Match Threads Brighton vs Spurs - Match Thread - Day 20

[cider spurs]

Our players do know that it's a football match right. ??.

I've seen more effort from Mildred up the road taking her dog for a walk to get some lockdown exercise. ?

 

[Typical Spurs]

I was there. Stoke Away. That was halftime. Chiriches sent off. Dier right back.
It was the worst I'd seen us live.

There were times under Poch when we were completely helpless

 

[daveduvet]

. Just read thru most of the comments . So glad I switched off early....

 

[Jay.]

If only Poch had been given transfer funds. What could have been....
...this is on the owners I’m afraid

 

[bozzaSPUR]

. Just read thru most of the comments . So glad I switched off early....

So glad I didn’t switch on!

 

[CrazyHeart]

I'd agree with you if i could see a game plan. I have no idea what the players are meant to be doing on the pitch and I don't think they do either.

Fair point - However, I do believe the game plan is there... (v. high level): when under attack, then break with a fast counter. When attacking, feed front three beating the offside trap. Only thing is that the players have to step up to pull it off. It looks like we were pedestrian on the breaks, missing the runs and suffering poor form of the front three (it was especially disturbing to see Lucas struggle the way he did). So, in all fairness I wouldn't put everything at Jose's doorstep.

This season, the boom bust cycles are also more frequent and more volatile due to its atypical circumstances. One only needs to the look at the league positions of certain 'lesser teams' throughout this season to illustrate this point. It's just a bad patch and it'll pass... if this season showed anything, it's just that! Jose Mourinho is one of, if not THE best manager in the world and we're lucky to have him.

 

[degoose]

. Just read thru most of the comments . So glad I switched off early....

I turned off at 60 mins. I have not done that in a very very long time and even when i did years ago i turned it back on (That was the villa game on our 125th year) From what i understand i didn't miss much.

I turned it off though because i could just see nothing changing in the match, i just didn't have the belief the team would suddenly started controlling the game. I have no idea what happened at half time in that liverpool game but they clearly have not gotten over it yet.

 

[rossdapep]

Exactly. Recruitment has been poor, levy and hitchen are taking the piss if they think we can’t improve on what we have. So many players from other supposedly inferior teams would walk into our first 11 and squad.

Because 'I hate January' and 'deals are difficult to do'.

This outlook is not one you wish to hear. You don't hear these noises coming out of Leicester's team.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Because 'I hate January' and 'deals are difficult to do'.

This outlook is not one you wish to hear. You don't hear these noises coming out of Leicester's team.

Even Southampton are looking to do something. Liverpool have moved to cover a problem, the only clubs not seemingly do anything are United and City ... Villa went out and found something that adds to the squad, here we are sat on our hands with, as many have rightly pointed out, form heading in the wrong direction with clearly problems within the squad ...

 

[Gspurs11]

Fair point - However, I do believe the game plan is there... (v. high level): when under attack, then break with a fast counter. When attacking, feed front three beating the offside trap. Only thing is that the players have to step up to pull it off. It looks like we were pedestrian on the breaks, missing the runs and suffering poor form of the front three (it was especially disturbing to see Lucas struggle the way he did). So, in all fairness I wouldn't put everything at Jose's doorstep.

This season, the boom bust cycles are also more frequent and more volatile due to its atypical circumstances. One only needs to the look at the league positions of certain 'lesser teams' throughout this season to illustrate this point. It's just a bad patch and it'll pass... if this season showed anything, it's just that! Jose Mourinho is one of, if not THE best manager in the world and we're lucky to have him.

The thing is, the game plan you outlined is currently quite easy to negate now teams have figured out how to play against us. You can't really counter Brighton and we didn't really create many chances of note last night and yes, some of that falls on the heads of the players, of course, but it's up to the manager to innovate, problem-solve, and adapt to opposition; I currently don't think he does any of that.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

I turned off at 60 mins. I have not done that in a very very long time and even when i did years ago i turned it back on (That was the villa game on our 125th year) From what i understand i didn't miss much.

I turned it off though because i could just see nothing changing in the match, i just didn't have the belief the team would suddenly started controlling the game. I have no idea what happened at half time in that liverpool game but they clearly have not gotten over it yet.

It is your duty to suffer like the rest of us. We were slightly better in the last 30 mins. Vinicius almost scored.
It’s back to a back six vs Chelsea . Hoping for the best.

 

[idontgetit]

Look at this shite, the definition of a badly organised side:

Everyone treading on everyone elses toes and the entirety of our attacking width coming from Sissoko and Davies. Sissoko tried to cross five times and fucked up four of them, and lost the ball 23 times in a single game.

 

[DanNolan]

Back to a back 6 against Chelsea... I fucking hope so?? We were boring as hell but at least you could see a plan and a style of what we were doing. Why in earth did we change.
We had a pretty good defensive record and then were unlucky against Liverpool away, then palace we were good first half.. dropped off and then good again last 15. Yes that’s poor but the capability to win was still there if we just didn’t sit. Didn’t need to change everything.
all of a sudden we start moving things around trying winks in cm, integrating Rodon?! And playing wing backs to get Davies in? Of course we then start conceding and losing games.What happened to make this change so drastic?!
Playing 4 at the back with sissoko and hjojberg means the other team didn’t find space in behind etc... goal yesterday Davies caught very wide Rodon and the 3cbs all close enough to throw a blanket over. That never happens if we play 4. Same as mane getting in finding space between cab and wing back.
You play wing backs to overload attacking wise in wide areas, it makes no sense to play it without actual attacking wing backs.... Davies aurier sissoko are not this. Id love to know what prompted the change as we look clueless

 

[GutBucket]

Look at this shite, the definition of a badly organised side:

View attachment 81852


Everyone treading on everyone elses toes and the entirety of our attacking width coming from Sissoko and Davies. Sissoko tried to cross five times and fucked up four of them, and lost the ball 23 times in a single game.

Looks like a good set-up with Regi and Aurier in the side, pointless otherwise.

 

[idontgetit]

Looks like a good set-up with Regi and Aurier in the side, pointless otherwise.

Really though you'd need a target man otherwise it's a bit pointless dominating in wide areas.

 

[Blackrat1299]

I am begining to think, looking at his behaviour, Jose holds grudges, and the team is suffering because of it.

 

[tvspur]

It’s Monday morning, the day after the Brighton fiasco and my mood has not lightened nor changed. I am not a regular contributor to this group but I need this outlet or somewhere to vent my continuing anger and dissatisfaction.

Having been a Spurs fan for nearly 60 years I don’t think I have ever felt more depressed and dispirited about the club that I love, and eclipses even those feelings I had during the very ordinary days we endured during the 70s-00s. At least in those days we didn’t expect that much, maybe a cup or 2, but invariably nowhere near the League title. I guess the Poch era heralded a level of expectation that raised the bar, which makes it even more painful for us fans to see us slide into a level of such mediocrity.

It was the manner of our defeat that bothers me most. We had absolutely nothing worthy of note from start to finish. No movement, no leadership, no idea, no energy, no commitment __ the list goes on. My paper gave ratings of mainly 6’s for our players. 6 = average; "Average" __ if only!

Even West Brom and Sheff Utd try to play a bit of football. Our midfield stinks with only Hojbjerg trying to cover the gaps left by his teammates. The rest of them can’t attack, nor defend meaning that our back-4/back-3 are constantly exposed (btw I thought Toby was immense). Significantly our main playmaker __ Ndombele __ got his first touch after 12 minutes! And how we can have such a technically challenged midfielder __ Sissoko __ playing as a wing-back is beyond me.

Rant over, I’m going back to bed.

 

[DiVaio]

Look at this shite, the definition of a badly organised side:

View attachment 81852


Everyone treading on everyone elses toes and the entirety of our attacking width coming from Sissoko and Davies. Sissoko tried to cross five times and fucked up four of them, and lost the ball 23 times in a single game.

Passmap will always look shite when they don't acknowledge the change of formation and squad. Good passmap would to that.

 

[CrazyHeart]

The thing is, the game plan you outlined is currently quite easy to negate now teams have figured out how to play against us. You can't really counter Brighton and we didn't really create many chances of note last night and yes, some of that falls on the heads of the players, of course, but it's up to the manager to innovate, problem-solve, and adapt to opposition; I currently don't think he does any of that.

Well, the game plan I outlined was very high level as stated - the innovation you mentioned could well be in the details that we don't have access to. But even still - to say that a luminary of Mourinho's stature has no game plan, especially given some of the Bruce Lee style ass kickings we've given top teams this season is a little harsh. In my opinion, we should give him a full season in charge and see what results emerge. Sure, if these poor results continue for all remaining months in all remaining matches in all remaining competitions (which they won't) and we fall short of our objectives - then I'll be right up there with you, levelling the same criticism.

 

[rez9000]

The thing is, the game plan you outlined is currently quite easy to negate now teams have figured out how to play against us. You can't really counter Brighton and we didn't really create many chances of note last night and yes, some of that falls on the heads of the players, of course, but it's up to the manager to innovate, problem-solve, and adapt to opposition; I currently don't think he does any of that.

This is sophistry - its essentially saying that the only thing that matters is tactics. It also suggests that every other club employs super-secretive tactics or changes them every match.

Every club has a basic manner of play determined by the personnel they have and the wishes of their manager. Every manager worth their salt can identify the tactics employed by their opposition on a basic level by watching them play for only a short period, never mind the analysts employed by the elite clubs. Any manager can 'find out' the way the opposition are going to play before a ball is kicked in anger.

So we know, for instance, that Liverpool like to switch play using their fullbacks, or Leicester like to play with a rapid counter or that Man City look to pass the ball into the box. Have they all been 'found out' too? Of course not.

Tactics only play one part of a football match. The players actually playing the match are far more important. Would Liverpool or Man City be quite so lethal if their players only put in "50%" effort? Would Leeds be quite so mercurial?

Look at Leicester's title run. Are we seriously suggesting that throughout their run, not one single opposition manager had the wherewithal to work out precisely what their vulnerabilities were and exploit them and so demonstrate to the rest of the League how to stop the madness? How come they weren't 'found out?'

We should put it to the test: One team paying at full intensity against another that treats it as a gentle preseason warm up. I know who I'd put my money on. But according to the 'found-out' narrative, the players are all immaterial. So why play the games at all? Here's an idea: let's just have a 'tactics panel' that tests the relative knowledge of the two managers and the one who can explain the opposition's tactics better gets the three points. Because we've been found out, so there's no reason to play matches at all, is there?

This isn't Football Manager. There's no 'super-tactic' that managers can click that breaks the game. If it was, then how come we're not losing every match? Surely when Liverpool were helping out Marine, they could have whispered in their manager's ear, 'pssst - this is the tactic you need to employ to beat Tottenham.' He would have then clicked on 'Tactics', moved his chaps around on the screen and the minnowy Marine would have had a giant-killing.

The 'found-out' idea is just another lazy narrative - a melange of idiotic Sky-esque punditry, mixed with Football Manager, FIFA and PES as if they relates in any real way to what actually happens in football. Nicely packaged and swallowed whole.