Jose Mourinho

[Spartanspurs]

Did anyone post the Lloris interview here? It felt like he had a dig at Jose in his first answer and if that is the case, you get the impression things really aren't good...

 

[glacierSpurs]

Some people on here are just treating players like robots that as if a manager selecting the best lineup and giving them the clearest instructions they will automatically be playing the right way, absolved of all faults.

How can the motivational factor rest solely on Mourinho when it really is up to the resolve of the individual players to act on it.

 

[the shelf]

There's no point anymore.

The football purists on here find him solely to blame and won't change their opinion.

We could bring Pep in and we still couldn't play good football because of the players at his disposal. I'd love to see what they'd say then.

We are progressively outplayed by teams with much less at their disposal than us so that argument doesn't hold up- Brighton made us look like footballing dinosaurs last week.

I hate watching this football it bores me to tears. And only an idiot who witnessed the end of Mourinho's era at Man United would think it was ever going to be different here.

The meltdown and fallout isn't far away believe me.

 

[commodoreLUNGE]

And again, we then return to the the same question: why then did they do the same to Poch?

We can keep going round this idea, but as yet, no one who seems to want to lay the blame at Mourinho's door has been able to come up with an adequate answer as to why it's happened to two very different managers in the space of three years.

It doesn't seem to happen elsewhere.

Chelsea change managers all the time. How come their players still seem to put in a shift?

West Ham - they may have been shit under Moyes, then Pellegrini, then Moyes again (until recently), but they didn't piss about on the pitch looking like their mothers had just been shot. They put in a shift.

Southampton got tonked 9-0 last season. What did they do? They pulled their socks up and worked and strove and put in the effort and dragged themselves back to their feet. Having been again tonked 9-0, I would, given the choice between which I thought more likely, Spurs to show gumption and get themselves back on their feet or Southampton, still put every penny I had on Southampton.

My God, Newcastle! They're managed by a man that huge swathes of people deride (not saying it's fair, just that they do) - do you see them refusing to put a shift in?

The key difference? The teams above, at the very least, have balls. Our poor little fragile egos don't 'believe' in the project? My heart bleeds! I can give them tens of thousands of reasons, every week, why their excuses should fall on the deafest of ears.

They need to pull their own socks up, not expect Poch or Mourinho or the next poor bastard who takes this poison chalice of a job to wipe their arses for them. They each need to grow a pair.

I’m going to try and answer the Poch question, and then also answer why I think they’ve downed tools for Mourinho too.

It’s worth noting that Poch got a lot out of these guys for a long time, so clearly they liked him and wanted to work hard for him, and something changed in those final months. Pochettino demanded loyalty and commitment to the team and to your teammates, but in the last 12 months of his tenure, whether it was strained relations with the board or something else, he stopped shooting down rumours about him leaving, and this culminated in his comments before the Champions League final about leaving if we won because it would be impossible to do any better. In my view, this tells the players 2 things:
1) The manager doesn’t have the same loyalty to the cause that he demands from his players - damaging the relationship.
2) I don’t think the players I have are good enough to be where we are - damaging confidence.

Almost no surprise then when we start the new season terribly and the sacking became inevitable.

Under Mourinho, I think it’s a combination of things.
1) Mistreatment of popular players, especially Alli - regardless of how out of form he has been. If someone treats one of your best mates badly in your eyes, you lose respect for them and you probably don’t listen to them or trust them as much. That’s pretty human behaviour, and these guys are still human after all, albeit very well paid ones that as fans, we would like them to to not be susceptible to such human behaviours, but that’s just our love for the club driving what are ultimately unrealistic expectations. They are still human beings regardless of the size of their salary.

2) Again related somewhat to Dele Alli, against Stoke, he tried a clever flick, and it resulted in a counter attack. Mourinho went ballistic, and even gave him a bollocking in the press after the game for giving the ball away. He’s practically not been seen since. The message I think this sends is “don’t give the ball away if you want to play in this team” which naturally will result in my view, in players being more conservative, because no one wants a public dressing down or to be dropped.
There is a massive difference between the Pep and Poch attitude of “if you give the ball away, win it back quickly” approach, and the “do not give the ball away” approach, and I think we play with the latter, which is ironic given how often we go long and bypass midfield.
Unfortunately, a touch line bollocking followed by a dressing down in the media will live longer in the memory than any message on the training ground or half time team talk, you can’t un-hear those things. Subsequently, I think that’s why we play backwards, sideways, horrendous football.

Finally, it’s worth noting that I don’t lay all the blame at the door of Mourinho for our current situation, a number of players haven’t reached the standard of play that they should have, but football management is multi-faceted and complicated job, and like all management roles in any industry, it is primarily a people management job, and I think on that front, he is largely failing, and if irreparable damage is done to his relationships with players, it is time to go.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Want to know what's really scary about the comments in that thread? They're the same comments on here.

People say Twitter is where brains go to die ...

?

 

[spursfan77]

They didn't let Poch down, as in reality they were and are not good enough.

Oh they did. The closing down stopped, the effort stopped. It’s exactly like it is now. Maybe we stopped the pressing game under Poch not because of a lack of instruction from the manager but the players just didn’t do it?

From what we’ve seen under Mourinho, it makes me think that is a lot more believable than we think. Anyway, this isn’t about Poch anymore. It’s about Mourinho and the players and both sets letting us down.

 

[Japhet]

I'm not quite in the mourinho out camp yet, he at least gets until the end of the season. Unfortunately Poch was right about a painful rebuild and Jose has had to pick up the pieces. I know he was backed in the transfer window but really only PEH and reggie have been the best out the bunch.

There's a fair few players that need to be moved on for various reasons. Some are just plain shit, others aren't at the level we need and the rest are too inconsistent or injury prone.

It won't happen overnight but we really need to be looking to move on sissoko, Davies, winks, lamela, lucas, sanchez, Rose.

Jose can only work with the players available, yes we have a group of players who would definitely get into most top teams but the rest are holding us back.

Had Jose been in charge when we were battling Leicester or Chelsea for the title then we would have won 1 of them.

Not if we were sitting in a low block and creating 2 chances every 90 minutes we wouldn't.

 

[glacierSpurs]

Also, Levy thinking he can get fucking 150 million for any player who slightly performs for us is detrimental to this club. We are never recuperating the 30 million we spent on Sissoko for example, he needs to accept that but he won't.

I will gladly drive him to other clubs for free. Getting him out of the club is already a gain on its own.

 

[mr ashley]

That's funny. Cos I feel the entire mentality of just about every player we have is wrong for the club too.

No idea how is coaching is responsible for the umpteen mental mistakes we see defensively. Today was Dier's turn (again) to do something catastrophically dumb.

Oh, and I think I lost count after the 30th min of how many simple misplaced passes there were.

Let's also not forget all the players just standing around like statues. Refusing to budge. Move. Or try.

But if it makes everyone feel better to say it is all down to one person. Fine. You're right. The players have stopped making even the smallest effort.

Bring in the most attack minded genius in the land and let's see if they can turn these pathetic babies into men. 'Cos one thing I can also guarantee you is this... whoever your dream manager is will NOT be backed. They will have to deal with the exact same set of weak minded losers.

We're in deep, deep shit. And sacking Jose will not be a magical solution some seem to think it'll be. That's not to say he won't be going. 'Cos I can't see how he stays at this point, as the players have completely given up.

But by all means... let's give them a pass. It's all the manager's fault that they can't focus or put in any effort or pretend to give a shit. All because of Jose's philosophy, they can no longer make a 2 yard pass. Or mark someone. Or run into open space. Or do even the simplest of things, like not kick a fucking player in the leg while sitting on your arse in the penalty area. I'm sure that had everything to do with the Jose philosophy of playing.

Give me a break.

You'll get your wish. I don't doubt that. But what you won't get is someone who will turn us into anything resembling what we were 4 years ago. Not with these players. Not with this chairman. And not in this financial climate that will cripple us for the next three or four years.

You’re 100% right that some of the players are the problem.
But ultimately the job of the manager (any manager) is to motivate the players to play above themselves. This group are all playing within themselves (apart from Kane and Son to a point).

The manager is also in charge of strategy and tactics.
He's had long enough to develop a coherent plan, and to sort the wheat from the chaff.
As I said in the ratings thread, Jose is either selecting players who don’t follow his instructions (bad), or he is selecting players who do follow his instructions (super bad)

The worst part of this is that if we sacked him today and brought in Allegri (for arguments sake), we know that we would still have to pick limited players such as:
dier/ Toby/Sanchez/Doherty/Davies/aurier in defence
And sissoko/Lucas/winks/lamela in midfield

The squad is full of flawed players

 

[blodge99]

When Jose came in, I wasn't too fussed. I didn't particularly like the 'Special One' charachter that he portrayed in the media, but was willing to give him a chance.
Over the first 12 months I found myself warming to him and although I wouldn't say I was enjoying all of the football I could tolerate it, as it seemed we had a proper plan (granted, that was mainly defend and hit on the counter, but it was working).

Sadly, things have unravlled pretty quickly and I don't see how he can turn it around now. Hes started throwing certain players under the bus and I don't think the players will put up with it for much longer.
The game has moved on dramatically in the last 20 years, and todays generation of snowflakes (and I hate that term!) aren't able to accept this type of conflict-management anymore.
A manc mate of mine text me during the game last saying similar, and how due to the cultural/attitude change of young footballers, there's no chance that Fergie would succeed today (that may be extreme but you get the gist).

Is it all Mourinho's fault?
Hell No.
Levy/Poch/the players are all to blame in different ways in my opinion.
To an extent, we are paying the price for that long period where we didn't buy anyone and refresh the squad (but that's for a different time and thread).

Do I think JM can turn it around? Not on current form.
Will he be sacked? Can we afford it? We all know Covid has battered the whole industry and we have been affected worse than most.
I genuinely wanted/thought it would work out but have come to the conclusion it won't and it would be best for all parties if he went (hardly rocket science i know )

 

[carpediem991]

To be fair to Jose, I think for the thing he wants to do he needs players with a strong mentality who does not cry when they get criticized.
Like loads of Hojbjergs and Kanes. But we don't have that in the slightest. Our weak players need a cuddle every night and before every game.

And Jose hasnt enough in his locker in todays game to adapt to that...

 

[Spunkmonkey]

All those slagging Dier off and saying he’s not good enough and should take some of the responsibility. Maybe I missed the bit where Jose brought Dier back in from the cold and made him his first choice centre back.

 

[riggi]

Want to know what's really scary about the comments in that thread? They're the same comments on here.

People say Twitter is where brains go to die ...

?

They’re just longer winded on here.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

All those slagging Dier off and saying he’s not good enough and should take some of the responsibility. Maybe I missed the bit where Jose brought Dier back in from the cold and made him his first choice centre back.

Yeah he should have ostracized him instead when he started making mistakes, another martyr to add to the list.

 

[Seafordian Spurs]

'Painful rebuild'

Might as well go with a manager who can work with the young talent we have like Skipp, Sess and Rodon etc and accept mercurial, inconsistent football for a while until it clicks into Poch era Mk2.

Arguably.

 

[the shelf]

To be fair to Jose, I think for the thing he wants to do he needs players with a strong mentality who does not cry when they get criticized.
Like loads of Hojbjergs and Kanes. But we don't have that in the slightest. Our weak players need a cuddle every night and before every game.

And Jose hasnt enough in his locker in todays game to adapt to that...

That is the modern game for you - our players are no more sensitive than any other teams' players.

You have to adapt your management style accordingly. Mourinho cannot do that as you rightly point out.

 

[E17yid]

'Painful rebuild'

Might as well go with a manager who can work with the young talent we have like Skipp, Sess and Rodon etc and accept mercurial, inconsistent football for a while until it clicks into Poch era Mk2.

Arguably.

That sounds like bliss at the moment.

 

[SUIYHA]

Most managers talk about playing "attacking" football but only a few are really genuinely good at it. I think there are some managers who do spend a lot of time on tactical training and trying to play really complex systems, but generally speaking I think the role of the manager is to create an environment that allows players to flourish - mentally and physically as much as anything else. If the result is a group of players that feel scared, nervous, demotivated and unfit, then that is a major red flag.

Liverpool have been on a poor run of form of late, but they always create plenty of chances to score every game. Their players make off the ball runs, they find space, they move the ball around quickly, they hassle and pressure the opposition when not in possession - teams feel like they have to play well to beat them. I am seeing none of that from us at the moment.

Talk all you want about how certain players are not good enough - the fact is that most of our squad are international footballers with Champions League experience. We're not West Brom or Burnley but we sure are playing like it at the moment. One or two meaningful attempts on goal per game, most of the game out of possession, no creativity, no flair. This is just nowhere near good enough.

It doesn't necessarily mean that Mourinho is a bad manager, but the manager is about being in the right time and place. In his past jobs he's had more money and resources than anyone else in the league and has done well to get big teams exert their dominance over their rivals - but he's never succeeded in taking an underdog up the table. At the time I felt it was time for Pochettino to go but Mourinho was a questionable fit to replace him and sadly I think that this appointment hasn't worked out.

People talk about whether winning the League Cup is worth this. I don't. Winning the title or doing something I've never seen us do before would be, but just getting a single domestic trophy, no. And quite frankly, the way things are going we are going to get murdered by Man City in the final anyway.

If I'm Levy then I'm on the phone to Kane and Son this morning asking what they're thinking. If either say they want Mourinho gone then I'd sack him today.

 

[Gassin's finest]

So, how's it going in here, Daniel...

... ah.

 

[max cady]

All those slagging Dier off and saying he’s not good enough and should take some of the responsibility. Maybe I missed the bit where Jose brought Dier back in from the cold and made him his first choice centre back.

Why, Dier has proved over and over again he is not a center half.