Financial Fair Play (general thread)

[jurgen]

Unless my hearing is bad (which it may well be) this dude on the TV (Richard Masters) just said that they expedited the Everton charge. Now I know nothing about the legal aspect but logic tells me that the one with more complications should be the one expedited.

I bet my house on it that Man City and Chelsea don't get settled within the next 4 years

The stakes are also significantly higher, because in Everton and Forest's case the breach is there in the figures, and hopefully from now on it's clear that you need to stay stringently within them or you get punished. Pretty straightforward barring any whining from the clubs about how hard done by they are.

In City's case not only is it more hard to prove, but it's them actively working against the integrity of the competition to undermine and circumvent those very rules that are punishing Everton.

Based on that you can only imagine a very severe penalty if they do (rightfully) get done, should be more than a points deduction.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

and it will be one date of many over the next 10 years.

I want to see Everton gone but fair is fair. City and Chelsea have the finances to tie up proceeding for the next 8-10 years whilst Everton do not. I though the whole point of FFP was to level the playing field? Clearly this is not the case where City and Chelsea were charge before Everton but Everton have already received a punishment and facing a second round of punishments.
If this does not highlight the corruption in the PL then I don't know what will!

Don't quite get how they drag it out for 8-10 years , once the commission announces it's verdict and any penalty as in the Everton case , City then will have 28 days or it may be less to put in an appeal, the appeals panel then considers the appeal and makes it's desicion , their desicion is final that's it no further appeals to CAS or anywhere else.
Daily Mail reported that the date for the hearing will be late autumn this year but how good their info is nobody knows.

 

[Dr Know]

Don't quite get how they drag it out for 8-10 years , once the commission announces it's verdict and any penalty as in the Everton case , City then will have 28 days or it may be less to put in an appeal, the appeals panel then considers the appeal and makes it's desicion , their desicion is final that's it no further appeals to CAS or anywhere else.
Daily Mail reported that the date for the hearing will be late autumn this year but how good their info is nobody knows.

Obviously the 8-10 years was an exaggeration on my part. The point was, they have the money to hire layers to work the system and as @jurgen mentioned above, circumvent the rules. I only have an opinion to offer and I'm no legal expert but I feel if this was Crystal Palace charged with over 100 breaches, they would have been punished/cleared (whatever the outcome) by now. The oil guys pump a lot of money into the game and with no evidence what so ever, I will still say that a palm is being greased to have their favour.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Obviously the 8-10 years was an exaggeration on my part. The point was, they have the money to hire layers to work the system and as @jurgen mentioned above, circumvent the rules. I only have an opinion to offer and I'm no legal expert but I feel if this was Crystal Palace charged with over 100 breaches, they would have been punished/cleared (whatever the outcome) by now. The oil guys pump a lot of money into the game and with no evidence what so ever, I will still say that a palm is being greased to have their favour.

Are you saying that the head of the Premier League Independent Commission is open to being bribed , you need to break cover of the internet and accuse him of that, here is his address.

Murray Rosen KC

Murray Rosen KC FCIArb brings unique experience and expertise to dispute solutions.

www.4newsquare.com

 

[Finchyid]

Are you saying that the head of the Premier League Independent Commission is open to being bribed , you need to break cover of the internet and accuse him of that, here is his address.

Murray Rosen KC

Murray Rosen KC FCIArb brings unique experience and expertise to dispute solutions.

www.4newsquare.com

No but they are paying a bloke £10k per hour to sort their case, they had uefas overturned. I just can’t see city getting done for it, nor Chelsea for that matter

 

[Dr Know]

Are you saying that the head of the Premier League Independent Commission is open to being bribed , you need to break cover of the internet and accuse him of that, here is his address.

Murray Rosen KC

Murray Rosen KC FCIArb brings unique experience and expertise to dispute solutions.

www.4newsquare.com

Never heard of the guy to be honest. Do you think the FA/PL (people in charge) are all clean?

We do tend to talk a lot about the Italians being the most corrupt but I’m sure it’s in the UK too.

 

[littlewilly]

Obviously the 8-10 years was an exaggeration on my part. The point was, they have the money to hire layers to work the system and as @jurgen mentioned above, circumvent the rules. I only have an opinion to offer and I'm no legal expert but I feel if this was Crystal Palace charged with over 100 breaches, they would have been punished/cleared (whatever the outcome) by now. The oil guys pump a lot of money into the game and with no evidence what so ever, I will still say that a palm is being greased to have their favour.

Yes. It’s clear you’re not a layer.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I am not up on the charges pending against Man City - but I thought a lot of them had to do with how much money the club funneled in vie dodgy sponsorship deals.*

That is different than the profit/loss test that Everton, and now NCFC are facing - these new cases are pretty straight forward and deal with the clubs own public books. (ETA - a little reading discloses a new rule implemented by PL last year requires a hearing within 12 weeks - that rule does not apply to City).


* Summary of what I found:

City’s charges include accusations of failing to disclose accurate financial information, “in particular with respect to its revenue (including sponsorship revenue), its related parties and its operating costs”, and not fully providing managerial remuneration details for a four-year period that saw Roberto Mancini at the helm.

City have also been charged with breaching UEFA’s financial fair play (FFP) rules, as well as the Premier League’s PSR. A final layer of litigation comes from the Premier League’s claims that City did not cooperate fully with investigations in “the utmost good faith”.


The other thing to remember about City - they have litigated much of this with UEFA. PL rules are not identical, but similar. But, City fought, and won, these charges on appeal. SO, they are prepared to do battle with PL over this - making this a more complicated hearing.

 

[allatsea]

I am not up on the charges pending against Man City - but I thought a lot of them had to do with how much money the club funneled in vie dodgy sponsorship deals.*

That is different than the profit/loss test that Everton, and now NCFC are facing - these new cases are pretty straight forward and deal with the clubs own public books. (ETA - a little reading discloses a new rule implemented by PL last year requires a hearing within 12 weeks - that rule does not apply to City).


* Summary of what I found:

City’s charges include accusations of failing to disclose accurate financial information, “in particular with respect to its revenue (including sponsorship revenue), its related parties and its operating costs”, and not fully providing managerial remuneration details for a four-year period that saw Roberto Mancini at the helm.

City have also been charged with breaching UEFA’s financial fair play (FFP) rules, as well as the Premier League’s PSR. A final layer of litigation comes from the Premier League’s claims that City did not cooperate fully with investigations in “the utmost good faith”.


The other thing to remember about City - they have litigated much of this with UEFA. PL rules are not identical, but similar. But, City fought, and won, these charges on appeal. SO, they are prepared to do battle with PL over this - making this a more complicated hearing.

If City win we may as well all give up. Cancel all the FFP stuff and just let clubs do as they want. Unfortunately for City and fortunately for us I reckon this is where the Government will step in an enforce a proper FFP.

 

[superted4]

I am not up on the charges pending against Man City - but I thought a lot of them had to do with how much money the club funneled in vie dodgy sponsorship deals.*

That is different than the profit/loss test that Everton, and now NCFC are facing - these new cases are pretty straight forward and deal with the clubs own public books. (ETA - a little reading discloses a new rule implemented by PL last year requires a hearing within 12 weeks - that rule does not apply to City).


* Summary of what I found:

City’s charges include accusations of failing to disclose accurate financial information, “in particular with respect to its revenue (including sponsorship revenue), its related parties and its operating costs”, and not fully providing managerial remuneration details for a four-year period that saw Roberto Mancini at the helm.

City have also been charged with breaching UEFA’s financial fair play (FFP) rules, as well as the Premier League’s PSR. A final layer of litigation comes from the Premier League’s claims that City did not cooperate fully with investigations in “the utmost good faith”.


The other thing to remember about City - they have litigated much of this with UEFA. PL rules are not identical, but similar. But, City fought, and won, these charges on appeal. SO, they are prepared to do battle with PL over this - making this a more complicated hearing.

I don’t believe City ‘won’. They took it to CAS who threw it out on a timescale technicality. So whilst it was never upheld they were never proven innocent.

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

Unless my hearing is bad (which it may well be) this dude on the TV (Richard Masters) just said that they expedited the Everton charge. Now I know nothing about the legal aspect but logic tells me that the one with more complications should be the one expedited.

I bet my house on it that Man City and Chelsea don't get settled within the next 4 years

Where do you live

 

[razor1981]

I don’t believe City ‘won’. They took it to CAS who threw it out on a timescale technicality. So whilst it was never upheld they were never proven innocent.

I might be wrong, but I think that UEFA was also unable to use any of Der Spiegel's 'footyleaks' evidence against City as it had been obtained illegally, and UEFA's own rules therefore meant they couldn't touch it.

The Premier League's rules, on the other hand, explicitly state that they can use any and all evidence available, irrespective of how it was obtained - and with no time-barring.

This means that City will have an even harder time defending themselves this time around.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

I don’t believe City ‘won’. They took it to CAS who threw it out on a timescale technicality. So whilst it was never upheld they were never proven innocent.

Correct , they were found guilty but not of the most serious charges where UEFA lacked concrete evidence , the PL must know that but have still gone ahead with far more charges so maybe they have uncovered more evidence.

https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Award_6785___internet__.pdf

 

[Trix]

and it will be one date of many over the next 10 years.

I want to see Everton gone but fair is fair. City and Chelsea have the finances to tie up proceeding for the next 8-10 years whilst Everton do not. I though the whole point of FFP was to level the playing field? Clearly this is not the case where City and Chelsea were charge before Everton but Everton have already received a punishment and facing a second round of punishments.
If this does not highlight the corruption in the PL then I don't know what will!

Same in every walk of life mate, it's not Premier league exclusive.

 

[Trix]

No but they are paying a bloke £10k per hour to sort their case, they had uefas overturned. I just can’t see city getting done for it, nor Chelsea for that matter

So you and others keep saying. Before that it was FFP as a whole was a joke and not worth the paper it was written on.

It will all happen in time, they can't run from it forever.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

No but they are paying a bloke £10k per hour to sort their case, they had uefas overturned. I just can’t see city getting done for it, nor Chelsea for that matter

According to The Mail its £5k per hour , regardless City were found guilty by CAS of breaching UEFA FFP but on lesser charges so you would think they are going to be found guilty on at least one charge by the PL commission , who may deem that is worthy of a points deduction. Appropriately City have appointed Lord Pannick KC to defend them , may be something in that name.

 

[McArchibald]

So you and others keep saying. Before that it was FFP as a whole was a joke and not worth the paper it was written on.

It will all happen in time, they can't run from it forever.

My guess is they'll drag it out until a moment they consider it opportune to take the punishment - like the end of a season in which they've already lost the title but still qualify for the CL.
In the interim, they will have illegally inflated the club to a size which can sustain the expenditures on its own. A size they would never ever have obtained by sticking to the rulebook...

 

[archiewasking]

If City win we may as well all give up. Cancel all the FFP stuff and just let clubs do as they want. Unfortunately for City and fortunately for us I reckon this is where the Government will step in an enforce a proper FFP.

The government step in and enforce a proper anything !!

If only.....

 

[Tucker]

If City win we may as well all give up. Cancel all the FFP stuff and just let clubs do as they want. Unfortunately for City and fortunately for us I reckon this is where the Government will step in an enforce a proper FFP.

Step on the toes of the oil and gas countries at a time of global instability? Never gonna happen.

 

[allatsea]

Step on the toes of the oil and gas countries at a time of global instability? Never gonna happen.

Your most probably right but there are elections to be won and such a move would be a real fan favourite.