Match Threads Arsenal vs Spurs - Match Thread - Day 28

[nico97531]

You're confusing formation with intent. It was a low block set up, we didn't press high and got ourselves into a malaise of not being able get out which negated our strengths- Bale, kane etc.

And even if you're right which I don't think you are, even if you're correct and the players just didn't perform then you still have to question him as they aren't playing for him.

But we know Mourinho’s often favoured tactic is a low block without the ball. He has never hid it.i suspect he just didn't have the courage to fully back it up and drop Bale and n'dombele or lucas to ensure we had the defensive energy to do it well.

Why put out the same formation when the intend is different, why would he start Bale if the intend was to defend when everyone knows Bale is questionable at best on tracking back.
What you’re saying is that Jose is simply hoping for the best when he sent out an attacking team to actually defend. That’s just a laughable view on a manager with his experience.

I would have agreed if you are having a go at him on not successfully motivating the team for a derby but it’s just absurd to suggest the tactics was to stand off arsenal and be as negative as we did with the players he had started.

 

[Dougal]

We see this differently, clearly. And that is the joy of being a supporter and sharing our perspectives.
Yes, the performance was familiar. I can see that.
But in recent weeks, we have played much better than that. And given the players he fielded, I’m kinda perplexed that he would expect and request they play in a low block. If so, then yeah, that’s plain stupid.
To me, it was an odd game, as I did not expect our boys to come out and play so passively. But it sounds like that is exactly what you expected, hence why you feel it was more of the same. I dig it. I was expecting something different.

If you were in the manager’s shoes, with this squad, how would you deploy them, based on our general strengths and weaknesses? I’m genuinely curious. Cos whenever I think it through, I can’t come up with a style of play that best suits the talent we have (or don’t have).

My biggest gripe with Jose, is that he can’t see to address our most glaring issue... which to me, is in midfield. So many games we see ourselves overrun in the middle of the park. Unable to transition forward. Did you see how many misplaced passes PEH played today? How Tanguy really struggled to get going and was more muppet than maestro today?

Then, where Jose really messed up today, was not identifying that sooner, as they kept overloading the right side and isolating Doherty in 1 v 1 situations, which we know he doesn’t do well with. That was where all the danger came from. No midfield help, and Bale did not track back at all. That is what worried me the most today, and why it seemed so strange that we didn’t respond sooner

Sounds like we’re more in agreement than you think. I’d have sent them out more on the front foot. I’ve said previously you can judge our games on the first three minutes and although yesterday I wasn’t particularly paying attention in the first 3 minutes we clearly started allowing them to control possession. That’s Mourinho’s tactic in big games and I honestly think he gave arsenal too much respect. There’s about 5 or 6 teams you can deploy that against and Arsenal are no longer one of them. If we went toe to toe we’d beat them. Look at their scrappy goals. That just comes from constant pressure that we allowed them to have. Take control of the game. Easier said than done? Even easier to sit back and do nothing. We are capable. But against Arsenal and West Ham we only attempt it when chasing the game.

 

[worcestersauce]

I understand the reasoning but I refuse to blame the right winger for the right back being roasted every time he was taken on and was actually showing their player down the line where he wanted to go. It would also help if the defensive midfielder had supported the right back adequately too.
Shame was as the last ten minutes showed, Arsenal are mentally weak as well, they fell back when we just attacked them fearful of losing their lead even against ten men.
We really have to work on a way of getting the ball to our forwards that isn't just a long pass.

 

[shelfboy68]

I think many fans have got caught up in the hype that after 4/5 wins against average opposition suddenly we are the real deal.
Our record against the top six especially away from home is shit there is no belief or bollocks from anyone.
We have been in the new stadium for two seasons and still can't beat west ham that's how bad it is, we are flat track bullies which is why the likes of the sky media just laugh at us because we win a couple of games and think we can win a league.
I have accepted that this club doesn't do winning titles I don't think any change of management will change that, the club continues to act like a big club but never delivers big results or trophies.

 

[Dougal]

Sounds like we’re more in agreement than you think. I’d have sent them out more on the front foot. I’ve said previously you can judge our games on the first three minutes and although yesterday I wasn’t particularly paying attention in the first 3 minutes we clearly started allowing them to control possession. That’s Mourinho’s tactic in big games and I honestly think he gave arsenal too much respect. There’s about 5 or 6 teams you can deploy that against and Arsenal are no longer one of them. If we went toe to toe we’d beat them. Look at their scrappy goals. That just comes from constant pressure that we allowed them to have. Take control of the game. Easier said than done? Even easier to sit back and do nothing. We are capable. But against Arsenal and West Ham we only attempt it when chasing the game.

Here you go, Jenas has more time on a Monday morning to spell it out.


Arsenal 2-1 Tottenham: 'A massive backward step - Jermaine Jenas on why Spurs' recent progress was 'all a lie'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56393306

 

[nico97531]

Sounds like we’re more in agreement than you think. I’d have sent them out more on the front foot. I’ve said previously you can judge our games on the first three minutes and although yesterday I wasn’t particularly paying attention in the first 3 minutes we clearly started allowing them to control possession. That’s Mourinho’s tactic in big games and I honestly think he gave arsenal too much respect. There’s about 5 or 6 teams you can deploy that against and Arsenal are no longer one of them. If we went toe to toe we’d beat them. Look at their scrappy goals. That just comes from constant pressure that we allowed them to have. Take control of the game. Easier said than done? Even easier to sit back and do nothing. We are capable. But against Arsenal and West Ham we only attempt it when chasing the game.

That’s the point where it doesn’t seem to fit the narrative on us setting up as a low block trying to defend, why would anyone set up a low block with no cover at the front, I mean what’s the point playing Bale in a low block, it’s never going to work, which is why the game plan surely is going to be similar to the previous games

 

[Gassin's finest]

Just watched MotD back... Jenas was well pissed off wasn't he, to the point where even Keown was all "uh, yeah JJ, no problem mate..."

 

[Teddy Klinsmann]

A very disappointing performance. We played better with ten men than with eleven.

With Doherty in the team, we only had 9 players for the final 30 mins.

 

[allatsea]

With Doherty in the team, we only had 9 players for the final 30 mins.

So true

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Ah well. When do we play next? Is it Thursday?

Define "play" ?

 

[14/04/91]

Then, where Jose really messed up today, was not identifying that sooner, as they kept overloading the right side and isolating Doherty in 1 v 1 situations, which we know he doesn’t do well with. That was where all the danger came from. No midfield help, and Bale did not track back at all. That is what worried me the most today, and why it seemed so strange that we didn’t respond sooner

Spot on. And this is not the first time he's been tactically inflexible.

Bringing Sissoko on wasn't a bad idea but sticking to 4231 was. It just meant Sissoko was dragged out of CM to cover against Tierney. Leaving PEH on his own if the ball came back central.
I don't know why he didn't go 433 with TN, PEH, MS from left to right. That 3 would then shuffle across depending which side Arsenal attacked (generally our right).

With 4231 this was putting too much emphasis on Bale (then Lamela post 60 mins) to cover back rather than his natural game of attacking.
So there may well have been 4 attacking players on the pitch but that's not much use when you know the oppo's left back is going to spend most of the game as a left winger. 433 would've given us a better chance of retaining possession and exploiting the gaps behind Tierney.

We conceded too much possession and didn't attack. Arsenal away is not a scary fixture anymore, why treat it like it is?

 

[EastLondonYid]

I can tell you now we are not finishing 4th

After seeing Jose manage us, I've come to realise that he's a coward. He never takes responsibility for a loss. Always blames the players or officials, even to the extent of crushing his players' confidence. And his preferred football is to keep 11 men behind the ball and hope to win on the counter. After winning five on the trot by finally playing attacking football he reverts to form against tougher opposition and instructs the team to defend until it's too late. We've seen it too many times this season already. It's joyless and cowardly.

Agree with you mate except the bit about finally playing attacking football..
I think you will find that 4 out of the 5 wins we had no choice but to attack as the opposition parked their bus first.The exception was Fulham and we shouldn't have won as we sat back and rode are luck.

 

[Serpico]

Many reasons why we lost-the goal-Doherty is a professional football player and is unable to watch the ball (he plays the man). On your toes -watch the ball and react accordingly-win the bloody ball or stop the man, its so bloody easy. The balls moved and the wingers gone before he reacts so then Doherty is chasing-its poor defending at any level. A good defender shouldn't need help its 1 v 1.
Ndombele-i just don't get it? we spend 60 million pound and we haven't got a finished player. Im all for embracing the talent and watching it grow but we need now talent not what maybe. The whole team should feel embarrassed and ashamed. Lockdown maybe throwing up weird performances and this may be one of them. lets hope for better.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I wonder if those comments were made when we were steamrolling teams these last few weeks.

Either way, if Mourinho fails then Kane will be gone, he's not sticking around for another project, that's for sure. So I am unquestionably 100% behind Jose.

To be fair, a fair few did continually did make statements along the lines of, "let's not get carried away, let's see how we do when we come up against better opposition".

Unfortunately they got got the answer they didn't want, but we're ultimately expecting. Shame!

 

[Serpico]

Can anyone Answer the question why the lack of motivation playing Arsenal, the players shouldn't need motivation in this fixture.What is Mourinho doing to make players so subdued in.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Still can't get my head around this. In our own penalty box & nobody within 6 yards of him.

Un

Fucking

Acceptable

 

[theShiznit]

Still can't get my head around this. In our own penalty box & nobody within 6 yards of him.

Un

Fucking

Acceptable



View attachment 84020

And what does every Spurs player in the shot have in common...

Ball watching.

One of our biggest problems and why Mourinho feels he needs to flood our defence with players in the hope that one of the fuckers will actually watch the man and ball...

 

[bigfrooj]

Day after thoughts are that the managers tactics, team selection and motivating are not good enough, that the majority of the team were just not good enough and playing without pride. Sad thing is we have the personnel when set up properly, and on all cylinders, to absolutely steamroller mediocre teams like that.
As for the penalty the player got his shitty shot away but Sanchez was out of control and went right through him. Anywhere else on the pitch it was a foul, the ref had no choice.

 

[shelfboy68]

Can anyone Answer the question why the lack of motivation playing Arsenal, the players shouldn't need motivation in this fixture.What is Mourinho doing to make players so subdued in.

We have this every year especially away from home the team and manager are beaten before the game starts it's an easy guaranteed three points for them no matter how good or bad they are playing.

 

[rossdapep]

Just watched MotD back... Jenas was well pissed off wasn't he, to the point where even Keown was all "uh, yeah JJ, no problem mate..."

Now imagine if JJ was still a Tottenham player.

I think Bale will be feeling exactly the same.

As JJ says, bringing Bale off has the potential to reverse all of the good work done. Was he playing well? Was he tracking back? No to both of those. But Bale doesn't want to be tracking back and offering zero in attack.

Some are adamant that he needs to show more effort off the ball but whilst I'm someone who wants to see players working their arses off, I don't think you can apply that to players like him. For a start, he can't run around like he used to anymore, so needs to choose his bursting runs. Secondly, you need him as the attacking focal point.

Ronaldo is a classic case. Zidane. Ancelotti and others have basically given Ronaldo a free pass in terms of defensive duties because they have wanted him to reserve his energy in the final third. Which proved to be the correct decision. Jose berated Ronaldo for not tracking back to which point they fell out.

The same thing could happen here if he's not careful. And players will start to take Bale's side cause they know how much difference he can make.

You've now got Arsenal fans saying Tierney had Bale in his pocket, which is ridiculous. Whenever the ball.came close to him he had 3 or 4 arsenal players around him with not much in support.

As soon as we got that goal. Jose should have been demanding the team to press Arsenal. They weren't expecting the goal and it would have had an effect on their mentality. Instead we let them regain composure and come back at us.