Arsenal

[Marty]

Legit 'technically' perhaps but it sounds to me like it was morally disgraceful and devoid of any sportsmanship. Typical goon scum.

Are you serious?

De Gea wasn't so hurt he couldn't have defended his goal, instead he lay there like a coward and assumed there would be a whistle. He got his just desserts.

 

[dontcallme]

Legit 'technically' perhaps but it sounds to me like it was morally disgraceful and devoid of any sportsmanship. Typical goon scum.

Maybe you should watch it.

 

[slartibartfast]

Thought I'd reply in here, as it's a bit more relevant.

I don't think they've had any particularly good results, which would act as a barometer of Arteta's ability.

They've lost to City, Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool (and even Brentford!!).

They've drawn with in-form teams they should otherwise beat; Brighton and Palace.

They've beaten underperforming 'good' teams; Leicester and us.

And they've beaten relegation fodder; Burnley, Norwich, Newcastle, Watford and Villa.


It's not really a criticism of them per se; they can only beat who's in front of them.

But I'd like to see how they fair against Wolves and West Ham, and then top half teams in the second half of the season.

They've even got Everton next, who have a much better squad compared to their league standing, so could jam 3pts, but lose or draw in the return fixture, once Rafa has been replaced (or sorted things out).

Tbh, I can see their form dropping off a cliff come Feb and March of next year.

Agree. Fact is, regardless of how good or shit Arteta is, that squad is pretty shit. They haven't a single player who would get into an Arsenal team of 15 odd years ago before they bagan to slide. Saka is the best player they have and I really rate him. Rowe is 2nd. The rest are medium to poor quality.

 

[Spurslove]

Maybe you should watch it.

Meh.

 

[olliec]

They got a new video on aftv called who will get top 4. Arsenal or united. Basically wrote off everyone else already the arrogant pricks.

 

[spursfan77]

Thought I'd reply in here, as it's a bit more relevant.

I don't think they've had any particularly good results, which would act as a barometer of Arteta's ability.

They've lost to City, Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool (and even Brentford!!).

They've drawn with in-form teams they should otherwise beat; Brighton and Palace.

They've beaten underperforming 'good' teams; Leicester and us.

And they've beaten relegation fodder; Burnley, Norwich, Newcastle, Watford and Villa.


It's not really a criticism of them per se; they can only beat who's in front of them.

But I'd like to see how they fair against Wolves and West Ham, and then top half teams in the second half of the season.

They've even got Everton next, who have a much better squad compared to their league standing, so could jam 3pts, but lose or draw in the return fixture, once Rafa has been replaced (or sorted things out).

Tbh, I can see their form dropping off a cliff come Feb and March of next year.

I agree with you completely but I think they’ll beat Everton. They are utterly dreadful and on a downward spiral. Our result against them looks increasingly poor (but understandable timing wise).

 

[Spurslove]

They got a new video on aftv called who will get top 4. Arsenal or united. Basically wrote off everyone else already the arrogant pricks.

It's part of the reason I refuse to watch them. Ever, unless they're playing us.

 

[Spurslove]

Legit 'technically' perhaps but it sounds to me like it was morally disgraceful and devoid of any sportsmanship. Typical goon scum.

All those of you who've awarded me with a 'DISAGREE' token should have a word with yourselves FFS.

They scored a goal while the opposition goalie was lying down injured rather than do the decent thing and stop play, so the guy could get some attention and to my mind, that just about sums them all up so you can take all your 'DISAGREE' tokens and shove 'em.

If a Spurs player did that, I'd be ashamed, so stop defending them.

 

[dontcallme]

All those of you who've awarded me with a 'DISAGREE' token should have a word with yourselves FFS.

They scored a goal while the opposition goalie was lying down injured rather than do the decent thing and stop play, so the guy could get some attention and to my mind, that just about sums them all up so you can take all your 'DISAGREE' tokens and shove 'em.

If a Spurs player did that, I'd be ashamed, so stop defending them.

You haven't even seen it.

 

[luRRka]

All those of you who've awarded me with a 'DISAGREE' token should have a word with yourselves FFS.

They scored a goal while the opposition goalie was lying down injured rather than do the decent thing and stop play, so the guy could get some attention and to my mind, that just about sums them all up so you can take all your 'DISAGREE' tokens and shove 'em.

If a Spurs player did that, I'd be ashamed, so stop defending them.

I'd be fucking livid if our players didn't try and score in a situation like that

 

[mr ashley]

All those of you who've awarded me with a 'DISAGREE' token should have a word with yourselves FFS.

They scored a goal while the opposition goalie was lying down injured rather than do the decent thing and stop play, so the guy could get some attention and to my mind, that just about sums them all up so you can take all your 'DISAGREE' tokens and shove 'em.

If a Spurs player did that, I'd be ashamed, so stop defending them.

I’ve got no problem with you hating Arsenal, there are untold reasons for that

but to use this one as the stick to beat them with is irrational and a bit odd.
Smith- Rowe can’t see de gea on the floor, and as Atkinson is trying to get out of his way is equally unaware. So hardly shameful behaviour.
The fact that (as others have already pointed out) de gea wasnt actually injured at all just adds further weight to the argument that United need no sympathy.

so in fact, rather than be embarrassed if one of our players had done that, I’m sad that it wasn’t one of ours paying back some of the long list of shocking decisions we’ve had against us at OT.

If you haven’t even watched it, I’m not sure how you can be so convinced.

 

['O Zio]

All those of you who've awarded me with a 'DISAGREE' token should have a word with yourselves FFS.

They scored a goal while the opposition goalie was lying down injured rather than do the decent thing and stop play, so the guy could get some attention and to my mind, that just about sums them all up so you can take all your 'DISAGREE' tokens and shove 'em.

If a Spurs player did that, I'd be ashamed, so stop defending them.

If you haven't even seen it how on earth can you have such a strong opinion about it either way? If you want to act like a six-year-old and refuse to watch any clips of Arsenal, that's up to you, but you're in no position to be telling anyone to have a word with themselves. Quite the opposite in fact given that I assume from this that you're the type who doesn't eat Kit-Kats because they're red etc. and the like.

The way I see it (having actually watched the footage):

1. It was another Utd player who "injured" De Gea
2. He clearly wasn't that injured because he subsequently played the rest of the match. You're acting like he was on the ground with a broken leg or something. In fact, he was just milking it on the assumption that he'd automatically get a whistle and, therefore, snatch Arsenal's chance to get a goal from the follow-up.
3. I'm not even sure Smith-Rowe knew fully what was going on. The ball fell to him immediately afterwards and he instinctively took the shot. It's possible he didn't even have the opportunity to take stock of the moral rights and wrongs of scoring in that situation.

IMO if you start disallowing goals like that, it just gives keepers license to stop play whenever they like and prevent secondary attacks in the aftermath of a corner being cleared. It's be a matter of time before the more pragmatic managers started using it as a tactic to ensure that corners were a "one and done" affair

 

[dontcallme]

If you haven't even seen it how on earth can you have such a strong opinion about it either way? If you want to act like a six-year-old and refuse to watch any clips of Arsenal, that's up to you, but you're in no position to be telling anyone to have a word with themselves. Quite the opposite in fact given that I assume from this that you're the type who doesn't eat Kit-Kats because they're red etc. and the like.

The way I see it (having actually watched the footage):

1. It was another Utd player who "injured" De Gea
2. He clearly wasn't that injured because he subsequently played the rest of the match. You're acting like he was on the ground with a broken leg or something. In fact, he was just milking it on the assumption that he'd automatically get a whistle and, therefore, snatch Arsenal's chance to get a goal from the follow-up.
3. I'm not even sure Smith-Rowe knew fully what was going on. The ball fell to him immediately afterwards and he instinctively took the shot. It's possible he didn't even have the opportunity to take stock of the moral rights and wrongs of scoring in that situation.

IMO if you start disallowing goals like that, it just gives keepers license to stop play whenever they like and prevent secondary attacks in the aftermath of a corner being cleared. It's be a matter of time before the more pragmatic managers started using it as a tactic to ensure that corners were a "one and done" affair

Agree.

On the point about whether they did anything wrong, point 3 is it for me. I'm not sure he knew what was happening. I think the ball came to him and he took a shot, nothing more.

 

[Spurslove]

I’ve got no problem with you hating Arsenal, there are untold reasons for that

but to use this one as the stick to beat them with is irrational and a bit odd.
Smith- Rowe can’t see de gea on the floor, and as Atkinson is trying to get out of his way is equally unaware. So hardly shameful behaviour.
The fact that (as others have already pointed out) de gea wasnt actually injured at all just adds further weight to the argument that United need no sympathy.

so in fact, rather than be embarrassed if one of our players had done that, I’m sad that it wasn’t one of ours paying back some of the long list of shocking decisions we’ve had against us at OT.

If you haven’t even watched it, I’m not sure how you can be so convinced.

Fair do's.

 

[Spurslove]

If you haven't even seen it how on earth can you have such a strong opinion about it either way? If you want to act like a six-year-old and refuse to watch any clips of Arsenal, that's up to you, but you're in no position to be telling anyone to have a word with themselves. Quite the opposite in fact given that I assume from this that you're the type who doesn't eat Kit-Kats because they're red etc. and the like.

The way I see it (having actually watched the footage):

1. It was another Utd player who "injured" De Gea
2. He clearly wasn't that injured because he subsequently played the rest of the match. You're acting like he was on the ground with a broken leg or something. In fact, he was just milking it on the assumption that he'd automatically get a whistle and, therefore, snatch Arsenal's chance to get a goal from the follow-up.
3. I'm not even sure Smith-Rowe knew fully what was going on. The ball fell to him immediately afterwards and he instinctively took the shot. It's possible he didn't even have the opportunity to take stock of the moral rights and wrongs of scoring in that situation.

IMO if you start disallowing goals like that, it just gives keepers license to stop play whenever they like and prevent secondary attacks in the aftermath of a corner being cleared. It's be a matter of time before the more pragmatic managers started using it as a tactic to ensure that corners were a "one and done" affair

MOVE ON. It's done. Finished. Everyone's right and I'm wrong.

 

[rossdapep]

I'm not so sure they are on as big a upward trend as people are saying.

They've put some good results together and they do seem more settled.

However, they are actually very low on all attacking stats.

This image was taken from after the Liverpool defeat and shows that they aren't really creating many chances or quality chances and are actually in the bortom half for a lot of it.

This actually matches up with how Arteta had been performing prior to this season. Last season Arsenal were accused of being very blunt in attack and lacking creativity, heavily relying on crosses.

They still are.

This is after spending 150m.

I do think Gabriel and White is a decent defence, if not spectacular. Whilst Tomiyasu is looking decent. I just don't think outside of Smith Rowe and Saka they have a lot of quality to really push on enough. Not too mention Arteta persisting with this style that is heavily reliant on crosses.

We were lower than them for these metrics but I imagine we are much higher than that now thanks to the last 3 games.

 

[Spurslove]

I'm not so sure they are on as big a upward trend as people are saying.

They've put some good results together and they do seem more settled.

However, they are actually very low on all attacking stats.

This image was taken from after the Liverpool defeat and shows that they aren't really creating many chances or quality chances and are actually in the bortom half for a lot of it.

View attachment 101017

This actually matches up with how Arteta had been performing prior to this season. Last season Arsenal were accused of being very blunt in attack and lacking creativity, heavily relying on crosses.

They still are.

This is after spending 150m.

I do think Gabriel and White is a decent defence, if not spectacular. Whilst Tomiyasu is looking decent. I just don't think outside of Smith Rowe and Saka they have a lot of quality to really push on enough. Not too mention Arteta persisting with this style that is heavily reliant on crosses.

We were lower than them for these metrics but I imagine we are much higher than that now thanks to the last 3 games.

Cheers, very interesting but help me out here. I understand all the stats except 'Expected Goals' (xG). Can you explain in plain language exactly what that means and how that stat is arrived at?

Only 7 goals from open play. Wow.

.

 

[Graham Minshall]

Cheers, very interesting but help me out here. I understand all the stats except 'Expected Goals' (xG). Can you explain in plain language exactly what that means and how that stat is arrived at?

Only 7 goals from open play. Wow.

.

I’m with you in as much as I don’t get xG, I think it‘s all to do with the difficulty of the chance, for example, I think, Lucas’s goal would have a lower xG than the chance Pukki had. I think xG would expect the chance Pukki had, more goals would be scored than the chance Lucas had, if that makes sense? A bit like in high diving competition, you score higher depending on the level of difficult.

 

[Spurslove]

I’m with you in as much as I don’t get xG, I think it‘s all to do with the difficulty of the chance, for example, I think, Lucas’s goal would have a lower xG than the chance Pukki had. I think xG would expect the chance Pukki had, more goals would be scored than the chance Lucas had, if that makes sense? A bit like in high diving competition, you score higher depending on the level of difficult.

Hmm. So.....you're saying it's nothing to do with what is expected to happen, but what has happened, and all based on the level of difficulty...? But how would you award ratings depending on how difficult those chances might have been?

Sorry, this just isn't making much sense.

 

[EighteenEightyTwo]

Hmm. So.....you're saying it's nothing to do with what is expected to happen, but what has happened, and all based on the level of difficulty...? But how would you award ratings depending on how difficult those chances might have been?

Sorry, this just isn't making much sense.

Think of it as cumulative chance quality for that match, i.e. how many goals you ought to have scored with those chances.