jbstarr14
Well-Known Member
- Aug 19, 2010
- 1,506
- 5,165
Sadly, I fear that ‘Welcome to the Jungle’ more accurately fits our current predicament...
Where do we go now?
- Thread starter sidford
- Start date
NEVILLEB
Well-Known Member
- Nov 6, 2006
- 6,797
- 6,447
Sorry but I couldn’t get past ‘Kane was overplayed’.
Can you think why that might have happened?
One of the most depressing things about this situation is the inevitability of what will happen next. We genuinely have an opportunity to do things different now - to adopt a successful European model of the likes of Ajax, Dortmund, etc. We have the money to be able to do it...we have incredible facilities and somehow we still have incredible clout. But we won't. We'll throw that money at a stop gap manager, who'll maybe do well for a short period until it goes tits up again. This for me is where the approach of Levy et al. is indefensible. It suggests they are stupid, or they have no real interest in building something sustainable to succeed.
Given the ESL shitshow and the circus around Mourinho, if now isn't the time for ambitious change, then it never will be.
Given the ESL shitshow and the circus around Mourinho, if now isn't the time for ambitious change, then it never will be.
joelstinton14
Well-Known Member
- Aug 23, 2011
- 1,295
- 3,429
We just carry on and rebuild as we always have done. May have a few bumpy years but we got a chance to start a new page, new manager, new players and just go for it.
We were always in a position where we lost our best players. We almost qualified for the CL under Jol, lost carrick and berbatov. Had a couple of rough years. Reinvested and had a wonderful team under Harry whilst qualifying for the champions league for the first time. Lost Modric. Lost Harry when he had his head turned by the England job. AvB came in and had a mixed time of it, but Bale in that season was unstoppable. We lost him. A couple of rough years but reinvested and then Poch happened. Regular champions league football, reaching a final, title contenders in the league. Lost Poch. A rough couple of years. May lose Kane and Son.
But we always seem to bounce back. No one is ever irreplaceable. Our trajectory seems to be one step back two forward. It may look grim right now but give it a couple of seasons and who knows. The off field infrastructure is there now. One less thing to focus on.
And it happens to other clubs. We always expect to be competing but having dips are natural. How many managers have Man Utd gone through since Sir Alex? Even now some aren’t convinced by Ole. How many managers did Liverpool appoint post Benitez? And pre Klopp? How many seasons in a row did we finish above them (6/7?). How many managers have Chelsea gone through in the years between Jose stints? How many have Arsenal gone through post wenger? City have the odd year where they fluff it and finish fourth. It just our turn at the moment.
We were always in a position where we lost our best players. We almost qualified for the CL under Jol, lost carrick and berbatov. Had a couple of rough years. Reinvested and had a wonderful team under Harry whilst qualifying for the champions league for the first time. Lost Modric. Lost Harry when he had his head turned by the England job. AvB came in and had a mixed time of it, but Bale in that season was unstoppable. We lost him. A couple of rough years but reinvested and then Poch happened. Regular champions league football, reaching a final, title contenders in the league. Lost Poch. A rough couple of years. May lose Kane and Son.
But we always seem to bounce back. No one is ever irreplaceable. Our trajectory seems to be one step back two forward. It may look grim right now but give it a couple of seasons and who knows. The off field infrastructure is there now. One less thing to focus on.
And it happens to other clubs. We always expect to be competing but having dips are natural. How many managers have Man Utd gone through since Sir Alex? Even now some aren’t convinced by Ole. How many managers did Liverpool appoint post Benitez? And pre Klopp? How many seasons in a row did we finish above them (6/7?). How many managers have Chelsea gone through in the years between Jose stints? How many have Arsenal gone through post wenger? City have the odd year where they fluff it and finish fourth. It just our turn at the moment.
Maxtremist
Well-Known Member
- Jun 11, 2014
- 1,531
- 3,300
What is that ambitious change for you? Is it the manager? The players we're buying? All of it?
Why is a pandemic when fans haven't been in the stadium for over a year the now or never moment?
Comparisons to Dortmund and Ajax are... difficult too cause they're models also rely on the leagues they're in and the competition they've got in their leagues.
Also what do you mean by their successful European models? I mean Dortmund are having a bad season this year. Even with Haaland and Sancho and their stars they are in a very real possibility of not making the CL. They're also likely going to sell Haaland and Sancho and any other stars they get. So too will Ajax and all their stars. So are you suggesting we just stick to being a selling club? Or Successful in just qualifying for Europe each year? (which we have been doing).
Do Ajax and Dortmund have a Manchester City and Manchester United and Chelsea and Liverpool and Arsenal and Leicester to compete with on a yearly basis?
When we went from AVB to Sherwood to Poch, did we think it was inevitable we'd be stuck in a downward cycle and then were surprised by Poch?
Gspurs11
Well-Known Member
- Aug 19, 2012
- 1,949
- 8,674
The annoying thing is if Levy gets the next appointment wrong, there's no accountability as he is part-owner of the club. We had ITK a while ago, and i may be misremembering, but it said Uncle Joe wasn't too keen on Mourinho and it was on Levy's head - i think it was from someone reliable but can't remember who.
HodisGawd
Well-Known Member
- Oct 3, 2005
- 1,746
- 5,959
Mourinho was always a big risk and Levy showed balls by hiring him. It did not work out. I don't think we can blame Levy for that, he rolled the dice but his numbers didn't come up. I just think Mourinho was a bit rubbish, he thought he could turn up and win things. With us, you need more than that.
And yes, there is no accountability. That's not something specific to Levy, Enic or Joe Lewis. It's because football clubs are not democracies, they are owned. Until the ownership model changes, which it won't, then we have to lump it. If we were taken over it would be the same, perhaps worse. Look at the Glazers - there's even less accountability there. They have absolutely no relationship with the fans, good, bad or otherwise.
Gspurs11
Well-Known Member
- Aug 19, 2012
- 1,949
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I agree with all of that, I'm just a bit fed up and disillusioned with it all.
freeeki
Arsehole.
- Aug 5, 2008
- 11,856
- 69,554
I don't want to state the obvious, but we sacked him 6 days before a final, and replaced him with a caretaker manager with a grand total of 0 games under his belt.
joelstinton14
Well-Known Member
- Aug 23, 2011
- 1,295
- 3,429
I think having a functioning academy takes time. It takes a while for that investment to make a return. It’s only a few years old but hopefully we will start to see more players come through. Japhet as come through, good chance we’ll see Skipp involved next year and then we have the likes of Parrot and Scarlett too. Jack Clarke was doing well this season before he got injured too. I tend to think we are at our best when we sign young players. When you look at some of our best players over the last 20 years Walker, Rose, Bale, Lennon they were young and brought through. Modrić too was relatively young at the time.
I think our problem is actually sticking to that model and having faith with it. I think when we need to make that step, bringing in older players who Danny Rose doesn’t have to google, we forget to refresh in other areas with younger hungry players.
It’s not just the club that needs to have faith with it but fans too. We’re happy to go along with the academy/young talentset up for a couple of years but the way football is we just end up forgetting about it and demanding £75 million superstars.
Its a two way thing though. Club as to have faith with it, but fans need to understand that’s how things are. We have to buy into that identity.
double0
Well-Known Member
- Aug 29, 2006
- 14,423
- 12,258
That's so short sighted. If you have rotten fruit or dead wood you separate the bad from the good otherwise what will happen is it'll all get bad.
If we have to subsidise his wage like what Real Madrid and all other clubs have done with their players in the past unfortunately we have to do it.
I like Sissoko as a professional footballer you can't ask for more model pro...but that's Levy he went and personally done the deal because the re payment was the length of his contract.
The clubs in a mess at the moment we've lost our identity- in how we want to play football we're caught between not winning silverware and being a laughing stock the club like others isn't consulting fans in regards to the superleague. We have fantastic facilities but very mentally poor players... Plus no manager.
The club needs a massive shake up from top to bottom.
That's a lot of questions!
Appreciate the simplistic comparisons with other teams in other leagues, but therein lies the ambition - take the good things from other club models (outside the UK i guess) and apply those to Spurs. If the club has a vision that is built around a more sustainable approach to staff/talent development and management then i don't think anyone would begrudge a few seasons where, like Ajax, Dortmund, etc, we don't hit the highest of heights. What we're struggling with is doing badly and playing in a manner which appears hopeless, whilst in the middle of a seemingly rudderless approach to club management.
I agree with a lot of this - the faith of all stakeholders is absolutely critical. There's no use having a 5-year plan with ambitious vision and then shitting the bed after three years; and that's directed at fans too.
I do think, however, that even if we're not winning loads of games, there will likely be evidence that something positive is happening, whether that's a game when a new approach 'clicks' or the appointment of a progressive manager and crop of players, etc. We have none of that just now.
Maxtremist
Well-Known Member
- Jun 11, 2014
- 1,531
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That's a lot of questions!
Appreciate the simplistic comparisons with other teams in other leagues, but therein lies the ambition - take the good things from other club models (outside the UK i guess) and apply those to Spurs. If the club has a vision that is built around a more sustainable approach to staff/talent development and management then i don't think anyone would begrudge a few seasons where, like Ajax, Dortmund, etc, we don't hit the highest of heights. What we're struggling with is doing badly and playing in a manner which appears hopeless, whilst in the middle of a seemingly rudderless approach to club management.
You say that, but then the narrative will still be trophyless Tottenham and all that. Cause the Ajax/Dortmund models have a degree of safety in that there's not much competition so they can afford to focus on other things like the staff/talent development. If we did that, given the level of competition we'd likely struggle in other areas.
I think, whilst I get your idea, we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. In that we'd almost need a trophy/trophies to keep our best players. But we need to almost take a step back and set up a good bedrock of staff, talent and development to set us up for continued success and we can't easily do both at the same time and the fanbase are split a little on which of those we want most.
Ultimately I think in the immediate, if we can get a manager that can play good football with us then we'll take that. It might not get us CL or trophies but it feels like just giving us something good to watch and trying to compete will do it for now
Cavehillspur
Well-Known Member
- Jan 28, 2011
- 14,107
- 18,467
Here’s hoping Uefa dont hit us with a transfer ban for the esl involvement otherwise we're totally fucked.
MassadaTom
Well-Known Member
- Aug 8, 2019
- 1,392
- 1,636
or dead horse
MassadaTom
Well-Known Member
- Aug 8, 2019
- 1,392
- 1,636
We need CL money thou.Ajax and Dortmund have easy access compared to us.That's a lot of questions!
Appreciate the simplistic comparisons with other teams in other leagues, but therein lies the ambition - take the good things from other club models (outside the UK i guess) and apply those to Spurs. If the club has a vision that is built around a more sustainable approach to staff/talent development and management then i don't think anyone would begrudge a few seasons where, like Ajax, Dortmund, etc, we don't hit the highest of heights. What we're struggling with is doing badly and playing in a manner which appears hopeless, whilst in the middle of a seemingly rudderless approach to club management.
Every one involved would be fine mounting a challenge to the top evry 3 ,4 years but CL money is required to sustain us on top level. Maybe with stadium we could survive year off but it is costly.
