Do we draw a transfer line on the sand now ?

[Bobishism]

luka seems pretty down to earth though. when a world class player agrees a 20kish contract, you know he isn't solely in it for the money.

 

[EZSpur]

luka seems pretty down to earth though. when a world class player agrees a 20kish contract, you know he isn't solely in it for the money.

Yeah true - but you're forgetting, he joined from the Croatian league - i doubt he was getting paid anywhere near 20k a week there.

Plus, he can't command a larger wage straight away as he's untried and untested in the Prem!

I'm not doubting that he's a down-to-earth guy, but lets see what happens when contracts are renewed.

 

[jamesc0le]

decent contracts with get out clauses are the way to go. modric or palacios would need a club to trigger a 50million clause before they could even think about getting the hump

 

[jamesc0le]

A minimum fee release clause that only gets activated if we don't achieve CL football within a given period would be acceptable IMO. Puts more pressure on everyone to pull in the same direction.

 

[DC_Boy]

get out clauses can be a double-edged sword

but even if we 'correctly pitch ' them

what would have happened if Berb's get out clause was £40m - would we have enforced that

I don't think so

effectively Levy's £30m or you're staying was the get out clause

 

[Hoowl]

decent contracts with get out clauses are the way to go. modric or palacios would need a club to trigger a 50million clause before they could even think about getting the hump

If the release fee is unrealistic does that actually change the situation at all? I can't see how the Berbatov saga would have been any different if he had a £50m buy out fee in his contract.

 

[DC_Boy]

If the release fee is unrealistic does that actually change the situation at all? I can't see how the Berbatov saga would have been any different if he had a £50m buy out fee in his contract.

snap Hoowl - but I was first

 

[jamesc0le]

berbatov would never have signed such a contract or he would have made sure it had a ''failure to qualify for CL'' get out clause for much less, 20 million or so.

this is besides the point. we are talking about re-discussing the contracts and wages of the players we have now and the ones we will sign in the future.

 

[DC_Boy]

berbatov would never have signed such a contract or he would have made sure it had a ''failure to qualify for CL'' get out clause for much less, 20 million or so.

this is besides the point. we are talking about re-discussing the contracts and wages of the players we have now and the ones we will sign in the future.

it's not beside the point at all - people are suggesting get out clauses - they may or may not be a good thing - but there are obvious possible weak points

what level of get out clause would peoople sugest for Hudd Modric Gomes whoever

I'd be interested to see actual 'theoretical examples'

 

[jamesc0le]

it's not beside the point at all - people are suggesting get out clauses - they may or may not be a good thing - but there are obvious possible weak points

not really, this is the point of a well drawn out contract. you reward people with decent wages and you give them very good performance related bonuses. you let them know, before, and during extension negotiations, this is a contract that will be fulfilled one way or another.

it's only when you pamper people and tell them what they want to hear that they begin to think they can do what they want..

 

[mil1lion]

If a player doesn't want to play for Spurs, then i dont want him playing for Spurs.

 

[DC_Boy]

not really, this is the point of a well drawn out contract. you reward people with decent wages and you give them very good performance related bonuses. you let them know, before, and during extension negotiations, this is a contract that will be fulfilled one way or another.

it's only when you pamper people and tell them what they want to hear that they begin to think they can do what they want..

you haven't answered my point - or backed up your original point about get out clauses

in what way were my and Howl's replies 'beside the point'

BTW lots of clubs spend lots of time using highly knowledgeable people to draw up contracts - how do you think at spurs most contracts are drawn up for example - and how do your views ion contracts differ, say, from John Alexander's (I think that's his name)?

 

[Hoowl]

not really, this is the point of a well drawn out contract. you reward people with decent wages and you give them very good performance related bonuses. you let them know, before, and during extension negotiations, this is a contract that will be fulfilled one way or another.

it's only when you pamper people and tell them what they want to hear that they begin to think they can do what they want..

But as Levy pointed out in the summer, player power makes contracts far less binding that they were once considered. Plus it's not about more money, or the club missing out on the Champions League, it's about the oppertunity to join someone like Manchester United who are favourites for pretty much every competition they're in.

 

[jamesc0le]

you haven't answered my point - or backed up your original point about get out clauses

in what way were my and Howl's replies 'beside the point'

BTW lots of clubs spend lots of time using highly knowledgeable people to draw up contracts - how do you think at spurs most contracts are drawn up for example - and how do your views ion contracts differ from John Alexander's say?

my point is you cannot use berbatov when discussing this ''get out clause idea'' because the berbatov situ is very muddy, to say the least.
it was obvious (to some?) that 07/08 was his last season here if we didnt get CL footy. we knew this before the season began. so you cannot use the berba situ when discussing the enforcement of contracts..

 

[DC_Boy]

my point is you cannot use berbatov when discussing this ''get out clause idea'' because the berbatov situ is very muddy, to say the least.
it was obvious (to some?) that this was his last season here if we didnt get CL footy. we knew this before the season began. so you cannot use the berba situ when discussing the enforcement of contracts..

fine, forget Berbatov, so what level of get out clause would you set for Modric or Hudd or Gomes

or choose any player you like

 

[Hoowl]

my point is you cannot use berbatov when discussing this ''get out clause idea'' because the berbatov situ is very muddy, to say the least.
it was obvious (to some?) that 07/08 was his last season here if we didnt get CL footy. we knew this before the season began. so you cannot use the berba situ when discussing the enforcement of contracts..

One could argue that he was always off to United if they made an offer, irrespective of whether we got Champions League football or not. The same applies to Carrick. Let's not kid ourselves, getting into the Champions League once would be a great achievement for us but United have a chance of winning it every year.

 

[Hoowl]

my point is you cannot use berbatov when discussing this ''get out clause idea'' because the berbatov situ is very muddy, to say the least.
it was obvious (to some?) that 07/08 was his last season here if we didnt get CL footy. we knew this before the season began. so you cannot use the berba situ when discussing the enforcement of contracts..

But doesn't a get out clause weaken our hand as we relenquish control over whether the player stays or goes at the time he signs the contract? You're assuming that putting this clause in the contract will placate the player and make him want to stay but if his dream club comes along he could still kick up a stink and force his way out. This seems like a step backwards from what Villa did with Barry. They set a fee when they knew Liverpool wanted him and could assess his value based on the makret at that time. This is pretty much exactly what we did with Berbatov except we didn't make the fee public and United coughed up the cash.

 

[jamesc0le]

fine, forget Berbatov, so what level of get out clause would you set for Modric or Hudd or Gomes

or choose any player you like

it's not for the club to set, both parties have to be happy with the details of the contract, there can be no guns to the head or laughing off demands (ala carrick),

it's complicated but i'd say for a gomes persay
40k/week basic - 10k/week extra for euro qualif.
or 20/k week extra for full CL qualification (would have to play 60 percent of all league games for bonuses to apply)
+ cup win bonuses
a 25 million clause would be reasonable here

(i havent worked out how much gomes could cost us over a four year contract but 25 million seems a decent reasonable figure/clause for both parties .)

 

[Hoowl]

it's not for the club to set, both parties have to be happy with the details of the contract, there can be no guns to the head or laughing off demands (ala carrick),

it's complicated but i'd say for a gomes persay
40k/week basic - 10k/week extra for euro qualif.
or 20/k week extra for full CL qualification (would have to play 60 percent of all league games for bonuses to apply)
+ cup win bonuses
a 25 million clause would be reasonable here

(i havent worked out how much gomes could cost us over a four year contract but 25 million seems a decent reasonable figure/clause for both parties .)

A player could be completely happy with the terms of his contract but still want to leave to go to United in order to win things.

 

[DC_Boy]

it's not for the club to set, both parties have to be happy with the details of the contract, there can be no guns to the head or laughing off demands (ala carrick),

it's complicated but i'd say for a gomes persay
40k/week basic - 10k/week extra for euro qualif.
or 20/k week extra for full CL qualification (would have to play 60 percent of all league games for bonuses to apply)
+ cup win bonuses
a 25 million clause would be reasonable here

(i havent worked out how much gomes could cost us over a four year contract but 25 million seems a decent reasonable figure/clause for both parties .)

fair enough james

now I'm honestly not trying to catch you out - I respect you've given me a fair answer

but some obvious questions arise (and would probably arise if any of us had a go at setting 'imaginary contracts' on here)

given there's a strong rumour that HR thinks CC is his No.1 - would Gomes (agent) accept a £25m buy out clause - might he not say - well I'd like my no. 1 place back for starters - and actually you know I'm not too happy having been put on the bench so I'm not sure if I'm in a very co-operative mood these days?