Jose Mourinho

[stormfly]

I think a lot of players downed tools with Poch because he was himself becoming distant, sulking and had adopted a 'big brother' environment - by all accounts.

We never had an issue with these problems until the final year which tells you something went really wrong.

Jose has dug players out since he arrived, and with the way we've been playing it was always going to cause fracture - whether he was right to dig them out or not.

I agree, Poch was an arm around the shoulder type of guy at the beginning and they really responded to him. He stopped treating them like kings and they downed tools. Jose just got there faster because he wasn’t trying to be their dad and blow smoke up their asses. That shows a weak mentality to me. If they want to be winners, surely they can rise to the challenge?

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I agree, Poch was an arm around the shoulder type of guy at the beginning and they really responded to him. He stopped treating them like kings and they downed tools. Jose just got their faster because he wasn’t trying to be their dad and blow smoke up their asses. That shows a weak mentality to me. I they want to be winners, surely they can rise to the challenge?

I mean it’s not as simple as that at all.

Mabye they just didn’t get on with or respond well to Jose’s methods and personality, I saw how he was in the AON documentary and if I was a modern day player quite frankly I’d find him strange, he certainly isn’t everyone’s cup of tea and I think because over the years he’s more and more lost his aura and charm and swagger as well as his tactics becoming more and more outdated I think the fact he’s not everyone’s cup of tea has had more of an impact on how the groups of players have responded to him.

When he came to Chelsea first time round for example he was THE BIG next thing in management and he was this shiny new suave young confident foreign manager coming over to the Prem to take on Fergie and Wenger and with a war chest of money behind him he successfully did that, but times have very much changed since then.
The recent narrative at Chelsea 2nd time round and Man.U was focused on him falling out with people left right and centre and on his negative football rather than 1st time round at Chelsea the narrative was that he was this young confident amazingly talented coach who kept winning matches.

I wouldn’t say this group of players or modern day players are any weaker mentally than previous ones or ones of yesteryear but players in this day and age no doubt respond better to a softer and genuine approach and with Jose there is so much posturing and cloak and daggers etc I just don’t think modern day players respond to him as well as they used to.

 

[Spurrific]

The players didn’t just down tools under Poch, they were burnt out and so was he. Under Jose they have no inspiration, game plan, or leadership. We can’t “gut the squad” under him. He has never performed a rebuild at a club, successfully at least. He was a short-term appointment that - at best - is going to cost us £45m for a league cup, and at worst £45m (£60m if you include the money he wasted on Doherty, then however many millions we lose by not getting into the CL) for nothing. Some are buying into his scapegoating, which he does at every club.

Fans of every single club he’s previously managed speak about how he left them deep in the shit at the end, and some of you would trust him with a squad overhaul? We will be long-term fucked into oblivion if we give him free rein over the squad. We need a project manager again, this project died - he was brought in to push us over the final hurdle and deliver silverware, but we weren’t on the precipice like Levy thought. If we win the League Cup - we all have to cut our losses (Jose included) and end this experiment. The football is almost always worse than it was under AVB, nearly Santini levels of bad, and results are out the window. We haven’t beaten a semi-decent team since November (December if you count 10th place Arsenal who we’ve subsequently lost against).

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

The players didn’t just down tools under Poch, they were burnt out and so was he. Under Jose they have no inspiration, game plan, or leadership. We can’t “gut the squad” under him. He has never performed a rebuild at a club, successfully at least. He was a short-term appointment that - at best - is going to cost us £45m for a league cup, and at worst £45m (£60m if you include the money he wasted on Doherty, then however many millions we lose by not getting into the CL) for nothing. Some are buying into his scapegoating, which he does at every club.

Fans of every single club he’s previously managed speak about how he left them deep in the shit at the end, and some of you would trust him with a squad overhaul? We will be long-term fucked into oblivion if we give him free rein over the squad. We need a project manager again, this project died - he was brought in to push us over the final hurdle and deliver silverware, but we weren’t on the precipice like Levy thought. If we win the League Cup - we all have to cut our losses (Jose included) and end this experiment. The football is almost always worse than it was under AVB, nearly Santini levels of bad, and results are out the window. We haven’t beaten a semi-decent team since November (December if you count 10th place Arsenal who we’ve subsequently lost against).

Spot on mate

 

[neogenisis]

The players didn’t just down tools under Poch, they were burnt out and so was he. Under Jose they have no inspiration, game plan, or leadership. We can’t “gut the squad” under him. He has never performed a rebuild at a club, successfully at least. He was a short-term appointment that - at best - is going to cost us £45m for a league cup, and at worst £45m (£60m if you include the money he wasted on Doherty, then however many millions we lose by not getting into the CL) for nothing. Some are buying into his scapegoating, which he does at every club.

Fans of every single club he’s previously managed speak about how he left them deep in the shit at the end, and some of you would trust him with a squad overhaul? We will be long-term fucked into oblivion if we give him free rein over the squad. We need a project manager again, this project died - he was brought in to push us over the final hurdle and deliver silverware, but we weren’t on the precipice like Levy thought. If we win the League Cup - we all have to cut our losses (Jose included) and end this experiment. The football is almost always worse than it was under AVB, nearly Santini levels of bad, and results are out the window. We haven’t beaten a semi-decent team since November (December if you count 10th place Arsenal who we’ve subsequently lost against).

 

[Shadydan]

I mean it’s not as simple as that at all.

Mabye they just didn’t get on with or respond well to Jose’s methods and personality, I saw how he was in the AON documentary and if I was a modern day player quite frankly I’d find him strange, he certainly isn’t everyone’s cup of tea and I think because over the years he’s more and more lost his aura and charm and swagger as well as his tactics becoming more and more outdated I think the fact he’s not everyone’s cup of tea has had more of an impact on how the groups of players have responded to him.

When he came to Chelsea first time round for example he was THE BIG next thing in management and he was this shiny new suave young confident foreign manager coming over to the Prem to take on Fergie and Wenger and with a war chest of money behind him he successfully did that, but times have very much changed since then.
The recent narrative at Chelsea 2nd time round and Man.U was focused on him falling out with people left right and centre and on his negative football rather than 1st time round at Chelsea the narrative was that he was this young confident amazingly talented coach who kept winning matches.

I wouldn’t say this group of players or modern day players are any weaker mentally than previous ones or ones of yesteryear but players in this day and age no doubt respond better to a softer and genuine approach and with Jose there is so much posturing and cloak and daggers etc I just don’t think modern day players respond to him as well as they used to.

Don't want to be that guy but:

Spurs Amazon Documentary?

Episode 3 - Ndombele NOT eating

spurscommunity.co.uk

Spurs Amazon Documentary?

I like Danny Rose but his attitude is all wrong. He should of approached Jose and asked him what he needed to do to get back in the team, not bitch and question his decisions.

spurscommunity.co.uk

Spurs Amazon Documentary?

I like Danny Rose but his attitude is all wrong. He should of approached Jose and asked him what he needed to do to get back in the team, not bitch and question his decisions.

spurscommunity.co.uk

Sorry fish

 

[Shadydan]

The players didn’t just down tools under Poch, they were burnt out and so was he. Under Jose they have no inspiration, game plan, or leadership. We can’t “gut the squad” under him. He has never performed a rebuild at a club, successfully at least. He was a short-term appointment that - at best - is going to cost us £45m for a league cup, and at worst £45m (£60m if you include the money he wasted on Doherty, then however many millions we lose by not getting into the CL) for nothing. Some are buying into his scapegoating, which he does at every club.

Fans of every single club he’s previously managed speak about how he left them deep in the shit at the end, and some of you would trust him with a squad overhaul? We will be long-term fucked into oblivion if we give him free rein over the squad. We need a project manager again, this project died - he was brought in to push us over the final hurdle and deliver silverware, but we weren’t on the precipice like Levy thought. If we win the League Cup - we all have to cut our losses (Jose included) and end this experiment. The football is almost always worse than it was under AVB, nearly Santini levels of bad, and results are out the window. We haven’t beaten a semi-decent team since November (December if you count 10th place Arsenal who we’ve subsequently lost against).

Of course they didn't down tools, let's excuse these players for being tired:



Yet magically 15 days later they were all running their arses off against West Ham.

Fifteen.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Absolute batshit crazy thing is, we win tomorrow and West Ham lose, we’re 5th and 3 points off 4th with Everton the only team around us with an extra match to play.

This season needs to end. It’s going to kill me.

 

[midge]

Poch big brother method didnt work in his last few months with us
Jose tough love method didnt work these few months

No guarantee any manager can get this bunch to work.

Not sure I want the club I have supported for decades to be held ransom by a bunch of players who do not seem to feel proud wearing the jersey.

Jose history with ManU and Chelsea keeps getting dug up as proof he is passed it. Fat Frank with his expensive team did well and then fell apart for the same reason it seems. Fat Frank was getting results then suddenly he wasnt good enough for them for the same reason

‘Many players didn’t like how the manager spoke to them, and there were questions about his man-management’ – Miguel Delaney, The Independent.

Tuchel is getting them to play well similarly to what we had at the beginning of this season. Fat Frank did the same . But how long before the wheels fall off?

 

[Spurrific]

Of course they didn't down tools, let's excuse these players for being tired:



Yet magically 15 days later they were all running their arses off against West Ham.

Fifteen.

Because physically is the only way a person can be burnt out? Sometimes players need change, a catalyst, to spark them back into life - it came for us but has also went.

 

[NEVILLEB]

At Man Utd they complained that he didn't communicate well with the players and they felt in the cold when they weren't in his plans.

This was highlighted in the documentary when Danny Rose called him out on his treatment.

He clearly hasn't learned how to fix this issue.

The Dele situation is IMO *the* most clear reflection of what is wrong with Mourinho -- and mind you, I'm not saying Mo is entirely at fault.

But his bedside manner is woefully inflexible and hurts the team deeply when he treats all players to the same tough love that only works with some. To my eye, Dele has shown occasions of real flair when given the chance (not always, as you point out) - and an arm around him and a show of confidence from the manager (rather than a cold shoulder and harsh words) would've done much more to encourage Dele to flourish.

And when you poison several (Dele, Aurier, Winks) players in this way, you've just created a major problem in the dressing room.

I wonder if Dele was angry at the documentary and now he was portrayed. Being labelled ‘lazy’ in front of the world was probably not the best way of building a new relationship.

 

[Gingernut]

The players didn’t just down tools under Poch, they were burnt out and so was he. Under Jose they have no inspiration, game plan, or leadership. We can’t “gut the squad” under him. He has never performed a rebuild at a club, successfully at least. He was a short-term appointment that - at best - is going to cost us £45m for a league cup, and at worst £45m (£60m if you include the money he wasted on Doherty, then however many millions we lose by not getting into the CL) for nothing. Some are buying into his scapegoating, which he does at every club.

Fans of every single club he’s previously managed speak about how he left them deep in the shit at the end, and some of you would trust him with a squad overhaul? We will be long-term fucked into oblivion if we give him free rein over the squad. We need a project manager again, this project died - he was brought in to push us over the final hurdle and deliver silverware, but we weren’t on the precipice like Levy thought. If we win the League Cup - we all have to cut our losses (Jose included) and end this experiment. The football is almost always worse than it was under AVB, nearly Santini levels of bad, and results are out the window. We haven’t beaten a semi-decent team since November (December if you count 10th place Arsenal who we’ve subsequently lost against).

They did down tools. Lost interest in his methods and knew he wanted to leave. As another just posted...it didn't take long for them to start playing again and putting a bit of effort again

 

[NEVILLEB]

Poch said things would go bad if we didn’t invest and his prediction was right.

I don’t think any manager can succeed with the way the club is run above them.

 

[Shadydan]

Because physically is the only way a person can be burnt out? Sometimes players need change, a catalyst, to spark them back into life - it came for us but has also went.

Right...

 

[Spurrific]

They did down tools. Lost interest in his methods and knew he wanted to leave. As another just posted...it didn't take long for them to start playing again and putting a bit of effort again

This is just an easy excuse for people who are steadfast in their refusal to blame Jose for anything. They were mentally drained from the lack of new blood (Levy’s fault), mentally drained from losing the biggest game of their career, and physically drained from being a small squad pressing like mad men for the most part.

 

[neogenisis]

So, to just clarify.

1. The Manager is not good enough.
2. The players have not been good enough
3. The Hierarchy are not good enough.

Well fuck.

 

[Betha]

I'm sorry but that is patently untrue. Whilst JM was busy getting Ndombele up to speed, Winks was a virtual ever present in our midfield, along with Sissoko, in a team that took us to the top of the league. The match day threads were littered with posts about how "shit" he was, even to the point where I was defending him, saying he's not "shit," he's just not good enough for where we want to be. Yet he was still able to turn in good performances when he carried out the instructions given to him by the manager. The Leeds game was a prime example, where i felt he had an excellent game. That game in particular we pressed them high up the pitch, gave them avenues to pass into that WE wanted, then pounced to take the ball off them. Winks, alongside Hojbjerg was integral to that, giving us the platform to get 2 of the 3 goals by nicking the ball off them in dangerous areas.

This year Winks played in the first three games. Then he sat out the fourth, and played 17 mins in the fifth. After that he didn't play again until the fouteenth where he played 26 mins. Then he played the next three, sat out one, and played 45 mins in the twentieth game. He then sat out eight games, played in one, and sat out the last against Arsenal. So, in the league, he has started seven, and been a substitute in three.
In none of the games he started did he play with Sissoko.

Last season he played a lot with Sissoko, and although he were thrown under the bus quite a lot, especially while Sissoko had to cover for Aurier and Winks had to do it all by himself, he was better.

Furthermore, you are basically telling me I'm wrong by using an example that undermines my point. The Leedsgame was quite different to a lot of the other games this season. Winks is a player who is by far better with the ball, and not as a ballwinner. Playing him with Højbjerg will necessarily help, and playing on the front foot, instead of sitting deep and hoofing it long will also help. When we win the ball further up, and with the opposition not in balance, it's easier to be a positive player, than when you get the ball, 25 yards out, the opposition in full balance, and no clue whatsoever to what your teammates might be doing.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Don't want to be that guy but:

Spurs Amazon Documentary?

Episode 3 - Ndombele NOT eating

spurscommunity.co.uk

Spurs Amazon Documentary?

I like Danny Rose but his attitude is all wrong. He should of approached Jose and asked him what he needed to do to get back in the team, not bitch and question his decisions.

spurscommunity.co.uk

Spurs Amazon Documentary?

I like Danny Rose but his attitude is all wrong. He should of approached Jose and asked him what he needed to do to get back in the team, not bitch and question his decisions.

spurscommunity.co.uk

Sorry fish

For context that was my analysis after 3 episodes not after seeing all of the episodes and not after having had him as our manager for 2 seasons...

I still stand by what I said that Danny Rose didn’t go about that meeting with Jose in the best way there and that Jose handled that well and that his initial talks with Kane and Dele were world class, they were.

I said after the first 3 episodes he comes across ‘fairly ok’. you’ll also find that as time went on i said that Levy and Jose came across quite strange at times.

I didn’t say Jose is all bad and handles everything badly but that overall he’s not going to be every players cup of tea and so it has proved, I stand by that. Also love how obsessed with me you are to go back through my posts that far it’s cute ?.

Things aren’t just black and white and opinions can change as new evidence comes to light mate ?

 

[Gingernut]

This is just an easy excuse for people who are steadfast in their refusal to blame Jose for anything. They were mentally drained from the lack of new blood (Levy’s fault), mentally drained from losing the biggest game of their career, and physically drained from being a small squad pressing like mad men for the most part.

I blame him for a lot, but I also blame the players for their response to the situation. It is both issues.

 

[rez9000]

we don't but the good news here is the better players, or at least most influential, are remaining professional.

As Trix noted, most of those kicking up a stink are either likely to be off or are not that important going forward.

If we assume it's Dele, Sissoko, Aurier, Winks, Dier, etc - there's a good chance most will be gone this summer anyway.

Well, I certainly hope so.

I mean, the balls on some of these players to think they should be playing more or aren't playing the way they wish.

That is of real interest to me, but I can't find it. I've searched and I can't bleeding see it!

Where was it mentioned? I want to see what Trix said.