Dawson

[jonathanhotspur]

Just to give your stat a little bit of balance, if we take the Blackpool game as an example, of the 12 unsuccessful passes out of 58, 5 were long balls down the field, 5 were headers that didn't come off, and in total only 2 really lost the ball in anything resembling a dangerous position.

I understand what you are getting at, but some context is always useful when quoting raw stats.

In comparison, if we take Vidic, in a game they won 4-0 vs Wigan he made 8 unsuccessful passes out of a total of 37 and vs Wolves where they lost 2-1 made 18 unsuccessful passes out of 59. My point being, Dawson is no worse in that respect than one of the best CB's in the league and possibly the world.

I take your point about context. I should have provided more detail.

I don't know how often Vidic gives the ball away in general but I can't accept that as a defence. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's giving the ball away.

I can, however, compare Daws to our other cbs and it is safe to say that he concedes possession far more often than Gallas, for instance. So why can't we use that as a comparison instead of bringing Vidic into it?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Surely we all agree that Redknapp hadn't allocated any marking instructions ?

It's not a question of blaming Dawson for the poor job Jenas and Gallas made of defending Adebayor's threat, they did, but it's perfectly valid to expect your captain and taller CB to make the right decision and conduct himself accordingly. Either Dawson wasn't smart enough to realise the danger this posed, or he shirked it. I would hope your captain would do neither.

Even in my ratings and here initially, when generally praising Dawson's effort tuesday, it seemed baffling to me that he wasn't picking up Adebayor. It seemed the most logical thing to do.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

The second goal, Sandro and Gallas seemed to assume responsibility for Adabayor and Kadiera (although nobody really switched on at all).

Dawson was marking the space between the goal and the two players on the edge of the box, as a cutback into that space would have also resulted in a goal.

I think everyone in the box seemed slow to react, but Gallas and Sandro are are way more culpable than Dawson, who was the furthest away of 4 players in the box.

Dawson is probably the best header of the ball we have. Why isn't he making it his business to stick to Adebayor? Our midfielders should be worrying about the guys lurking on the edge of the box.

Gallas didn't cover himself in glory but the lack of organisation is so amateur.

 

[WhiteStripe]

I take your point about context. I should have provided more detail.

I don't know how often Vidic gives the ball away in general but I can't accept that as a defence. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's giving the ball away.

I can, however, compare Daws to our other cbs and it is safe to say that he concedes possession far more often than Gallas, for instance. So why can't we use that as a comparison instead of bringing Vidic into it?

I was trying to bring in a CB playing in a top team who is rated as one of the best around to give you an example of why stats don't always tell the whole story. If you look through Vidic's ststa, he has a very similar average success/failure ratio to Dawson, yet he is considered the best in the world. You could spend all day comparing each and every player, and I can find games where Dawson has given the ball away less times, and in less costly areas than Gallas. I think this is where stats without context become useless.

I understand your opinion of what Michaels shortcomings are, and I would agree with some observations of his style, and failings compared to others, but he is rated far to harshly by you. That is a fact.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The second goal, Sandro and Gallas seemed to assume responsibility for Adabayor and Kadiera (although nobody really switched on at all).

Dawson was marking the space between the goal and the two players on the edge of the box, as a cutback into that space would have also resulted in a goal.

I think everyone in the box seemed slow to react, but Gallas and Sandro are are way more culpable than Dawson, who was the furthest away of 4 players in the box.

Marking space ? Is that really what our leader and tallest CB should be doing ?

As I've said previously, everyone was utterly unprofessional that corner. But are you not honestly disappointed in Dawson's lack of leadership in this respect - in terms of organising and making sure people were concentrating and his actual actions on this corner ?

I watched every single corner last night to see what was happening, and in every single one the organisation is woeful.

 

[WhiteStripe]

Dawson is probably the best header of the ball we have. Why isn't he making it his business to stick to Adebayor? Our midfielders should be worrying about the guys lurking on the edge of the box.

Gallas didn't cover himself in glory but the lack of organisation is so amateur.

I completely agree it is amateur. Dawson wasn't in the best position at all, but the goal is a direct result of William and Sandro not picking their men up.

 

[WhiteStripe]

Marking space ? Is that really what our leader and tallest CB should be doing ?

As I've said previously, everyone was utterly unprofessional that corner. But are you not honestly disappointed in Dawson's lack of leadership in this respect - in terms of organising and making sure people were concentrating and his actual actions on this corner ?

I watched every single corner last night to see what was happening, and in every single one the organisation is woeful.

Yup, I am disappointed, both for this (and the first), but I'm more disappointed in Gallas and Sandro. Look, In my opinion, Gallas is experienced enough and senior to warrant being captain, but regardless of whether he is captain, his seniority also gives him the right to make calls in the box about who is where.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I was trying to bring in a CB playing in a top team who is rated as one of the best around to give you an example of why stats don't always tell the whole story. If you look through Vidic's ststa, he has a very similar average success/failure ratio to Dawson, yet he is considered the best in the world. You could spend all day comparing each and every player, and I can find games where Dawson has given the ball away less times, and in less costly areas than Gallas. I think this is where stats without context become useless.

I understand your opinion of what Michaels shortcomings are, and I would agree with some observations of his style, and failings compared to others, but he is rated far to harshly by you. That is a fact.

I've never been a massive fan of stats, to be perfectly honest. But sometimes they have their uses on forums when you can't pore over video analysis together. Which would be ideal, really.

Gallas makes better use of the ball. As I said, I am not going to muddy the waters by bringing a team I don't particularly like into the equation.

But you are most welcome to find the games where Gallas has given the ball away more than Daws and in more dangerous areas and we can discuss it. Especially if you think it's a regular thing.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Awwwwwwwww poor little william, just exactly what is the height difference between the two by the way. Maybe Dawson should have stood and held Williams hand? and they could have marked Adebayor together :roll:

Gallas is an experienced Central Defender i am sure he has marked people taller than him before.

As much as you want to try and pin some blame on Dawson(as you generally do)

HE WASN'T AT FAULT FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S POOR MARKING.

Isn't that the point though, surely as captain and CB, he is responsible for making sure that other people are marking. As captain I would really hope that Dawson would have made sure he was on Adebayor and that others were doing their jobs.

I don't think we have a great leader amongst our team, and that definitely isn't helped by Redknapp's poor organisation.

But I think we can scotch the myth that Dawson is a great leader can't we ?

I have seen no evidence of it, but much to the contrary.

 

[WhiteStripe]

I've never been a massive fan of stats, to be perfectly honest. But sometimes they have their uses on forums when you can't pore over video analysis together. Which would be ideal, really.

Gallas makes better use of the ball. As I said, I am not going to muddy the waters by bringing a team I don't particularly like into the equation.

But you are most welcome to find the games where Gallas has given the ball away more than Daws and in more dangerous areas and we can discuss it. Especially if you think it's a regular thing.

The thing is, I don't think either do regularly, certainly not that can be attributed to tons of points dropped. I happen to think Dawson & Gallas compliment each other perfectly at the back.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I completely agree it is amateur. Dawson wasn't in the best position at all, but the goal is a direct result of William and Sandro not picking their men up.

Gallas was lost in a world of his own. The only thing I'll say is that he wasn't fit anyway and he's a bit weak in the air. Which is why I would like to have seen Daws-who is very good in the air-picking up someone like Adebayor.

I blame Redknapp as well, you know. And we do so much hoofing that I think he either encourages it or does nothing to discourage it.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

The thing is, I don't think either do regularly, certainly not that can be attributed to tons of points dropped. I happen to think Dawson & Gallas compliment each other perfectly at the back.

I think you'll find Daws plays a lot of long diagonal balls and such like. You can check the stats-it's the only way I can show you that I am not making stuff up for the sake of it.

 

[Legend10]

Calling Dawson out and not Gallas for the first goal is spot on as he was directly behind JJ and Adebayor and looking at the situation!

Teams that deliver trophies do so with leadership on the field as well as off, he could see the danger and it either didn't register which would be really worrying or he simply failed to act on it, which is equally worrying.

His duty as a CB is to deliver clean sheets, therefore he must react to danger, he saw a dangerous situation and didn't act to deal with it.

What hasn't been said so far which is also relevant is the part that JJ played and I'm not talking about his challenge. He must also recognise that he's mis-matched against Adebayor and tell Dawson they need to be swapping. However he may have been more confused than others as he literally found out about 7 or 8 minutes before the corner that he was playing and maybe his focus wasn't quite there.

Dawson should and I hope privately did put his hands up and say he didn't react to the danger.

There was another corner in the first half from the other side after about 30 minutes where nobody went anywhere near Adebayor who stood all alone on the 6 yard box line for an eternity. Thankfully it was a poor corner to the front stick and we cleared it, but bloody hell, it was frightening organisation!

 

[Bobbins]

Surely merge this with the existing Dawson thread...

 

[jonathanhotspur]

And they complement each other in the sense that one is good in the air and one isn't but neither of them have much pace and that is a bit of a worry.

 

[WhiteStripe]

I think you'll find Daws plays a lot of long diagonal balls and such like. You can check the stats-it's the only way I can show you that I am not making stuff up for the sake of it.

He plays a lot of very successful diagonal balls e.g.the one to Bale. He's by far our best passer of a long ball in defence, and probably only third in the team to Modric and Huddlestone.

Calling Dawson out and not Gallas for the first goal is spot on as he was directly behind JJ and Adebayor and looking at the situation!

Teams that deliver trophies do so with leadership on the field as well as off, he could see the danger and it either didn't register which would be really worrying or he simply failed to act on it, which is equally worrying.

His duty as a CB is to deliver clean sheets, therefore he must react to danger, he saw a dangerous situation and didn't act to deal with it.

What hasn't been said so far which is also relevant is the part that JJ played and I'm not talking about his challenge. He must also recognise that he's mis-matched against Adebayor and tell Dawson they need to be swapping. However he may have been more confused than others as he literally found out about 7 or 8 minutes before the corner that he was playing and maybe his focus wasn't quite there.

Dawson should and I hope privately did put his hands up and say he didn't react to the danger.

There was another corner in the first half from the other side after about 30 minutes where nobody went anywhere near Adebayor who stood all alone on the 6 yard box line for an eternity. Thankfully it was a poor corner to the front stick and we cleared it, but bloody hell, it was frightening organisation!

I agree that Dawson needed to take responsibility.

Jenas would have avoided a goal had he been switched on though. He fell asleep, pure and simple.

 

[gavspur]

The second goal, Daws wasn't marking space - he was marking Ronaldo - but they caught out a sleeping/still organising Spurs defence. It happened so quickly, if you watch the goal, Daws was trying to find where Ronaldo was (edge of the area about to run in). It was so quick that Ronaldo didn't get to run in either leaving Daws completely lost...

As to why he wasn't marking Adebayor, I aint got a clue. Obviously Crouch should've been a big part of our defending set-pieces.

And then as to why JJ was closest to (wouldn't say marking) to Adebayor for the 1st??? I aint got a clue.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

As one pundit said, Jenas would never have won the header because he's too GUTLESS.

He played a top drawer ball to Bale, White Stripe, but a lot of the time, they result in the opposition getting the ball back. That's alright against a lot of the clodhoppers in the PL but against the top sides, you get your arse kicked for it.

And I hate long balls anyway. They are too easy to read. It's an aspect of Huddlestone's game that I don't like. Watch when he plays a 60 yard pass to Lennon for how long it takes Lennon to control the ball before he can actually do something with it.

 

[WhiteStripe]

The second goal, Daws wasn't marking space - he was marking Ronaldo - but they caught out a sleeping/still organising Spurs defence. It happened so quickly, if you watch the goal, Daws was trying to find where Ronaldo was (edge of the area about to run in). It was so quick that Ronaldo didn't get to run in either leaving Daws completely lost...

As to why he wasn't marking Adebayor, I aint got a clue. Obviously Crouch should've been a big part of our defending set-pieces.

And then as to why JJ was closest to (wouldn't say marking) to Adebayor for the 1st??? I aint got a clue.

He was marking the space, the space Ronaldo was looking to run into.

 

[gavspur]

He was marking the space, the space Ronaldo was looking to run into.

he was trying to find where Ronaldo was to mark him.

He was marking Ronaldo.