Berbatov and Spurs

[hellava_tough]

Skillful players like Berbs are at their best with 2 other players of the same wavelength and playing in a triangle. Right now he only has Keane anywhere near him. I'd think that playing Taarabt in central midfield will give us that threesome needed to break up massed defenses with quick triangular one-twos and the option of one of them dribbling through as the other two breaking to either side offering two passing options.

Certainly an intriguing proposition.

Who would be 'The Third Man' and what formation would you adopt? 4-4-2 or 4-3-3?

 

[Marty]

Berbs and Keane would both be 25 goal a season men if they had some more creative help from midfield, either through crosses from wingers or killer passes from people like Huddlestone from further back.

Sadly both those dimensions seem to be lacking from our game apart from those few games where Huddlestone plays a blinder.

 

[chrissivad]

If we take Man Utd as an examle, I think that Berbatov would improve their squad, but not their first 11. That's not to say that he'd be a flop at Man Utd, however.

Berbatov would play a diffrent role in ManU's team than he hoes with ours.

With us Berbatov is the creator, not may of the team can do this so we look to Berbtov for it. In ManU's team he wont need to be reliyed on as much, not with their midfeild anyway.

 

[hellava_tough]

Berbs and Keane would both be 25 goal a season men if they had some more creative help from midfield, either through crosses from wingers or killer passes from people like Huddlestone from further back.

Sadly both those dimensions seem to be lacking from our game apart from those few games where Huddlestone plays a blinder.

I think that this seems to be a reoccuring school of thought; namely, when our midfield has more quality in it Keane and Berbatov will theoretically perform to a higher standard. I suppose we'll never know for sure until it happens.

In the meanwhile our midfield is thus:

Malbranque Jenas Hudd/Zok Lennon

Out of those 5 players who would you drop/replace and what system would you play to ensure service to the front two?

We (obviously) need a LW and a DM. We also need a right winger who can compete with Lennon, who's had an inconsistant season (I think I was debating this point with 'Juande' on another thread).

I'd actually like to see Malbranque in the centre instead of Jenas, but don't feel we can do this until we get a quality DM.

 

[hellava_tough]

Berbatov would play a diffrent role in ManU's team than he hoes with ours.

With us Berbatov is the creator, not may of the team can do this so we look to Berbtov for it. In ManU's team he wont need to be reliyed on as much, not with their midfeild anyway.

I'm not so sure Chris. I don't think Berbatov chooses to play for us in the style that he does; I think it's just his style.

If he went to Man Utd he wouldn't suddenly become a rampaging centre forward running off the last defender and banging in goals from all over the park, which is basically what Man Utd want.

 

[Marty]

As you say, mainly.

A solid hard man ala Poulsen to give Jenas more attacking freedom, hopefully that will help him create more for us.
A new proper out-and-out left winger who can cross the ball, meaning Malbranque can be backup for Jenas, leftie and Lennon.
A proper winger to compete with Lennon wouldn't be a bad idea either, but if we get that leftie it's not quite as necessary as Malbranque can fill in.

 

[Spurs_Q8]

I could agree about 'smilar' player as you said, becuase both don't have enough pace, but coming deep and hold the ball up isn't problem, because this role wasn't given for both in one time in the pitch. under MJ, Keane played as creative player for him and Berbatov as Target man. but under JR, Berba played as creative player for Keane who looked our target man.

it was the manager thoughts, MJ prefered it because Berba is tall and he can use his head better than Keane in the box. As i know don't exaclty Ramos idea, but may be he think Berbatov is very skillfull player and that's could offer 'Kanoute' role in Sevilla, he could think Berba touches is unstoppable which take the pressure off on Keane. Both plans wored IMO.

They are smilar player because they are both lack of pace ( hopefully Keane can bring back his pace under this fitnees regime ) , and in terms of that, we could need pacy 3rd striker to offer something which lacked in our attacking football ( only Jenas & Lennon are quick, Malbranque, Berba & Keane aren't ) and that's all i think about your thread.

so, it is good chance here to say something 'special' about Berba, i don't think Berba liked to come deep, he looks like to do Managers orders for the best for the team, he also come back to defend in set-pieces as we were very bad in this season, He really won my all heart recently because he is trying to give 100% for the team. A type of these strikers can't be happy to take these rules as as his natural target man, but he never moans about these things despite it is reduced his chances to score goals ( which is the best thing and feel for any striker ) , Did you see Drogba, Torres, Adebayor etc doing something like this ? Berba is very special and deserve every praise for what he did recently for us. I really hope Ramos is going to strenghten the team in the Mid. and huge chances around him and other Key players here to help him getting his best football here.

 

[diegooners]

I like your post. Very good. However the issue is that Berbatov does not naturally drop deep. If you saw him play for Leverkusen, who had Shneider, or even when he first came to spurs before he had adapted, he was on the last man all the time. Making run after run...

The reason he drops deep NOW is because we have wingers who can't cross for him (at Leverkusen 90% of his goals were headers, tap ins or just generally within 12 yards of the goal) or a really good passing centre mid (when Huddlestone isnt playing).

Just watch how much further up Berbatov usually plays when Huddlestone comes on. Its very interesting. This is why should he go to United, he would score 35 goals a season due to the fact that he would be playing at the point of their arrowhead.

The simple fact is he is miles away from all our other players, hence drops deeper etc. And if push comes to shove, Berbatov is a far better footballer than Keane.

Berby would fetch roughly 30 million this summer if we sold him, and he's only six months younger than Keane. Were a bid to come in for Keane, I could honestly not see it being anything higher than 10 million, for which we would never sell him anyway. Dunno if that answers your question but there you are.

 

[diegooners]

I'm not so sure Chris. I don't think Berbatov chooses to play for us in the style that he does; I think it's just his style.

If he went to Man Utd he wouldn't suddenly become a rampaging centre forward running off the last defender and banging in goals from all over the park, which is basically what Man Utd want.

Hadn't seen this. You should watch some of his Leverkusen clips. They really are intriguing...

 

[Spurs_Q8]

I like your post. Very good. However the issue is that Berbatov does not naturally drop deep. If you saw him play for Leverkusen, who had Shneider, or even when he first came to spurs before he had adapted, he was on the last man all the time. Making run after run...

The reason he drops deep NOW is because we have wingers who can't cross for him (at Leverkusen 90% of his goals were headers, tap ins or just generally within 12 yards of the goal) or a really good passing centre mid (when Huddlestone isnt playing).

Just watch how much further up Berbatov usually plays when Huddlestone comes on. Its very interesting. This is why should he go to United, he would score 35 goals a season due to the fact that he would be playing at the point of their arrowhead.

The simple fact is he is miles away from all our other players, hence drops deeper etc. And if push comes to shove, Berbatov is a far better footballer than Keane.

Berby would fetch roughly 30 million this summer if we sold him, and he's only six months younger than Keane. Were a bid to come in for Keane, I could honestly not see it being anything higher than 10 million, for which we would never sell him anyway. Dunno if that answers your question but there you are.

I agree about the first half of your post, but not with the 2nd one, Berbatov could be more skillfull and wanted by other club. But that doesn't mean he is a far better footballer than Keane.

The spirit which played by Keane offer something special to any team in modern football. Even Berbatov missing it. RK scored a lot of goals in 2nd half of last two season and score too this 1st half. can you counting ? let alone we saw dropping and creating chances. Remember the team against Blackburn before 'Ghaly/Keane' subs and at least, tell me if Berba can do that.

Robbie Keane is intelligent player and under-rated. He is LEGEND.

 

[diegooners]

We all love Keano. It's impossible not to admire his fight for the cause etc. But do you think any club would pay 30 million pounds for him?

 

[bugsdad]

could you imagine him in uniteds side, wow.

sometimes i wish, for him, he would leave just to see how good he actually is or can become.

Unfortunately I think you'll see that next season.

 

[double0]

I posed the question a season ago who got the better deal?...Arsenal with Adebaybor or Spurs with Berbatov!!?

Personally I think Berbatov has to up his game and be much more clincial....the game against PSV IMO he should be been subbed.

 

[Kendall]

If we take Man Utd as an examle, I think that Berbatov would improve their squad, but not their first 11. That's not to say that he'd be a flop at Man Utd, however.

He would definitely improve their first 11 and would start in every game partnering either Rooney or Tevez.

United are often crying out for a tall target man who can make something out of nothing in the box.

Berbatov would complete Man Utd.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Over the past couple of months my mates and I have been keenly watching Spurs (what-else are we going to do with our free time) on TV and at WHL, and an interesting if some what controversial debate has arisen. Basically, half of them think Berbatov is the mutt’s nuts, and the other half think that although he’s a player of raw talent, he’s not consistent enough.

So what do I think? Well, on the one hand Berbatov is a very skilful player indeed. He’s got a majestic first touch, close control, skills that make most players envious and great movement around the box. These attributes are obvious for all to see, and there have been many column inches in the papers, and football websites, devoted to the subject. I believe Berbatov is the 3rd best ‘Assister’ in the Premiership (Sky Sports using Opta). I even think that one of the main criticisms of the striker, namely his attitude and possible laziness, isn’t really that valid; as long as you’re producing the goods on the pitch, you can sun-bathe for half the match, for all I care.

However, I do understand why some of my mates criticise the Bulgarian for being inconsistent. How many times does Berbatov go for a high ball and shove the defender in the back, resulting in a free-kick for the opposition? How many times does he try a little flick or a pass that simply fails? How many times does he fail to hit the target with his wayward shooting?

I think the above are valid criticisms, but for me the biggest problem with Berbatov is fitting him into a side with Robbie Keane. WTF I hear many of you cry! The Berbatov/Keane partnership is excellent. Well, it’s good, there’s no doubt in that. The trouble is though that Keane and Berbatov are very similar players; they like to come deep, hold the ball up, look up for a player to pass to, take on players, etc. Neither, however, is a striker that will lead the line, and bang in 25+ league goals a season; a real goal poacher. I feel that Spurs need a striker like that if they want to compete at the highest level. Incidentally, it is for this reason that I don’t think Berbs will go to Manchester United. United already have two players (Rooney, Tevez) who have skills and come deep to collect the ball, just like Berbatov. United are after an out and out goal-scorer, not a skilful ‘forward’.

Ultimately, either Keane OR Berbatov needs to play up-front with an out-and-out goal-scorer. Neither of these players are going to be happy playing second-fiddle, so a choice would have to be made; sell Keane or sell Berbatov. In my opinion, I’d keep Keane because he seems to be more industrious and adds to the team-spirit.

Anyway, what do you guys think? Let the abuse towards me commence!

I am sure you'll get some "how very fucking dare you" posts but you actually make some good points. There are games where Berbatov just doesn't show up (getting rarer under Ramos I have to say) and games where a for a player of his ability he doesn't impose himself enough and times in games where he gives the ball away too cheaply. And I see what you are saying about ManU but think that he can actually play as the "main striker" and will score a shit load if given less responsibility. He is given that (Kanoute) role at spurs by default as he's the only one who can do it. keane is scared of contact and Bent's not good enough.

Under Ramos though his bad days have become less frequent and we are now seeing industry with the skill. I would love to see us sign a top drawer CM and top drawer creative player and a striker that could play with Berbatov but do some of the donkey work for him (Kanoute ???) and for him to stay because for all my quibbles he is class and in an even better side he would be even better.

 

[C0YS]

I would be vey supprised if Keane failes to score 15 goals this season, I mean hes only got to score 5/6 more. they will both get +20 goals this season again istablishing themselfs as the front parring who get more goals then any othe team!!

 

[waresy]

do we need a out and out goalscorer?

dropping deep or attacking from deep is what utd do very well. Tevez, Ronney and Ronaldo all interchange, the only 'striker' that they have to lead the line is saha who isnt in the team very often.

Keane will get more that 25 this season, Berbatov may hit the 20-25 mark but that depends if we get our league form back to a decent level.

 

[DC_Boy]

I'm confident, barring injuries, that Berbs will hit the 20+ mark this season - he's got 16/17 already hasn't he - and is now taking the pens - shame he wasn't v Arsenal & West Ham

 

[inegve]

Both of them are capable of scoring 25+ if we had a real left winger who can deliver balls into the box and maybe one good central midfielder.But we don't so they go deep, simple as.

 

[spurs12345]

Can i just say people often say Berbs doesn't show commitment. Well against PSV he was my man of the match by far, he seemed focused on the cause, his touch was amazing and i saw no lack of commitment. I disagree about the person who said Ramos should have took him off, for me the game lightened up when he was on the ball.

Berb can get frustrated with the side, but tbh, if i could play for any side in the world, i would to! Like said above, our crossing is an area that vastly needs improving on, along with set peices in my opinion. For our height on corners and set pieces (chimmy, king, woodgate, berb) I dont feel we convert enough chances.

Keano plays a big part in Berb's success because he links the midfield with attack. Without this linking person, it often seems the midfield run out of supply for attack and go on pointless runs with no end result. Your point about an out and out goalscorer is vaild, I'm not too sure how this would work but what about a 4-3-3 with keano playing a kaka type role, Berbatov playing slightly infront and bringing an out and out goalscorer in to play deep? Obviously it would have implications on our whole system but it's just a suggestion!

On a seprate note, does it sometimes seem like our players are reluctant to shoot from outside the box? I'm not bad mouthing the team for not piling in long shots, but it seems that sometimes they dont have that desire or confidence in themselves to have a crack...Anyways that was an un-related topic but just something thats been on my mind recently!