Ched Evans Jailed...

[scoobydoo]

Objective? People who have been through rape speaking about it and you want their input not to be counted because they can't "be objective"?

And yet, men who clearly have issues with their own behaviour being called into question, or their own sense of entitlement being whittled away, defending Evans unconditionally are a bastion of objectivity?

I would agree, neither parties in your above scenario are objective.

I don't sympathise with Evans. I would happily see him not return to football, as I think he is a fairly nasty piece of work, and don't think he deserves all the trappings that come with a professional footballers lifestyle. Not sure that is a legal argument though.

I was just saying that you hear all sorts of stories about what footballers get up to with the girls that hang around them. In the most part they aren't punished (either by their clubs, the FA or in a court of law).

I would bet that you could pick household names from any club that have been involved in the same circumstances as Evans

 

[Shanks]

I recall an event that took place many years ago, in my early 20's. End of season football do in Bournemouth, about 20 lads, all out on the piss. Back then, I used to keep money in a fag packet, instead of carrying a pack of fags and a wallet.

At around 10pm, hit the strip club at the bottom of town, I lost that fag packet and all money I had on me, so decided to turn it in, leaving the lads to carry on their night.
I was walking around the streets of Bournemouth, pissed and lost as I couldn't remember where the bloody hotel was. I stopped a few people to ask them if they knew where it was, got pointed in a direction.

Walking up the street a lady was walking past me and I asked her if she knew where it was, she asked me why I was going home, told her I'd lost my money, asked her why she was out on her own, said she fell out with her friends, wanted a drink.

Next thing you know, she's dragging me off to a bar - paying for my drinks, and we had a blast at the australian bar near the beach. Both pretty buggered through drink - end of the night approaches, I invite her back to my hotel room, she agrees and we spend the next hour or so doing some rather rude things to each other.

In the middle of the vinegar strokes, theres a knock at the door - my mate (who I was sharing with), I open the door, he looks at her, looks at me naked, and asks her outright if he could join in.

She said straight away yes, I've always wanted to fuck two blokes at once - first thing my mate does is start going down on her...

I didn't have the heart to tell him he was having a munch on my man-custard, so spent the next few minutes laughing my arse off - as such, he was too pissed, he feel asleep without doing anything and we carried on having fun. I woke up, she was gone.

I told him over running eggs in the morning, and he's never lived it down - she was pretty banging as well, from Australia, fit.. pretty lucky to be honest.

My point of the story is this - it's lad culture to go out on the piss and go out on the pull - it happens. This Ched case in my opinion was exactly that, just a pissed up night out, which ended up with some banging, unfortunately it ended up badly for those involved due to what happened.

Now whilst I courts agree that he is in fact a convicted rapist, do I believe he is a rapist?

No I don't, not in the typical sense of forcing oneself onto someone else against their wishes (taking aside the technical sense of rape which includes not being well enough to give consent), this was a pissed up bang, with a very unfortunate ending.

Now the reason why I don't necessarily see it as rape (yes it was but it;s irrelevant for the point I'm trying to make), is because I can relate to this, and it goes on up and down the country weekly. Some people won't agree with that type of culture or behaviour - bully for them. I don't particular like that behaviour either (ironically), but that being said, I don't go around judging those that do, it's up to them how they behave.

And thats why I've struggled all along because I've been in similiar positions to how this case unfolded.

 

[ethanedwards]

So the people who claim to be outraged by rape threatened the daughter of an Oldham director with rape.

Well done social justice warriors. You've outdone yourselves.

What threat, has it been reported to the police or is it another rumour.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

I would bet that you could pick household names from any club that have been involved in the same circumstances as Evans

The level of publicity the Evans case has received could well lead to them behaving more cautiously, don't you think?

 

[Coyboy]

I recall an event that took place many years ago, in my early 20's. End of season football do in Bournemouth, about 20 lads, all out on the piss. Back then, I used to keep money in a fag packet, instead of carrying a pack of fags and a wallet.

At around 10pm, hit the strip club at the bottom of town, I lost that fag packet and all money I had on me, so decided to turn it in, leaving the lads to carry on their night.
I was walking around the streets of Bournemouth, pissed and lost as I couldn't remember where the bloody hotel was. I stopped a few people to ask them if they knew where it was, got pointed in a direction.

Walking up the street a lady was walking past me and I asked her if she knew where it was, she asked me why I was going home, told her I'd lost my money, asked her why she was out on her own, said she fell out with her friends, wanted a drink.

Next thing you know, she's dragging me off to a bar - paying for my drinks, and we had a blast at the australian bar near the beach. Both pretty buggered through drink - end of the night approaches, I invite her back to my hotel room, she agrees and we spend the next hour or so doing some rather rude things to each other.

In the middle of the vinegar strokes, theres a knock at the door - my mate (who I was sharing with), I open the door, he looks at her, looks at me naked, and asks her outright if he could join in.

She said straight away yes, I've always wanted to fuck two blokes at once - first thing my mate does is start going down on her...

I didn't have the heart to tell him he was having a munch on my man-custard, so spent the next few minutes laughing my arse off - as such, he was too pissed, he feel asleep without doing anything and we carried on having fun. I woke up, she was gone.

I told him over running eggs in the morning, and he's never lived it down - she was pretty banging as well, from Australia, fit.. pretty lucky to be honest.

My point of the story is this - it's lad culture to go out on the piss and go out on the pull - it happens. This Ched case in my opinion was exactly that, just a pissed up night out, which ended up with some banging, unfortunately it ended up badly for those involved due to what happened.

Now whilst I courts agree that he is in fact a convicted rapist, do I believe he is a rapist?

No I don't, not in the typical sense of forcing oneself onto someone else against their wishes (taking aside the technical sense of rape which includes not being well enough to give consent), this was a pissed up bang, with a very unfortunate ending.

Now the reason why I don't necessarily see it as rape (yes it was but it;s irrelevant for the point I'm trying to make), is because I can relate to this, and it goes on up and down the country weekly. Some people won't agree with that type of culture or behaviour - bully for them. I don't particular like that behaviour either (ironically), but that being said, I don't go around judging those that do, it's up to them how they behave.

And thats why I've struggled all along because I've been in similiar positions to how this case unfolded.

For a quite obvious reason, that doesn’t amount to rape. If he had gone further it quite possibly would have.

Just because it happens commonly doesn’t make it any better or acceptable. It’s rape. There’s no two ways about it, a court found that she didn’t consent.

 

[Shanks]

For a quite obvious reason, that doesn’t amount to rape. If he had gone further it quite possibly would have.

Just because it happens commonly doesn’t make it any better or acceptable. It’s rape. There’s no two ways about it, a court found that she didn’t consent.

Somewhat missing the point of my post, but I expected the red crosses from the typicals.

Point being, is that I can relate to this case - which is why I've struggled to accept the decision made by the jury.

I haven't said it's acceptable behavior if anything I clearly said I don't like that behaviour.

 

[PLTuck]

About 5 years ago, a couple of months after the break up of my marriage. I was invited out for a drink with a female acquaintance, to "cheer me up".

I got pissed (paid for by her), she took me to a hotel, which she paid for, and jumped my bones. The next day there was instant regret from me. I would never in a million years have had sex with her if I was sober. I had a patchy recollection of the previous nights events.

Was I raped?


Genuine story, and genuine question.

 

[Drexl]

I recall an event that took place many years ago, in my early 20's. End of season football do in Bournemouth, about 20 lads, all out on the piss. Back then, I used to keep money in a fag packet, instead of carrying a pack of fags and a wallet.

At around 10pm, hit the strip club at the bottom of town, I lost that fag packet and all money I had on me, so decided to turn it in, leaving the lads to carry on their night.
I was walking around the streets of Bournemouth, pissed and lost as I couldn't remember where the bloody hotel was. I stopped a few people to ask them if they knew where it was, got pointed in a direction.

Walking up the street a lady was walking past me and I asked her if she knew where it was, she asked me why I was going home, told her I'd lost my money, asked her why she was out on her own, said she fell out with her friends, wanted a drink.

Next thing you know, she's dragging me off to a bar - paying for my drinks, and we had a blast at the australian bar near the beach. Both pretty buggered through drink - end of the night approaches, I invite her back to my hotel room, she agrees and we spend the next hour or so doing some rather rude things to each other.

In the middle of the vinegar strokes, theres a knock at the door - my mate (who I was sharing with), I open the door, he looks at her, looks at me naked, and asks her outright if he could join in.

She said straight away yes, I've always wanted to fuck two blokes at once - first thing my mate does is start going down on her...

I didn't have the heart to tell him he was having a munch on my man-custard, so spent the next few minutes laughing my arse off - as such, he was too pissed, he feel asleep without doing anything and we carried on having fun. I woke up, she was gone.

I told him over running eggs in the morning, and he's never lived it down - she was pretty banging as well, from Australia, fit.. pretty lucky to be honest.

My point of the story is this - it's lad culture to go out on the piss and go out on the pull - it happens. This Ched case in my opinion was exactly that, just a pissed up night out, which ended up with some banging, unfortunately it ended up badly for those involved due to what happened.

Now whilst I courts agree that he is in fact a convicted rapist, do I believe he is a rapist?

No I don't, not in the typical sense of forcing oneself onto someone else against their wishes (taking aside the technical sense of rape which includes not being well enough to give consent), this was a pissed up bang, with a very unfortunate ending.

Now the reason why I don't necessarily see it as rape (yes it was but it;s irrelevant for the point I'm trying to make), is because I can relate to this, and it goes on up and down the country weekly. Some people won't agree with that type of culture or behaviour - bully for them. I don't particular like that behaviour either (ironically), but that being said, I don't go around judging those that do, it's up to them how they behave.

And thats why I've struggled all along because I've been in similiar positions to how this case unfolded.

Same here, when I was younger and went on lads holidays to the med I shagged birds that were completely legless, I was too tbf, so if Evans is a rapist then in the true sense of the law so am I and so are probably 3/4 of under 25 lads in this country

 

[225]

For a quite obvious reason, that doesn’t amount to rape. If he had gone further it quite possibly would have.

Just because it happens commonly doesn’t make it any better or acceptable. It’s rape. There’s no two ways about it, a court found that she didn’t consent.

Any reasoning behind that? It seems like people think that drunk 'relations' is a crime.

Do people have to prearrange drunken 'moments' in order for them to not be rapey?

I've heard of booking a slot, but...

 

[225]

About 5 years ago, a couple of months after the break up of my marriage. I was invited out for a drink with a female acquaintance, to "cheer me up".

I got pissed (paid for by her), she took me to a hotel, which she paid for, and jumped my bones. The next day there was instant regret from me. I would never in a million years have had sex with her if I was sober. I had a patchy recollection of the previous nights events.

Was I raped?


Genuine story, and genuine question.

Apparently, according to recent definitions. It's safer to say that you got Chedd'ed

 

[Drexl]

Magaluf, Freshers Week, stag parties, lads nights out in Blackpool. They are drink fuelled human meat markets, if Evans had lurked behind a bush and grabbed this girl and had his way with her I would say not only should he never play again but that he should also have his balls cut off, but I do feel he has been treated unjustly by getting jailed for doing what happens a million times each Friday/Saturday night

 

[Coyboy]

Somewhat missing the point of my post, but I expected the red crosses from the typicals.

Point being, is that I can relate to this case - which is why I've struggled to accept the decision made by the jury.

I haven't said it's acceptable behavior if anything I clearly said I don't like that behaviour.

What point am I missing?

It was rape, the physical necessities took place, he wasn't found to have reasonably inferred consent and two courts didn't interfere with the decision.

If this happens a lot every weekend, then that's a very sad and alarming state of affairs. It doesn't make him any less guilty though.

 

[Coyboy]

Any reasoning behind that? It seems like people think that drunk 'relations' is a crime.

Do people have to prearrange drunken 'moments' in order for them to not be rapey?

I've heard of booking a slot, but...

Reasoning behind what?

 

[Coyboy]

Same here, when I was younger and went on lads holidays to the med I shagged birds that were completely legless, I was too tbf, so if Evans is a rapist then in the true sense of the law so am I and so are probably 3/4 of under 25 lads in this country

Only if you did something similar to Evans, and not McDonald.

 

[Shanks]

In all serious, if anything this case highlights are the dangers faced when being drunk.

Which surely has to be a good thing, right?

 

[Shanks]

What point am I missing?

It was rape, the physical necessities took place, he wasn't found to have reasonably inferred consent and two courts didn't interfere with the decision.

If this happens a lot every weekend, then that's a very sad and alarming state of affairs. It doesn't make him any less guilty though.

If you took yourself off the pedestal for a second, you'll see that the point I was making, was that it's not as black and white for many folks, I gave what I believe was a related experience as to why I sit more in the grey area on the whole thing.

I've not defended the outcome or arguing that the fella isn't a convicted rapist, but instead tried a different tact to explain why I believe the decision, is difficult for some to comprehend.

That is the only point I was trying to make with that particular post.

 

[talkshowhost86]

In all serious, if anything this case highlights are the dangers faced when being drunk.

Which surely has to be a good thing, right?

Let's hope so.

The argument that 'it happens regularly so it can't be rape' is not a good one (and I know you haven't said that yourself Shanks) and maybe this case will make everyone think a bit more about what/who they do when they are out on the piss.

 

[Drexl]

Only if you did something similar to Evans, and not McDonald.

One girl was so drunk I had to carry her over my shoulder to get her into the bedroom, she was totally off her head, it was more a McDonald situation as we had been drinking together in a club for about 3 hrs, but I doubt she remembered a thing and as we were both pissed I doubt she was capable of giving consent in a legal sense

I think the law needs changing to cover grey areas such as what happened with Evans, it is wrong to use such emotive terms in the media as 'rapist' Ched Evans, that implies he is as bad as someone who jumps out of a bush

 

[Shanks]

Let's hope so.

The argument that 'it happens regularly so it can't be rape' is not a good one (and I know you haven't said that yourself Shanks) and maybe this case will make everyone think a bit more about what/who they do when they are out on the piss.

Agree with that completely, I'm not sure people are saying it happens all the time it's not rape, it's just venturing on the realization for a lot of people, they've treaded on thin ice on occasions, it's certainly raised a few thoughts for me and my past experiences, when at the time, it was nothing more than a laugh or a bang!

 

[225]

Reasoning behind what?

You seemed to be saying that @Shanks 's version would have been rape if it had gone further. It's quite possibly a similar way to how the night unfolded in the McDonald/Evans case, so I'm curious as to how you can be so sure that it is classified as rape where there is a clear and distinct request/invitation/consent?