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Financial Results - club announcement

Stuart Leathercock

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
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When Levy says every dime is brought back to the Club/team, what does it mean? How much money is sat off to pay back the stadium over the loan period? Is this a fixed sum every year or are they taking out more money to pay it down faster if income is higher?

Because if the latter, technically is putting money back to the club, it is also technically putting more money in to the owners when they eventually sell. Just asking cous i really do not know how it works.
No money is sat off to pay back the stadium.... In the last set of accounts the debt has increased and the cash the club is holding has decreased. You will be able to see exactly what is being paid off/set aside year on year by looking at these two numbers in the accounts.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,703
105,008
I still don’t get the ENIC end game. I mean ultimately that’s Joe Lewis end game. I mean what is he 84 or something. What’s the point of having a football club in 20 years that might have a £1bn turnover if you’re not around to see it or enjoy it. The man has 200 companies. But THFC is probably the only one that he could do something really unique at make history a legacy and make a lot of people very happy. I’d just love to know what he’s really thinking about the club.

I think he has no emotional attachment to THFC. His first love after his business are his art collections. He'd rather spend money on them, and has, than on the football club, I am afraid.
 

Stuart Leathercock

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Jul 20, 2021
522
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Everyone is saying that the timing of Covid sucked with the stadium only just opening, but I actually wonder if it could work in our favour.

Under Levy we are a particularly well run club from a financial perspective, but we had to be even more prudent while the stadium was being built and financed. Hopefully now the shackles are off and the additional revenue streams from our stadium puts us in a great position moving forward.

So while the positive impact of the stadium has been delayed, and we have certainly been financially hit with Covid, we are nevertheless coming out of it in a far better position than most clubs who have been running very high wage bill ratios for years.

What better time for Paratici to rebuild our squad when we have a star manager to attract top players and so many clubs who will actually need to sell players they would normally never consider moving on due to their current financial circumstances.
Of all clubs in the PL Covid worked out worst for us. Our stadium generates more as a proportion of income than any other club in the PL. Just in the 2021 numbers our match day revenue is down probably £120m on where it would be with an open stadium and commercial revenue down probably £10m to £20m. Our operational costs were down about £45m (no need to buy food and drink and pay for catering staff and security, etc when stadium is closed) so overall we were about £85m to £95m down on where we could've been.... and that is profit as opposed to revenue. Most owners in the PL can load more debt onto their clubs, or inject equity into the club.

The club with the biggest debt in the PL having to take on more debt isn't a good thing. That same club, who have the biggest potential stadium income which is also the highest proportion of their turnover compared to all other PL clubs having to close their stadium for pretty much a whole year makes it a disaster.
 
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Stuart Leathercock

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
522
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I think he has no emotional attachment to THFC. His first love after his business are his art collections. He'd rather spend money on them, and has, than on the football club, I am afraid.
IMO both of those two things are investments as opposed to loves. His art collection is just another thing he owns that is growing in value. A large majority of his art collection is sat in Geneva Freeport, appreciating in value with nobody being able to see it.
 

Spursberg

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2019
1,690
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No money is sat off to pay back the stadium.... In the last set of accounts the debt has increased and the cash the club is holding has decreased. You will be able to see exactly what is being paid off/set aside year on year by looking at these two numbers in the accounts.
ok, so if they put in more money to downpay the stadium faster, which ofc is beneficial for Enic, they can still say money goes to the club, but just to pay down loan and then use less on transfers? :)

For an owner that has not invested 1 gbp of their own money in to the club, i will forever doubt that they have the "clubs" best interest when it comes to this, and downpayment as fast as possible to decrease their loan and have the possibility to sell for a higher price
would be what they really want. Man you can not help being sceptical when it comes to these corporate silver tongues :p
 

Delboy75

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2021
3,935
10,279
I simply don’t understand how we are possibly in a worse position With cash flow. The revenue loss was £160m the cash loan is £250m. So unless we’ve suddenly developed extra expenses I don’t see how we possibly are. I know wage bill has gone up a bit, I believe the interest payments went down a bit. So there’s no other major change in expenditure in the last 2 years. If there is please explain where it is ?
 

Stuart Leathercock

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Jul 20, 2021
522
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HI Stuart, I know you are an expert on this kind of thing
So do you mean our cash flow worsened by 328m or 250 - 78m
Just how does the loan fit in with cash flow
Cash balance was £226m at end of 2020 accounts. Now £148 million at end of 2021 period. This is still a very healthy cash balance (2nd highest in PL behind Man Utd and that is before any other club has declared 2021 accounts, which will cause all clubs to have a large net cash outflow). This gives us wiggle room and the ability to take another hit from something like another shorter term lock down and/or could be used for transfer funds (though I think the club will definitely keep back a reasonable portion of cash to hedge against the possibility of a lock down happening).

In that same period gross debt has increased by about £23 million. The club are effectively £101 million worse off than we were a year ago (£706m net debt versus £605m net debt a year ago). Which probably pretty much directly relates to the lost match day and commercial revenue from the stadium minus the reduced operating cost due to the stadium being closed.

About £177m of the £250m loan would've been needed to pay back the BoE for the original loan and charges. I think the BoE loan was taken and paid back within the same accounting year (I think taken in early June and paid back via the new loan at end of May).

I'm unclear on the terms of the new £250m loan and whether it is a facility that can be drawn down as and when we need it (as some of our previous credit facilities have allowed) or whether it has all landed in our accounts already. Looking at the lowish increase in gross debt and the significant decrease in cash, I suspect that some of the facility hasn't yet been drawn down. However I have only seen the snippet on the club website and skimmed through the Swiss Ramble analysis so I can't really say on this either way.
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Feb 1, 2005
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IMO both of those two things are investments as opposed to loves. His art collection is just another thing he owns that is growing in value. A large majority of his art collection is sat in Geneva Freeport, appreciating in value with nobody being able to see it.
I think you're right. I mean, it's obviously a guess, we can't possibly know for sure, but to me it feels like anything and everything he dips his toes into is designed to make big profits. I guess he might well enjoy looking at his latest Klimt or Picasso but the real buzz is seeing his investment flourish so it's highly likely he sees Spurs the same way.

We all like a tickle :D
 

Delboy75

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2021
3,935
10,279
Cash balance was £226m at end of 2020 accounts. Now £148 million at end of 2021 period. This is still a very healthy cash balance (2nd highest in PL behind Man Utd and that is before any other club has declared 2021 accounts, which will cause all clubs to have a large net cash outflow). This gives us wiggle room and the ability to take another hit from something like another shorter term lock down and/or could be used for transfer funds (though I think the club will definitely keep back a reasonable portion of cash to hedge against the possibility of a lock down happening).

In that same period gross debt has increased by about £23 million. The club are effectively £101 million worse off than we were a year ago (£706m net debt versus £605m net debt a year ago). Which probably pretty much directly relates to the lost match day and commercial revenue from the stadium minus the reduced operating cost due to the stadium being closed.

About £177m of the £250m loan would've been needed to pay back the BoE for the original loan and charges. I think the BoE loan was taken and paid back within the same accounting year (I think taken in early June and paid back via the new loan at end of May).

I'm unclear on the terms of the new £250m loan and whether it is a facility that can be drawn down as and when we need it (as some of our previous credit facilities have allowed) or whether it has all landed in our accounts already. Looking at the lowish increase in gross debt and the significant decrease in cash, I suspect that some of the facility hasn't yet been drawn down. However I have only seen the snippet on the club website and skimmed through the Swiss Ramble analysis so I can't really say on this either way.

But my basic point stands and as I understand the £250m is not a bank loan it’s on exactly the same terms as the stadium financing by the same investors. As you say the cash balance is very healthy. I’ve no idea on exact timings with Boe loan or whether all the £250m is on the cash balance. If it isn’t the point is it’s there if we need it and my fundamental original point stands it just might not all be showing on the current accounts.

Do you know what cash balance was at end of 18/19 then you could probably work it out ?
 

Stuart Leathercock

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
522
1,422
But my basic point stands and as I understand the £250m is not a bank loan it’s on exactly the same terms as the stadium financing by the same investors. As you say the cash balance is very healthy. I’ve no idea on exact timings with Boe loan or whether all the £250m is on the cash balance. If it isn’t the point is it’s there if we need it and my fundamental original point stands it just might not all be showing on the current accounts.

Do you know what cash balance was at end of 18/19 then you could probably work it out ?
Cash balances and losses are very different things. For example if we sign a players for £100m on an average of 5 year contracts then for those players we would amortise them by £20m per year in our accounts (contributing to the costs column for the club). However the payment terms for the transfer fees for those very same players could be 50% in year 1, 30% in year 2 and 20% in year 3. The impact on the club's cash flow is very different to the impact in terms of profit/loss. Make sense?

Unfortunately it will be difficult to tell the story with this £250m financing until our accounts are published again in another year's time.
 

ShelfWatcher

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2021
3,169
4,814
Cash balance was £226m at end of 2020 accounts. Now £148 million at end of 2021 period. This is still a very healthy cash balance (2nd highest in PL behind Man Utd and that is before any other club has declared 2021 accounts, which will cause all clubs to have a large net cash outflow). This gives us wiggle room and the ability to take another hit from something like another shorter term lock down and/or could be used for transfer funds (though I think the club will definitely keep back a reasonable portion of cash to hedge against the possibility of a lock down happening).

In that same period gross debt has increased by about £23 million. The club are effectively £101 million worse off than we were a year ago (£706m net debt versus £605m net debt a year ago). Which probably pretty much directly relates to the lost match day and commercial revenue from the stadium minus the reduced operating cost due to the stadium being closed.

About £177m of the £250m loan would've been needed to pay back the BoE for the original loan and charges. I think the BoE loan was taken and paid back within the same accounting year (I think taken in early June and paid back via the new loan at end of May).

I'm unclear on the terms of the new £250m loan and whether it is a facility that can be drawn down as and when we need it (as some of our previous credit facilities have allowed) or whether it has all landed in our accounts already. Looking at the lowish increase in gross debt and the significant decrease in cash, I suspect that some of the facility hasn't yet been drawn down. However I have only seen the snippet on the club website and skimmed through the Swiss Ramble analysis so I can't really say on this either way.
Thanks for info. I think the whole situation will be a lot clearer after next year's figures. Assuming no more Lockdown, or large loans
 

Delboy75

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2021
3,935
10,279
Cash balances and losses are very different things. For example if we sign a players for £100m on an average of 5 year contracts then for those players we would amortise them by £20m per year in our accounts (contributing to the costs column for the club). However the payment terms for the transfer fees for those very same players could be 50% in year 1, 30% in year 2 and 20% in year 3. The impact on the club's cash flow is very different to the impact in terms of profit/loss. Make sense?

Unfortunately it will be difficult to tell the story with this £250m financing until our accounts are published again in another year's time.

Stuart I completely understand what you are saying. And without going over the last 2/3 years in fine detail it’s impossible to get a totally accurate picture. But another basic way of looking it is the revenue from the 2 effected seasons is £750m if you add the £250m that gives you £1bn. Divide that by 2 and the cash available/generated/ in your pocket however you want to term it is £500m. Which is better than our CL final season. So unless we have some other major losses besides Covid we should in theory be in a very decent position.
 

CoopsieDeadpool

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Jun 8, 2012
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The club with the biggest debt in the PL having to take on more debt isn't a good thing. That same club, who have the biggest potential stadium income which is also the highest proportion of their turnover compared to all other PL clubs having to close their stadium for pretty much a whole year makes it a disaster.


Good times.
 

Stuart Leathercock

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
522
1,422
Stuart I completely understand what you are saying. And without going over the last 2/3 years in fine detail it’s impossible to get a totally accurate picture. But another basic way of looking it is the revenue from the 2 effected seasons is £750m if you add the £250m that gives you £1bn. Divide that by 2 and the cash available/generated/ in your pocket however you want to term it is £500m. Which is better than our CL final season. So unless we have some other major losses besides Covid we should in theory be in a very decent position.
If only things were that simple....

I always prefer to look at the accounts to see how healthy any business is (the accounts exist for a reason ;))

End 2019. Cash and cash equivalents: £123m. Gross debt: £658m. Net debt: £534m.
End 2020. Cash and cash equivalents: £226m. Gross debt: £831m. Net debt: £605m
End 2021. Cash and cash equivalents: £148m. Gross debt: £852m. Net debt: £706m

We have circa 20% more cash than we had at the end of 2019 but we have circa 30% more debt.

As you can see from the above the past two years we have been burning through a lot more money they we have been generating.... 2020 - £173m more debt but cash only up £103m (£70m more outgoings than incomings). 2021 - Only £21m more in debt but £78m less in cash (£99m more outgoings than incomings).


We had far more cash available to spend after the year we got to the CL final (mainly because we had so little in the way of committed outgoings due to our spending being so low in the years prior to then).
 

davidmatzdorf

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Jun 7, 2004
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I think he has no emotional attachment to THFC. His first love after his business are his art collections. He'd rather spend money on them, and has, than on the football club, I am afraid.
Like Levy, Lewis has been a Spurs supporter since childhood. Not being telepathic, I don't know his current emotional state, but he grew up as a Spurs supporter.
 

davidmatzdorf

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Jun 7, 2004
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ok, so if they put in more money to downpay the stadium faster, which ofc is beneficial for Enic, they can still say money goes to the club, but just to pay down loan and then use less on transfers? :)
I don't see why ENIC would use cash on hand to reduce long term stadium debt. Interest rates on the stadium debt are low, because the facilities were secured during a time of low rates. The cash is needed to run the club and to engage in player trading (transfers). You don't want to reduce long-term low-interest debt - you want to reduce short-term expensive debt first.

More importantly, the stadium development isn't finished. The housing and the hotel - Phase 3 of the stadium project - are intended to be profit-making developments and I very much expect the capital receipts from them to be used to reduce the stadium debt.

That is a few years in the future - the planning applications are underway now. Using cash now to do what those developments are intended to do in the near future would make no sense.
 
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spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,703
105,008
Cash balance was £226m at end of 2020 accounts. Now £148 million at end of 2021 period. This is still a very healthy cash balance (2nd highest in PL behind Man Utd and that is before any other club has declared 2021 accounts, which will cause all clubs to have a large net cash outflow). This gives us wiggle room and the ability to take another hit from something like another shorter term lock down and/or could be used for transfer funds (though I think the club will definitely keep back a reasonable portion of cash to hedge against the possibility of a lock down happening).

In that same period gross debt has increased by about £23 million. The club are effectively £101 million worse off than we were a year ago (£706m net debt versus £605m net debt a year ago). Which probably pretty much directly relates to the lost match day and commercial revenue from the stadium minus the reduced operating cost due to the stadium being closed.

About £177m of the £250m loan would've been needed to pay back the BoE for the original loan and charges. I think the BoE loan was taken and paid back within the same accounting year (I think taken in early June and paid back via the new loan at end of May).

I'm unclear on the terms of the new £250m loan and whether it is a facility that can be drawn down as and when we need it (as some of our previous credit facilities have allowed) or whether it has all landed in our accounts already. Looking at the lowish increase in gross debt and the significant decrease in cash, I suspect that some of the facility hasn't yet been drawn down. However I have only seen the snippet on the club website and skimmed through the Swiss Ramble analysis so I can't really say on this either way.

Seems it can. It was used to pay off £50m of the Merrill Lynch loan. (P32 of the accounts).
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
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I'm unclear on the terms of the new £250m loan and whether it is a facility that can be drawn down as and when we need it (as some of our previous credit facilities have allowed) or whether it has all landed in our accounts already. Looking at the lowish increase in gross debt and the significant decrease in cash, I suspect that some of the facility hasn't yet been drawn down. However I have only seen the snippet on the club website and skimmed through the Swiss Ramble analysis so I can't really say on this either way.
I recall reading that it was a draw-down facility, but I can't remember where. I wouild expect it to be a draw-down facility. Development finance, long and short-term, is usually done that way, to minimise interest charges, even in times of low interest rates. Lenders generally expect it.
 

Stuart Leathercock

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
522
1,422
I recall reading that it was a draw-down facility, but I can't remember where. I wouild expect it to be a draw-down facility. Development finance, long and short-term, is usually done that way, to minimise interest charges, even in times of low interest rates. Lenders generally expect it.
Spursfan77 has provided the info above..... Looks like 175m (probably plus some costs) was used to pay off BoE, 50m (probably plus some costs) to pay off loan from Merrills and the remaining £21m added to our gross debt (and assumedly cash) position.
 

SirHarryHotspur

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
5,253
7,849
Regardless of what people think about ENIC, Levy & Lewis and the way they run the club , employment wise it has certainly grown in the last four years.
2017
Players and football administration staff 198
Administration staff 159
Retail and distribution staff 82
Total 439

2021
Players and football administration staff 274
Administration staff 315
Retail and distribution staff 83
Total 672
 
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