Dani Ceballos signs for Arsenal

[mil1lion]

You all are going to be surprised when he's in the starting line up next year again, as he was for most of this year when he was healthy and fit. I think he's crucial to the way we play.

I personally think Winks has now replaced Dier in that area of the pitch. The role in centre midfield has changed now largely because of the high press. The deeper midfielder needs to be comfortable facing side on or back to goal. Dier can't play that way but Winks does it well. He can turn in small spaces and pass the ball out from midfield under pressure. Dier needs to be facing forward with a picture in front of him. I actually think the way the game has evolved he will suit playing centre back. From there he can play more facing forward. I would not be surprised if Dier replaces Toby at the back. In that case Ceballos would compete with Winks.

 

[ValenciaYid]

I think Hercules is right and that's where we're at. If so we need to set a deadline for our terms (loan with option or permanent deal) and then move on to other targets. If money is indeed a problem if we buy Lo Celso etc then we might just have to settle for the loan and think about it next year whether it's Ceballos or an alternative.

They loaned Kovacic to Chelsea with an option to buy when they bought Courtois, so fail to see how it's not possible to convince them.

Yep we wont deal unless theres an option to buy or its an outright purchase...

 

[mil1lion]

I could see a loan with an option to buy but it would be our option to buy. Maybe a pre agreed fee that if we like him we can sign him for x amount. It would help us finance Lo Celso and Sess this window.

 

[Japhet]

I am thinking along those lines too. Loaning us Ceballos would be a smart way of asking for more time for Eriksen while they pursue Pogba, and get around the issue with the later window close over there.

Ceballos is versatile enough to get game time in multiple positions.

I think if Eriksen to Madrid fell through this summer however, we'd keep Ceballos and Eriksen would likely move on in January. The squad bloat would only be temporary, and we could even consider something like loaning out Lamela until Eriksen leaves if needed.

I'd have thought Madrid would have to sell a few with the amount of money they've chucked about so far (and look like they'll keep going for a while). Don't really see how a loan fee helps them much.

 

[dtxspurs]

I personally think Winks has now replaced Dier in that area of the pitch. The role in centre midfield has changed now largely because of the high press. The deeper midfielder needs to be comfortable facing side on or back to goal. Dier can't play that way but Winks does it well. He can turn in small spaces and pass the ball out from midfield under pressure. Dier needs to be facing forward with a picture in front of him. I actually think the way the game has evolved he will suit playing centre back. From there he can play more facing forward. I would not be surprised if Dier replaces Toby at the back.

But with midfielders like Ndombele, Ceballos, Lo Celso & Eriksen (all potentially of course) why do we need a player like Winks to be the "deep lying midfielder"? What would be more valuable is Dier dropping back, forming a back 3, allowing the fullbacks to get higher and players like Ceballos, Lo Celso, Eriksen & Ndombele to attack.

 

[piedpiper]

Kane's backup... and he'd be first alternate for Son's spot in reality as well.

Sorry didn't see that. Took a 2nd look.

 

[Japhet]

But with midfielders like Ndombele, Ceballos, Lo Celso & Eriksen (all potentially of course) why do we need a player like Winks to be the "deep lying midfielder"? What would be more valuable is Dier dropping back, forming a back 3, allowing the fullbacks to get higher and players like Ceballos, Lo Celso, Eriksen & Ndombele to attack.

Nice to have that option but it does take away a spot in a more advanced position.

 

[mil1lion]

But with midfielders like Ndombele, Ceballos, Lo Celso & Eriksen (all potentially of course) why do we need a player like Winks to be the "deep lying midfielder"? What would be more valuable is Dier dropping back, forming a back 3, allowing the fullbacks to get higher and players like Ceballos, Lo Celso, Eriksen & Ndombele to attack.

Ideally you want a player like Winks to be the one showing for the ball from defence. He'll be the one starting things in midfield. Ndombele and Sissoko will be box to box. That's how the Winks and Sissoko pair worked last season. There is no need for 3 centre backs if you pass the ball better out from midfield.

 

[dtxspurs]

Ideally you want a player like Winks to be the one showing for the ball from defence. He'll be the one starting things in midfield. Ndombele and Sissoko will be box to box. That's how the Winks and Sissoko pair worked last season. There is no need for 3 centre backs if you pass the ball better out from midfield.

Ndombele does that, Lo Celso/Eriksen/Ceballos can do that. I'd rather have a better defensive shield & allow us to let our fullbacks play really high up the pitch with 3 "defenders" back in possession.

 

[hutchiniho]

The above debate would simply be determined by who we play surely.
We wouldn’t see a dcm dropping back to make a back 3 when we are at home to Villa but more needed away to Liverpool.
No need to worry yet tho ;-) LoC, DC and CE very much TBC!

 

[mil1lion]

Ndombele does that, Lo Celso/Eriksen/Ceballos can do that. I'd rather have a better defensive shield & allow us to let our fullbacks play really high up the pitch with 3 "defenders" back in possession.

For me the fullbacks can't get up and down on the bigger pitch like they did at WHL so I like players like Son, Moura and Sess attacking the fullbacks. The fullbacks can get up and support them still. I think the defensive midfielder splitting the centre backs has become an outdated concept. It will be good to have different options though.

 

[KILLA_SIN]

Morata was signed by Juve for 20M and 2 years later RM exercised buy back option for 30M. A season later they sold him to Chelsea for 60M. Thats what DL will be aiming to avoid.

 

[Deleted member 22380]

Tell me what so bad about a loan deal without an option to buy?

So we only take Ceballos if there is an option to make it permanent and if there is no option, we would refuse the deal? Is that right? It seems incredibly dumb given our centre midfield depth.

Surely having Ceballos for one year is better than relying on Wanyama, Dier and an unproven Oliver Skipp as midfield depth.

 

[dtxspurs]

Tell me what so bad about a loan deal without an option to buy?

It seems stupid that we would refuse Ceballos if Real Madrid are offering but are set in their terms by insisting no option.

Surely having Ceballos for one year is better than relying on Wanyama, Dier and an unproven Oliver Skipp as midfield depth.

Odd you compare Ceballos to three defensive midfielders.

Because we should try to go after a player that will be of long term benefit to us. If Madrid won't include a purchase option then you move onto the next target.

 

[Ben1]

Tell me what so bad about a loan deal without an option to buy?

So we only take Ceballos if there is an option to make it permanent and if there is no option, we would refuse the deal? Is that right? It seems incredibly dumb given our centre midfield depth.

Surely having Ceballos for one year is better than relying on Wanyama, Dier and an unproven Oliver Skipp as midfield depth.

You appear to have deliberately forgotten our 5 best midfielders in this equation and compared Ceballos to three drastically different players instead.

 

[Lilbaz]

Tell me what so bad about a loan deal without an option to buy?

So we only take Ceballos if there is an option to make it permanent and if there is no option, we would refuse the deal? Is that right? It seems incredibly dumb given our centre midfield depth.

Surely having Ceballos for one year is better than relying on Wanyama, Dier and an unproven Oliver Skipp as midfield depth.

It's not horrendous just not optimal. If he has a good season with us real demand a lot more money from us to buy him next summer. Or they take him back us having developed him for a year while paying his wages. Then we have to rebuild again.

 

[chinaman]

I only went 2 deep, but yes I'd sell Lamela, Wanyama, Janssen, Onomah, GKN, Trippier & Aurier. Loan out Skipp (he won't be getting much playing time with 3 new midfield additions) and have KWP be the backup RB.

So far there's no sign of others wanting our deadwood.

 

[worcestersauce]

So far there's no sign of others wanting our deadwood.

Maybe they don't know they want them yet, wait until Daniel speaks to them and tells them they can't have any of our players.

 

[jolegend]

Yep we wont deal unless theres an option to buy or its an outright purchase...

Outright purchase hopefully!

 

[WiganSpur]

It's not horrendous just not optimal. If he has a good season with us real demand a lot more money from us to buy him next summer. Or they take him back us having developed him for a year while paying his wages. Then we have to rebuild again.

I was under the impression with option to buy that a fee is pre agreed before the loan so then it would be up to Spurs to match it at any point and if they did then RM would have to accept. Of course it would be up to the player to agree too i'd imagine.

There's also obligation to buy which is basically a permanent deal except with the fresh contract at the end of the loan I presume. I think this only makes sense for players on big contracts though.