Eric Dier

[Hoopspur]

Anybody with two eyes could have written that post. By Twitter style opinions I assume you mean opinions you disagree with?

Did you read the last thing that I wrote? That I appreciate his time here but the fact that he seems to be well liked at the club and works hard shouldn't dictate whether he stays here or not. His play should dictate that.

Nasty and shocking? How? I think Dier's play over the past decade has generally been nasty and shocking. Under Poch. Mourinho. Conte. Is the truth nasty and shocking?

Spurs aren't a charity for nice guys. They are a football club and their job is to win matches. He should be treated with the utmost respect for the decade plus he's played here then shown the door. We need to move on.

I wasn't referencing your post - you seem to think it was. It was others using much worse terms than anything you wrote. My thoughts on Eric Dier do not have anything to do with the stuff where the language used against him is pretty unacceptable, whatever you think of him or his abilities. If people cannot put forward a reasoned argument without referring to him as a pile of shit and other such terms then that is exactly twitter style.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

To be fair they all wanted another first choice CB brought in to take his place as well.

I like Dier and have said multiple times I wouldn't object to him being a squad player. The thing that's changed though is Ange. He will be asked to do something completely different now, and a high line exposes his weaknesses of lack of pace and mobility even further.

Again if he's kept on then fine, I'd rather him than Sanchez and Tanganga, but we certainly won't be playing to his strengths this season and that's worrying.

It was a similar situation when AVB arrived and Dawson opted to fight for his place rather than accepting the new system wasn't for him. Despite his lack of pace, he ended up making a decent contribution while Kaboul (quicker and more suited to the high line) was injured for half the season.

Dier has the added bonus of being able to fill in at RB or CDM, as well as CB, so he could be a very useful squad player while we rebuild.

 

[Trix]

It was a similar situation when AVB arrived and Dawson opted to fight for his place rather than accepting the new system wasn't for him. Despite his lack of pace, he ended up making a decent contribution while Kaboul (quicker and more suited to the high line) was injured for half the season.

Dier has the added bonus of being able to fill in at RB or CDM, as well as CB, so he could be a very useful squad player while we rebuild.

Been a long time since he's done that. Do you really think he can still do it adequately?

 

[Japhet]

For my money, everybody gets at least half a free pass after playing God awful football under Mourinho and Conte. I'll be surprised if Dier makes it tbh, mainly through things beyond his control, but stranger things have happened and Ange has a totally different approach.

 

[Phil_2.0]

Is he really that loyal? It's not like anybody has been interested in buying him for 6 or 7 years now. There was also rumours he was trying to force his way out when Pochettino realized he wasn't good enough. He was mainly on the bench before Mourinho got here and would have left earlier had he not had that injury.

He is a bad player, he has been a bad player for a while. I am hoping all this weird support in this thread is people forget in the summer when we haven't seen him play for a while that he is quite poor. Not very athletic, not particular good on the ball, goes quiet when things are going wrong. He just played 33 games for a team that conceded 63 goals. He was our worst player last year bar Lloris.

Like I said in a previous post, normally I wouldn't mind keeping a squad man like Dier around, even if they are weak because 500 minutes a season of Dier won't affect our results too much at the end of the season BUT he has been part of too many failed regimes and is part of a poor leadership group that has to be dismantled in the most ruthless way.

Hes a good guy but most fans hate him as a player.

 

[Thenewcat]

There are some things that Dier can’t improve- he isn’t suddenly going to become quicker or more athletic. But his confidence and fitness can certainly improve, and there are still areas where I think he can be coached as a CB - he has still only been one for a few years and not with hands on coaches to improve him. I think he could be an adequate reserve in Ange’s system, as long as he is paired with a quick partner. We’ve seen plenty of slower CBs succeed in high lines, but you most have cover pace somewhere

 

[alfie103]

There are some things that Dier can’t improve- he isn’t suddenly going to become quicker or more athletic. But his confidence and fitness can certainly improve, and there are still areas where I think he can be coached as a CB - he has still only been one for a few years and not with hands on coaches to improve him. I think he could be an adequate reserve in Ange’s system, as long as he is paired with a quick partner. We’ve seen plenty of slower CBs succeed in high lines, but you most have cover pace somewhere

What areas do you think he can be coached in?

 

[Thenewcat]

Is he really that loyal? It's not like anybody has been interested in buying him for 6 or 7 years now. There was also rumours he was trying to force his way out when Pochettino realized he wasn't good enough. He was mainly on the bench before Mourinho got here and would have left earlier had he not had that injury.

He is a bad player, he has been a bad player for a while. I am hoping all this weird support in this thread is people forget in the summer when we haven't seen him play for a while that he is quite poor. Not very athletic, not particular good on the ball, goes quiet when things are going wrong. He just played 33 games for a team that conceded 63 goals. He was our worst player last year bar Lloris.

Like I said in a previous post, normally I wouldn't mind keeping a squad man like Dier around, even if they are weak because 500 minutes a season of Dier won't affect our results too much at the end of the season BUT he has been part of too many failed regimes and is part of a poor leadership group that has to be dismantled in the most ruthless way.

Hes a good guy but most fans hate him as a player.

Glad to see you’ve somewhat dialled down the hate rhetoric, but you’re still making a bunch of assumptions. How do you know no one wanted to buy him? I don’t recall ever seeing a single suggestion he tried to ‘force his way out’ under Poch, who was so convinced he wasn’t good enough he played him 216 times, so I conclude that you’ve made it up. You don’t really know what his contribution is in leadership terms either. And yes, we know he was part of a defence that conceded far too many goals last year, just like he was part of a defence that conceded a lot less the year before. I don’t want him to be a first choice CB for us, but your criticism is way over the top

 

[Thenewcat]

What areas do you think he can be coached in?

Positioning (including body positioning) and when and how to play out from the back would be the obvious 2 off the top of my head

 

[isaac94]

It was a similar situation when AVB arrived and Dawson opted to fight for his place rather than accepting the new system wasn't for him. Despite his lack of pace, he ended up making a decent contribution while Kaboul (quicker and more suited to the high line) was injured for half the season.

Dier has the added bonus of being able to fill in at RB or CDM, as well as CB, so he could be a very useful squad player while we rebuild.

dier now can no way fill in at rb or cdm, he has lost the little mobility he had

 

[Phil_2.0]

Glad to see you’ve somewhat dialled down the hate rhetoric, but you’re still making a bunch of assumptions. How do you know no one wanted to buy him? I don’t recall ever seeing a single suggestion he tried to ‘force his way out’ under Poch, who was so convinced he wasn’t good enough he played him 216 times, so I conclude that you’ve made it up. You don’t really know what his contribution is in leadership terms either. And yes, we know he was part of a defence that conceded far too many goals last year, just like he was part of a defence that conceded a lot less the year before. I don’t want him to be a first choice CB for us, but your criticism is way over the top

What hate rhetoric have I said?

Pochettino writes in his book that Dier was flirting with Mourinho when Jose was at United and how unhappy he was with that, he got a new 5 year contract after that. Dier was a boyhood Manchester United fan and I think when he had some value was angling a move there. There is also times when Pochettino had to say in the press that Dier was happy when he was sitting on the bench towards the end of Poch's reign. Remember in the documentary Jose had a chat with Dier to find out why he wasn't in the team.

He is a bad player. We were all talked into the idea that after 2 seasons of being bad for Mourinho in a 4 man defence ACTUALLY Dier was a specialist in the centre of a 3ATB and now we had Conte our 3ATB system would get the best out of him and then guess what? Dier has an all timer bad season as a Central 3ATB specialist.

Guarantee this year if he is 3rd choice we will be going into some period of the season like Arsenal had last year when they had to play Rob Holding, Dier will play and look shaky as fuck and cost us games.

 

[soflapaul]

ad nauseam adverb ad nau·se·am ad-ˈnȯ-zē-əm ​

: to a sickening or excessive degree
a topic that has been discussed and analyzed ad nauseam

Example: The debate on Eric Dier's talent is in no ways being debated ad nauseum.

 

[Timberwolf]

What hate rhetoric have I said?

Pochettino writes in his book that Dier was flirting with Mourinho when Jose was at United and how unhappy he was with that, he got a new 5 year contract after that. Dier was a boyhood Manchester United fan and I think when he had some value was angling a move there. There is also times when Pochettino had to say in the press that Dier was happy when he was sitting on the bench towards the end of Poch's reign. Remember in the documentary Jose had a chat with Dier to find out why he wasn't in the team.

He is a bad player. We were all talked into the idea that after 2 seasons of being bad for Mourinho in a 4 man defence ACTUALLY Dier was a specialist in the centre of a 3ATB and now we had Conte our 3ATB system would get the best out of him and then guess what? Dier has an all timer bad season as a Central 3ATB specialist.

Guarantee this year if he is 3rd choice we will be going into some period of the season like Arsenal had last year when they had to play Rob Holding, Dier will play and look shaky as fuck and cost us games.

Well he was part of a back 3 that got us into the top 4, which kinda demonstrates that a back 3 was the best system for him, provided the team is functioning (as it was initially under Conte) and he's well protected.

We never would've got top 4 with him playing in a back 4 and I think the main reason he had some odd decent spell under Jose - and I emphasise odd spell because at times he was awful - was largely because we played so defensively and he could just sit deep, defend crosses and block shots (at which he's perfectly fine).

Next season we might just get by with him as an emergency 4th choice option if we're lucky, but if he's 3rd choice I'd be very concerned indeed.

 

[longtimespur]

What areas do you think he can be coached in?

Carpark maybe?

 

[Thenewcat]

What hate rhetoric have I said?

hmm let’s see….

Well the online fans hate him, the match going fans hate him, the fans just hate him

Oh yeah

We were all talked into the idea that after 2 seasons of being bad for Mourinho in a 4 man defence ACTUALLY Dier was a specialist in the centre of a 3ATB and now we had Conte our 3ATB system would get the best out of him and then guess what? Dier has an all timer bad season as a Central 3ATB specialist.

We conceded 47 and 45 goals those 2 years under Mourinho, which isn’t amazing but certainly isn’t bad either. We then conceded 40 the following year, and were defensively excellent after Nuno went. Last season was a shitshow but that is true of you whole defence not just Dier

Pochettino writes in his book that Dier was flirting with Mourinho when Jose was at United and how unhappy he was with that, he got a new 5 year contract after that. Dier was a boyhood Manchester United fan and I think when he had some value was angling a move there.

Being potentially interested in a move isn’t the same as ‘tried to force his way out’. A player using interest to get a new contract isn’t disloyal either, it’s just business

Guarantee this year if he is 3rd choice we will be going into some period of the season like Arsenal had last year when they had to play Rob Holding, Dier will play and look shaky as fuck and cost us games.

it looks possible he will be 4th, not 3rd choice, but either way he is miles better than Rob Holding. There is a reason why he’s been picked by managers as diverse as Poch, Mourinho, Conte and Southgate and it’s not because you know more about football than any of them. Let’s leave it there

 

[Phil_2.0]

Well he was part of a back 3 that got us into the top 4, which kinda demonstrates that a back 3 was the best system for him, provided the team is functioning (as it was initially under Conte) and he's well protected.

We never would've got top 4 with him playing in a back 4 and I think the main reason he had some odd decent spell under Jose - and I emphasise odd spell because at times he was awful - was largely because we played so defensively and he could just sit deep, defend crosses and block shots (at which he's perfectly fine).

Next season we might just get by with him as an emergency 4th choice option if we're lucky, but if he's 3rd choice I'd be very concerned indeed.

That is totally fair, we did get top 4 with him in the centre of a 3. I do think it's his best position, it hides his vast weaknesses but as @ravenspurs says I do think that we caught everyone out in the final 6 months of that season with Conte's system and everyone being committed from Conte's start.

We got exposed because we didn't have the talent to do what Conte wanted for longer vs teams who knew how we were going to and that's because we have someone in the back 3 like Dier who couldn't execute the passes, organize the defence and dominate the box. What is remarkably bad about Dier is how even though he is a low block defender he isn't exactly dominant in duels.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Been a long time since he's done that. Do you really think he can still do it adequately?

I wasn't suggesting he should be our second choice for either position...just someone who could fill in there if we got really desperate. I'd certainly rather see Dier at fullback than Son.

FWIW:

RB - Royal is our only established RB, with question marks on whether Porro or Spence will cut it there (Porro might end up playing mostly RW). If we play a system where Udogie regularly bombs forwards and Royal tucks in at RCB, Dier or Tanganga could potentially be a more solid back-up to Royal than Porro or Spence. Perhaps Porro / Spence will surprise us though.

CDM - Skipp is our only CM who likes to sit that deep. Bentancur (ACL injury), Bissouma (AFCON), Sarr (AFCON), Hojbjerg (potentially leaving) & White (likely to be loaned out again?) are all more comfortable as box-to-box midfielders and could realistically all be unavailable during Jan/Feb. Maddison & Devine (unproven in PL) are more attacking again.
I'm not currently at all comfortable with our depth in CM, for the reasons listed above. Assuming Hojbjerg leaves, I'd prefer that we prioritise a proper CDM to improve the starting XI (Skipp as back-up), rather than another box-to-box midfielder. We probably need another two CMs though.
During 2015-16, Dier at CDM improved our team compared to the alternative of us having an imbalanced CM partnership, even though we probably had better individual players (who weren't CDMs) on the bench. Putting Sarr or Hojbjerg at CDM infringes on Bissouma / Bentancur being able to play with the freedom that they need.

 

[Phil_2.0]

hmm let’s see….

Oh yeah


We conceded 47 and 45 goals those 2 years under Mourinho, which isn’t amazing but certainly isn’t bad either. We then conceded 40 the following year, and were defensively excellent after Nuno went. Last season was a shitshow but that is true of you whole defence not just Dier

Being potentially interested in a move isn’t the same as ‘tried to force his way out’. A player using interest to get a new contract isn’t disloyal either, it’s just business


it looks possible he will be 4th, not 3rd choice, but either way he is miles better than Rob Holding. There is a reason why he’s been picked by managers as diverse as Poch, Mourinho, Conte and Southgate and it’s not because you know more about football than any of them. Let’s leave it there

Me saying that everyone hates Dier is example of hateful rhetoric? I am reflecting the accurate state of how much fans hate him as a player. I don't think people dislike him as a person but they are just sick of watching him play so miserably for their team for so long.

Well which one is it? If you are going to credit Dier for being a loyal club man and then say it's just business when he does something that isn't loyal?

Southgate picked him because England are weak as a nation at CB and Dier is a good tourist. Will happily go out to a World Cup and sit on the bench support the squad with no chance of playing.

Conte and Mourinho were undone by the fact they didn't have the required defenders to suit their style defensive style. Trix said above they used him out of necessity not because they wanted to, Mourinho was constantly trying to get Spurs to get a defender and I think Conte was too.

I think Dier is a bit better than Rob Holding I do agree but I do find it funny that people are defending Dier's right to a place in this squad after a terrible year, it's not even just this year, he has been poor for most of the past 5 seasons.

 

[cabinfever]

I think a lot of people posting need to put “in my opinion” in their posts, rather than stating what they claim are “facts”.

 

[Thenewcat]

Me saying that everyone hates Dier is example of hateful rhetoric? I am reflecting the accurate state of how much fans hate him as a player. I don't think people dislike him as a person but they are just sick of watching him play so miserably for their team for so long.

Well which one is it? If you are going to credit Dier for being a loyal club man and then say it's just business when he does something that isn't loyal?

Southgate picked him because England are weak as a nation at CB and Dier is a good tourist. Will happily go out to a World Cup and sit on the bench support the squad with no chance of playing.

Conte and Mourinho were undone by the fact they didn't have the required defenders to suit their style defensive style. Trix said above they used him out of necessity not because they wanted to, Mourinho was constantly trying to get Spurs to get a defender and I think Conte was too.

I think Dier is a bit better than Rob Holding I do agree but I do find it funny that people are defending Dier's right to a place in this squad after a terrible year, it's not even just this year, he has been poor for most of the past 5 seasons.

I don’t know why I’m even biting but 1). I didn’t say hateful rhetoric. I said ‘hate rherotic’. Since you originally and repeatedly talked about how people hated him then changed it to ‘as a player’ when people called you out on it that is dialling it down. 2). ‘Willing tourist with no chance of playing’??? He’s played 12 games at major tournaments and has 49 caps in total. Once again you are making stuff up because you don’t like the guy. You don’t like Dier, we get it. But stop making shit up and unless you have something new to add stop telling us you think he’s terrible, we know that too.