can ramos motivate ?

[SpurSince57]

Oh, I'm happy to be a contrarian!

Well, yes, we were in the relegation zone, but had in fact dropped just one point more than in last season's corresponding fixtures. But we were told, weren't we, that we had a squad ready to challenge for a Top Four spot? I'm sure Mr Levy said so, and I believe everything he says. Well, if I happened to bump into him on the High Road and he wished me good morning my first inclination would be to check my watch, but apart from that…

We almost certainly approached Ramos in July or early August, then again two games into the season. By the time we finally secured him, yes, there was a rather urgent need to get us out of the shit, but that wasn't the original idea. The original idea was that Jol wasn't up to it, and that Ramos was.

The idea that the squad was Top Four material got kicked out of the window in January; we're going to be spending big again this summer. If we're knocking on the glass ceiling next October, great. But don't tell me Ramos will have succeeded in his original remit, because he patently hasn't. If anything, he appears to have given up.

 

[thfcsteff]

SpurSince57 said

<<Oh, I'm happy to be a contrarian!>>

...that's the spirit my friend!

<<Well, yes, we were in the relegation zone, but had in fact dropped just one point more than in last season's corresponding fixtures.>>

So? We were still in the relegation zone!!!!

<< But we were told, weren't we, that we had a squad ready to challenge for a Top Four spot?>>

You and I both know that wasn't quite the case. And further, I think Martin did too, but what always pissed me off about it was that instead of playing more hardball and telling them that 'hey! to do my fucking job i need TOTAL control or else I'm off', especially when he had the oppo post-Arnesen, Martin took the passive line and consistently talked about how we were the best of the rest', etc, etc...


<< I'm sure Mr Levy said so, and I believe everything he says. Well, if I happened to bump into him on the High Road and he wished me good morning my first inclination would be to check my watch, but apart from that…>>

I don't listen or not listen to Levy. He doesn't shape my views in either direction mate.

<<We almost certainly approached Ramos in July or early August, then again two games into the season. By the time we finally secured him, yes, there was a rather urgent need to get us out of the shit, but that wasn't the original idea. The original idea was that Jol wasn't up to it, and that Ramos was.>>

And you are, indeed, correct. And had the man ben given the kitty in, say, May, perhaps we would be in the CL next season!

<<The idea that the squad was Top Four material got kicked out of the window in January; >>

For me it got kicked out of he window in Sept 07...

<<we're going to be spending big again this summer. If we're knocking on the glass ceiling next October, great. But don't tell me Ramos will have succeeded in his original remit, because he patently hasn't. If anything, he appears to have given up.>>

If you mix tenses mate you dilute what you're trying to say. Let's just agree to dismiss your last 'present-tense' sentence, because it's simply not true (unless you mean that he's given up on the current squad in it's current format, in which case yes.)

 

[DoublePivot]

I'm sorry, but he motivated them perfectly until the PSV game. Now whatever happened there, we were dumped from that tourney at the last possible moment of that game. And one doesn't motivate penalties, you hope for the best.

At this point, how can anyone motivate a team? We are in Europe. Our spot was never more than plus or minus three. And we didn't have another competition. Moyes is considered a good motivator and look at where Everton's floundering after similiar circumstances. And they had much more to play for. You can't motivate anybody for nothing. You have to give them something to work towards. And while there were jobs to work towards, let's be honest, nobody is going on the dole, they are just moving to be rich elsewhere. And getting higher than West Ham, JUST AINT EFFING DOING IT.

I won't say that I'm not disappointed in the final months, but it bears no meaning on Ramos' ability.

 

[Mullers]

The carling cup run was impressive, everything after not so impressive. I believe Kaboul is right when he said we could have won the cup under Jol. However you look at it he hasn't been able to motivate the same players Jol had. Ferguson would never allow the players to have a drop in motivation like this in the same position. I believe we have an excellent manager but I'm very unimpressed with the end of season results, being thrashed by Birmingham and newcastle is shameful.

 

[lifeof...]

I think that is more of an offical line then the reality of the situation.

In my personal opinion (based on nothing more then what I think) Levy knew the team/squad still needed investment with in terms of some established stars to take us to the next level.

He had come to the conclusion that Jol was a good manager but not good enough for where he planned to take us (he had made his mind up he wanted Ramos a proven winner)

The move for Ramos did not go as smoothly as antisipated and he was forced to start the season with Jol, but held back funds for all but younger players and those he thought would appreciate in value should the next boss not want them.

When he finally got Ramos he spent big money in the first avaible window and has already done so for the next one (and will no doubt do a good deal more)

So I think he had a vision for Spurs as a top team and Jol wasn't a part of that vision, the top four ready squad line added pressure to Jol and made excuses to replace him with the man now wanted.

That sounds all quite plausible

 

[SpurSince57]

SpurSince57 said

For me it got kicked out of he window in Sept 07...

If you mix tenses mate you dilute what you're trying to say. Let's just agree to dismiss your last 'present-tense' sentence, because it's simply not true (unless you mean that he's given up on the current squad in it's current format, in which case yes.)

Well, me too, really, because the squad never was strong enough to challenge for the top four.

Perfectly grammatically correct!

Yes, he has given up on the squad in its current format. The question is, when did he do so?

 

[DC_Boy]

time will tell - but so far JR has done a very good job - when he came in we were in a mess - in the relegation zone and in big trouble in our UEFA group

under JR we have had a very good season -indeed a decade transforming season - our best for at least nine years - a trophy after nine barren years and comfortably clear of the relegation zone and qualified from our UEFA group

and of course qualified again for UEFA next season - something that was highly unlikely when JR took over

and 2 key factors in Modric signing were JR and UEFA football

some credit must go to Jol as most of the crucial players in our CC win were brought in during Jol's time

and of course as usual most of the credit goes to us fans who supply spurs with never ending stacks of cash to invest both wisely and foolishly and finally it paid off at Wembley

 

[justfookinhitit]

I don't believe we would have reached anywhere near the final of the Carling Cup under Jol. The morale in the squad was so, so poor when Jol left and Ramos definitely picked that up, along with injecting greater fitness in the squad which helped too.

Earlier in the season many of us on SC were saying that we shouldn't be judging Ramos on this season because it wasn't his squad etc etc. I'm still going to reserve judgment until next January.

For the record, I think that with a pre-season and the opportunity to build his own squad I believe he will create a spurs team of which we can be proud.

 

[DC_Boy]

I don't believe we would have reached anywhere near the final of the Carling Cup under Jol. .

agree with that jfk - to me the man city away game would have been where we stopped had Jol stayed

that game was truly heroic and we didn't have it in our locker this season till JR arrived

 

[Tequila]

Jols weakness was the big decisions IMO, taking berbs off when he shouldnt of, telling the team to sit deep to soak up pressure when we should have gone for another.

Thats where Ramos has impressed me, in other aspects, such as motivation and optermism about the club, Jol was da man.

It does matter to me that Jol loved spurs but Ramos im pretty sure does not.

Way to early to judge Ramos though, but hes for sure not a perfect manager.

 

[Bonjour]

Yes.

 

[Gilzeanking]

Oh c'mon ....' Jol would have won us the CC'

Bit of mad speculation there . We beat Chelsea and A5ena1 and an in form City , away with 10 men .

The number of defeats of 'top 4' teams in Jol's entire reign was what again ?

 

[DC_Boy]

Oh c'mon ....' Jol would have won us the CC'

Bit of mad speculation there . We beat Chelsea and A5ena1 and an in form City , away with 10 men .

The number of defeats of 'top 4' teams in Jol's entire reign was what again ?

well saifd GK - to me MJ deffo wouldn't have won us the carling - had he stayed we'd not be in Europe now -and in a weak position to attract stars like Modric - TBH I think he'd be gone by this summer anyway

 

[fazza]

Is anyone else just a little concerned about the lack of effort amongst our squad ? New manager , big reputation , playing for their futures etc. And yet our season ended with the LC. Can't imagine Mourinho, Whinger or Sir Alex putting up with such lack of professionalism. At the end of the day we have to pay to watch them going through the motions and I think Sir Alex particularly would have grabbed a few by the scruff of the neck Dave Mackay style. Anyway the start of next season will tell us a lot.

Back to Back UEFA cup winners with Sevilla tells me he can motivate his team, problem is most of the squad know that there leaving in the summer so there not gonna give 100% now.

 

[marion52]

I don't believe we would have reached anywhere near the final of the Carling Cup under Jol. The morale in the squad was so, so poor when Jol left and Ramos definitely picked that up, along with injecting greater fitness in the squad which helped too.

Earlier in the season many of us on SC were saying that we shouldn't be judging Ramos on this season because it wasn't his squad etc etc. I'm still going to reserve judgment until next January.

For the record, I think that with a pre-season and the opportunity to build his own squad I believe he will create a spurs team of which we can be proud.

Wasn't that a bit chicken and egg though, once the board made noises about him not being up to the job it must have been difficult to motivate the squad.
Personally I am still worried about squad morale because there seems a lot of rumours of unrest, Kaboul just being the latest.
Lets hope the new season is a clean slate and we pick up where we left off after the CCF!

 

[justfookinhitit]

Wasn't that a bit chicken and egg though, once the board made noises about him not being up to the job it must have been difficult to motivate the squad.
Personally I am still worried about squad morale because there seems a lot of rumours of unrest, Kaboul just being the latest.
Lets hope the new season is a clean slate and we pick up where we left off after the CCF!

The way I look at it, if Ramos had not taken over from Jol when he did the morale of the team would have continued to plummet. All I am doing is looking at what happened after the pivotal moment when Jol left and Ramos arrived. And had Ramos continued in his job until christmas, or Easter, or now, I really cannot believe that we would have gotten anywhere near the CC Final, let alone win it.

 

[sloth]

I cannot believe the snide comments from some on here. Some of you are just young with goldfish style perspective, others (SS) should simply know better.

Ramos is a fine manager who came in and rescued our season. From a backward moving start with a team in absolute crisis full of bewildered players whose confidence was so shot that an opposing team merely had to hint at crossing the ball for them all to cower away, Ramos got us believing. We went from strength to strength, beat Arsenal 5-1 and won the Carling Cup coming from a goal down against Chelsea in the final. Our season only ended when Jenas had his penalty saved in the shoot-out against PSV.

That's the reality.

If since then the team's lacked motivation then that reflects badly on the players and on specific players. As head coach Ramos will have learnt as much from that reaction as in the Carling Cup run and no doubt will take action accordingly.

But really, it's too much, to try and compare Ramos' apples with Jol's pears. Let it go why don't you. Jol was sacked (and rightly so imo) for the ineptitude of his team this year, his poor decision making under pressure and his public lack of ambition and unwillingness to work within the club's structure. You can disagree with the decision, but these are the reasons. Jol had consecutive pre-season's which led to lack-lustre starts, the second of which left clear psychological scarring on what previously had been top four players. "Top four players!" you laugh, but until this season and other than our poor start last, we were in the top four, ppg, for virtually a year and a half.

Now Ramos has a chance at doing pre-season his way, he'll discard the players he feels aren't up to it, which will mean curtains for Jol favourites (ruined by the dutch man btw) such as Dawson and Robbo, he'll benefit from what the board has learned from the mistakes they made which contributed to this season's debacle, but most of all he'll be able to prepare the team in the fashion he wants and he believes is best to hit the ground running and keep running till the end of the season. By which time, we hope, we'll be in the top three or four and pushing for a place in the CL and, who knows, maybe even have put up a challenge for the Championship. If you want to judge then, go ahead, but in the meantime how about a bit of perspective eh? A bit of pride in yourselves. Instead of this, frankly, slightly embarrassing, carping at the edges. Jol's gone. Ramos is here. And he's actually pretty damn good :up:

 

[eddiebailey]

The move for Ramos did not go as smoothly as antisipated and he was forced to start the season with Jol, but held back funds for all but younger players and those he thought would appreciate in value should the next boss not want them.

If that interpretation of events is correct, Levy is guilty of effectively writing off our season.

 

[eddiebailey]

I don't believe we would have reached anywhere near the final of the Carling Cup under Jol.

Well, not after the Board sawed his legs off, no.

 

[tRiKS]

I still think it's a concious effort to rest himself mentally till pre season. Despite his choice not to give rousing half time speaches since uefa knock out and despite his unwillingness to show anymore tactical twists and changes to opposition managers, pundits players and fans a like we still easily (by the opposition managers own admition)could have been a cricket socre ahead in all but the newcastle game in our recent run. one poor game is acceptable without even trying.

I actually think our lack of effort makes a mockery out of the releagation teams bitter battle. they come and fight for all they have and still can't beat a team playing at 70%... thats a good sign for what were capapble of not a bad one.

our foul conceeded count has drop to friendly proportions we;'ve now had 3 bookings in 7 gmaes of football!?!?! two were from o'hara.

he's playing a very good game is mr ramos. a very long and thoughtful game that will benefit us next season in so many ways.