What do we do now?

Everlasting Seconds · Jun 3, 2019

Grey Fox said:
I think there are a number of basic things that need to be addressed as well as some decent recruitment.
I am always astounded that our deadball situations are so predictable and poor , what the hell do we do in training?
Same goes for Lloris and his distribution, its dreadful, nearly always ends up with the opposition and cost us a number of goals this season ,always puts us under pressure. While we are at it, he needs to be stripped of his captaincy, he can't lead the team from between the sticks, doesn't even command his area, proof was when he should have shouted to Rose to leave the cross, which led to the corner and ultimately the second goal.
Our movement up front is non existent compared with previous seasons, we are so static hence all of the back passes and shithousing at the back.
All of this should be sorted out at training sessions, perhaps with a full pre season some of it can be sorted, but we are always going to be nearly men until it is.
My other gripe and I love the man, but Poch needs to be tougher and stop with the loyalty with some of the players, Lloris, Kane, Eriksen have had times this season when they should have been left out of the side.
As far as transfers go, its probably going to be the biggest window ever across Europe. A number of teams need to rebuild and the current prices are going to mean the records for total expenditure will be broken, even if Chelsea are banned
Fans need to realise that agents run the game now and players have more choice in where they go, yes we will spend this window, but it's not always Levy or Poch to blame if we fail to get some across the line.

Unusual long "rant" from you and you are touching upon many important but different aspects at once. One thing I disagree with though is the captaincy. I don't believe in stripping captaincies just for the sake of it, unless the player in question really has gravely misbehaved. But I do think Pochettino needs to freshen up a bit (mentally recharge, not appearance wise) and I wonder if he can manage to reach that next level in his ability within his current job. For one he loves his favourite players, and it is a hindrance at times.

wrd · Jun 3, 2019

I think now the dust has settled, I think there's a few things we need to improve on.

Poch is an outstanding manager however if we're going to take that final step then he needs to be willing to change two things which are basically one thing.

- Needs to drop players from starting 11 if they're going through a bad run, Eriksen and Dele spent far too long in starting 11 this season despite struggling for form even when there were other options
- This is the big one for me, but he needs to not be scared to sub off his favourites, not only was it criminal that Liverpool made 2 subs before we made one but to take Winks off instead of Dele, Eriksen or Kane was a terrible decision. It's not the first time either, he regularly sacrifices balance and takes off the perceived lesser players to favour leaving on his favourites who are not peforming.

I think we need to remove the single player dependency on our passing game, you can't have a situation where your fluidity all hinges on whether Eriksen has a good game or not.

I also think we need to not base our game around Kane as our main attacking outlet, he's an incredible footballer but you look at Liverpool, City, Barca and when Ronaldo was at Madrid, the key players are in those wing positions where they have space, Kane has incredible ability to hold the ball up and pass, I know he's a freak at scoring but I think if we adapt our style to favour our wing players, Kane will still be a scoring phenomenon but will have so much more influence on the game with his all round play. He can be a large part of the solution for fixing our Eriksen shaped hole along with improving the passing ability by signing great midfielders.

DEFchenkOE · Jun 3, 2019

I think moving forward we need:

In
RB, CM, AM, WF, ST

Get rid of the deadwood, easier said than done and it rarely happens but you never know.

Then I think we need to adjust our style a bit, the passing game is nice and i'm sure we'd love to score the perfect goal building from the back. We just don't seem to do it that well and although we control the possession we don't always look a threat. And that goes beyond Saturdays game.

Onto next season and we need to start aiming for trophies, and i'm including the league/fa cup in that. I know Poch wants the big prizes but he needs to taste winning something with us. Would be a crying shame if at the end of all his good work he didn't even have one winners medal to show for it.

Spurs 1961 · Jun 3, 2019

Grey Fox said:
I think there are a number of basic things that need to be addressed as well as some decent recruitment.
I am always astounded that our deadball situations are so predictable and poor , what the hell do we do in training?
Same goes for Lloris and his distribution, its dreadful, nearly always ends up with the opposition and cost us a number of goals this season ,always puts us under pressure. While we are at it, he needs to be stripped of his captaincy, he can't lead the team from between the sticks, doesn't even command his area, proof was when he should have shouted to Rose to leave the cross, which led to the corner and ultimately the second goal.
Our movement up front is non existent compared with previous seasons, we are so static hence all of the back passes and shithousing at the back.
All of this should be sorted out at training sessions, perhaps with a full pre season some of it can be sorted, but we are always going to be nearly men until it is.
My other gripe and I love the man, but Poch needs to be tougher and stop with the loyalty with some of the players, Lloris, Kane, Eriksen have had times this season when they should have been left out of the side.
As far as transfers go, its probably going to be the biggest window ever across Europe. A number of teams need to rebuild and the current prices are going to mean the records for total expenditure will be broken, even if Chelsea are banned
Fans need to realise that agents run the game now and players have more choice in where they go, yes we will spend this window, but it's not always Levy or Poch to blame if we fail to get some across the line.

I think the views about Lloris are somewhat misguided. He led his team to the World Cup and led us to a CL final. Not bad really! Could he be better, of course but don't led the odd mistake cloud the reality of how many games he has saved us in.

Secondly the dead ball aspect is a continual gripe but see my previous post and realise that this is an aspect of the game that is seriously overrated by most people when you look at the stats not just over recent years but for the last seventy. I just read 'Spurs Supreme' written in 1961 and Ralph Finn pours scorn on the reliance of corners, crosses etc., by teams as basically kick and hope football. Poch, Pep etc., understand this and so build teams that move the ball, that retain possession. Now of course we have been below our best this season but this football has us in a place where we can moan at 4th place and a CL final! We just need to be better at what we do which of course could mean some better players in the squad as well as improvement from all who stay

SpartanSpur · Jun 3, 2019

It's pretty simple really, are we willing (and/or able) to spend the money to push on? Everything is in place to make ourselves one of the elite clubs across Europe. World class manager, stadium, training ground, massive fanbase, CL football again and just had the exposure of a brilliant CL run to the final.

Poch's words in the build up and those of Kane, Son, Dele, Lloris since suggest that they'll all be there for the next step, so that's a great foundation to be working with.

Per the Mirror last night (and largely in line with ITK) our targets look spot on for pushing the club forward, all seem to suit our style and all seem to be interested. Lo Celso, Ndombele, Sessegnon and Maxi Gomez (although I'd prefer Bergwijn or Bale) plus a new RB would be the kind of game-changing window we'd require, but will we have the money to do so?

Get this window right and we'll have plenty more chances to pick up silverware over the coming years, we'll be too strong not to.

DEFchenkOE · Jun 3, 2019

Everlasting Seconds said:
Unusual long "rant" from you and you are touching upon many important but different aspects at once. One thing I disagree with though is the captaincy. I don't believe in stripping captaincies just for the sake of it, unless the player in question really has gravely misbehaved. But I do think Pochettino needs to freshen up a bit (mentally recharge, not appearance wise) and I wonder if he can manage to reach that next level in his ability within his current job. For one he loves his favourite players, and it is a hindrance at times.

Yep, no way can you strip Lloris of the captaincy, especially considering he's a world cup winning captain. Verts/Toby/Kane/Rsoe are the on pitch leaders, they don't need the armband to make themselves heard in the dressing room or in games. If at any time Poch did want to take the captaincy off him it would have been after the drink drive incident. And Poch backed him 100% so he's not going to change that now, I don't think it's a massive or even a minor issue. VVD doesn't have the armband at Liverpool for example and he is an absolute leader on the pitch.

nailsy · Jun 3, 2019

ShaunL84 said:
Liverpool's owners were there tonight. Roman attends games, he was in Baku on Thursday.

Arsenal's owner (Kroenke) didn't attend the game, and neither did Joe Lewis.

Spot the pattern.

He was there:

https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/sport/foo...e-final-tottenham-hotspur-liverpool-1-6083802

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detai...vy-and-joe-lewis-in-the-news-photo/1147293259

olliec · Jun 3, 2019

Stay off social media all summer. Everytime I open Facebook every single football page has a pic of Liverpool lifting the trophy, it's too much!

Westmorlandspur · Jun 3, 2019

All our players will be better next season after a proper break. To finish top 4 and champ lge final when hardly any of our players had an outstanding season is a good achievement. You could say Sonny and Sissoko had the best seasons and that’s about ut

DJS · Jun 3, 2019

Looking forward to players having a proper summer off to refresh themselves and (hopefully) a couple of new signings to freshen things up a bit and give us some more options.

Also would be great to see Skipp getting more chances next season.

ILS · Jun 3, 2019

I believe Poch will see this opportunity to go back to what made us successful in his first couple of years now we're back home. He knew going to Wembley, we had to change the way we played due to the size of he pitch and therefore this season was always going to be hard to try and change our approach mid season when we returned.

I think that is why the majority of our targets are going to be a good age and with pace to be able Poch to return the team to high press and make us more aggressive across the pitch ala Liverpool.

Trix · Jun 3, 2019

Everlasting Seconds said:
You keep re-fueling this idea that it is such an either-or black-and-white binary option between only one of Levy or Pochettino carrying the blame. After 1,5 years of no discovering and recruiting even one player to the senior squad, it is derived from classic logic that both of them must be at fault and share the blame for various reasons. It is impossible that the blame for lack of sourcing players resides with only one of the two men.

That's not my intent at all. My posts on this subject are generally aimed at posts saying Poch needs to be backed or that Levy won't spend the money to bring on the players Poch wants. Both of these points are in the most part incorrect. In the past Levy has brought in players the manager hasn't necessarily wanted in order to extract value from the market. The last few windows Pochs been backed all the way as far as our resources would take us that is, because the players MP has targeted for one reason or another have not been obtainable. The club's won't sell or the player wants to go elsewhere etc. It's not in reality had a lot to do with the financial aspect. It's more so that the players he wants are in demand by the elite clubs, or the selling clubs are of sufficient status(compared to us) that they could hold their players.

Maske2g · Jun 3, 2019

I think next season is going to leave a lot of people angry.

Whether we have money or not, signing 5-6 top players, who all go and bed straight in, is just not possible in today's illiquid and expensive transfer market. Lots of clubs have money to rebuild. But they will all be going for the same players pushing prices sky high.

By not signing anyone last season not only were we poor this season (we lost 20 games regardless of a lucky cup run) but the job is even harder now that we all want more players.

No one will be sad to see Trippier going. Our worst regular first teamer for mant years. But we need a right back.

Eriksen is going, need a replacement.

We are so short in central midfield after having one of the best in Europe 3 seasons ago.

If Toby goes, Sanchez is not good enough.

The attack needs a refreshment in options it's predictable and stale.

How do you buy all that when Arsenal, Man U, Real Madrid, Chelsea, can all blow us out the water with money? You can't

Would love Palace right back, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Zaha etc etc. But that is 250 m on 4 players.

Sessegnon is an utter waste of money now. 30-40m on a potentially great left back is the polar opposite of what we need. Couldn't even get in Fulham's side, he isnt ready.

Maske2g · Jun 3, 2019

ShaunL84 said:
Liverpool's owners were there tonight. Roman attends games, he was in Baku on Thursday.

Arsenal's owner (Kroenke) didn't attend the game, and neither did Joe Lewis.

Spot the pattern.

Fun fact. Joe Lewis doesn't own Tottenham.

Trix · Jun 3, 2019

Maske2g said:
I think next season is going to leave a lot of people angry.

Whether we have money or not, signing 5-6 top players, who all go and bed straight in, is just not possible in today's illiquid and expensive transfer market. Lots of clubs have money to rebuild. But they will all be going for the same players pushing prices sky high.

By not signing anyone last season not only were we poor this season (we lost 20 games regardless of a lucky cup run) but the job is even harder now that we all want more players.

No one will be sad to see Trippier going. Our worst regular first teamer for mant years. But we need a right back.

Eriksen is going, need a replacement.

We are so short in central midfield after having one of the best in Europe 3 seasons ago.

If Toby goes, Sanchez is not good enough.

The attack needs a refreshment in options it's predictable and stale.

How do you buy all that when Arsenal, Man U, Real Madrid, Chelsea, can all blow us out the water with money? You can't

Would love Palace right back, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Zaha etc etc. But that is 250 m on 4 players.

Sessegnon is an utter waste of money now. 30-40m on a potentially great left back is the polar opposite of what we need. Couldn't even get in Fulham's side, he isnt ready.

It's imperative we get at least 2-3 in early doors in order for them to hit the ground running for sure.

rossdapep · Jun 3, 2019

wrd said:
I think now the dust has settled, I think there's a few things we need to improve on.

Poch is an outstanding manager however if we're going to take that final step then he needs to be willing to change two things which are basically one thing.

- Needs to drop players from starting 11 if they're going through a bad run, Eriksen and Dele spent far too long in starting 11 this season despite struggling for form even when there were other options
- This is the big one for me, but he needs to not be scared to sub off his favourites, not only was it criminal that Liverpool made 2 subs before we made one but to take Winks off instead of Dele, Eriksen or Kane was a terrible decision. It's not the first time either, he regularly sacrifices balance and takes off the perceived lesser players to favour leaving on his favourites who are not peforming.

I think we need to remove the single player dependency on our passing game, you can't have a situation where your fluidity all hinges on whether Eriksen has a good game or not.

I also think we need to not base our game around Kane as our main attacking outlet, he's an incredible footballer but you look at Liverpool, City, Barca and when Ronaldo was at Madrid, the key players are in those wing positions where they have space, Kane has incredible ability to hold the ball up and pass, I know he's a freak at scoring but I think if we adapt our style to favour our wing players, Kane will still be a scoring phenomenon but will have so much more influence on the game with his all round play. He can be a large part of the solution for fixing our Eriksen shaped hole along with improving the passing ability by signing great midfielders.

From January onwards I really don't think this was true. We were all sweating abut who was going to play and we had Kane, Dele and Lamela all injured at the same time and Son unavailable.

Poch has largely been hampered by players unavailability all season. Even when we've had back-to-back games he hasn't had the luxury of switching one or two.

Can't take Eriksen out cause there's no Lamela, can't take Dele out cause then we have virtually no-one. I'm sure had we had a fitter squad then Poch would have rotated them more. In turn, the performances of Dele and Eriksen would have been better too.

rossdapep · Jun 3, 2019

Maske2g said:
I think next season is going to leave a lot of people angry.

Whether we have money or not, signing 5-6 top players, who all go and bed straight in, is just not possible in today's illiquid and expensive transfer market. Lots of clubs have money to rebuild. But they will all be going for the same players pushing prices sky high.

By not signing anyone last season not only were we poor this season (we lost 20 games regardless of a lucky cup run) but the job is even harder now that we all want more players.

No one will be sad to see Trippier going. Our worst regular first teamer for mant years. But we need a right back.

Eriksen is going, need a replacement.

We are so short in central midfield after having one of the best in Europe 3 seasons ago.

If Toby goes, Sanchez is not good enough.

The attack needs a refreshment in options it's predictable and stale.

How do you buy all that when Arsenal, Man U, Real Madrid, Chelsea, can all blow us out the water with money? You can't

Would love Palace right back, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Zaha etc etc. But that is 250 m on 4 players.

Sessegnon is an utter waste of money now. 30-40m on a potentially great left back is the polar opposite of what we need. Couldn't even get in Fulham's side, he isnt ready.

One thing I will say is that we should be safe in the knowledge that our 'core' will largely stay in tact. This makes it easier for others to bed in.

A rested and reenergised first 11 of;

Lloris
Aurier/KWP Sanchez Jan Rose
Sissoko Winks Dier
Son Kane Alli

Can hold the fort to start the season, then new signings can be gradually eased in. Although as @Trix states if we get 2 early incomings then we should be able to bed them in and get them accustomed to Poch's way and understanding with other players.

The other new additions can be gradually integrated.

Look at Liverpool, Van Dijk and Allison bedded in immediately. Fabinho took a couple of months and Keita started strong but faded. They were all signed early too, so in that respect two early additions will see us through I'm sure.

mil1lion · Jun 3, 2019

ILS said:
I believe Poch will see this opportunity to go back to what made us successful in his first couple of years now we're back home. He knew going to Wembley, we had to change the way we played due to the size of he pitch and therefore this season was always going to be hard to try and change our approach mid season when we returned.

I think that is why the majority of our targets are going to be a good age and with pace to be able Poch to return the team to high press and make us more aggressive across the pitch ala Liverpool.

The trouble is the pitch size is the same at NWHL and most grounds now. I think it will help that there is no summer tournament for most players now. The energy levels will hopefully be better next season. We definitely need to be able to rest key players more without losing too much quality though.

mil1lion · Jun 3, 2019

rossdapep said:
One thing I will say is that we should be safe in the knowledge that our 'core' will largely stay in tact. This makes it easier for others to bed in.

A rested and reenergised first 11 of;

Lloris
Aurier/KWP Sanchez Jan Rose
Sissoko Winks Dier
Son Kane Alli

Can hold the fort to start the season, then new signings can be gradually eased in. Although as @Trix states if we get 2 early incomings then we should be able to bed them in and get them accustomed to Poch's way and understanding with other players.

The other new additions can be gradually integrated.

Look at Liverpool, Van Dijk and Allison bedded in immediately. Fabinho took a couple of months and Keita started strong but faded. They were all signed early too, so in that respect two early additions will see us through I'm sure.

it will also help to sign players who already play that high energy pressing game

DEFchenkOE · Jun 3, 2019

Maske2g said:
I think next season is going to leave a lot of people angry.

Whether we have money or not, signing 5-6 top players, who all go and bed straight in, is just not possible in today's illiquid and expensive transfer market. Lots of clubs have money to rebuild. But they will all be going for the same players pushing prices sky high.

By not signing anyone last season not only were we poor this season (we lost 20 games regardless of a lucky cup run) but the job is even harder now that we all want more players.

No one will be sad to see Trippier going. Our worst regular first teamer for mant years. But we need a right back.

Eriksen is going, need a replacement.

We are so short in central midfield after having one of the best in Europe 3 seasons ago.

If Toby goes, Sanchez is not good enough.

The attack needs a refreshment in options it's predictable and stale.

How do you buy all that when Arsenal, Man U, Real Madrid, Chelsea, can all blow us out the water with money? You can't

Would love Palace right back, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Zaha etc etc. But that is 250 m on 4 players.

Sessegnon is an utter waste of money now. 30-40m on a potentially great left back is the polar opposite of what we need. Couldn't even get in Fulham's side, he isnt ready.

Yea I was thinking we need at least 5 players to complete our squad and I just don't see it happening myself.

The thing with Sessegnon, how many games did he actually play at left back for Fulham last season? From what I saw he was playing left wing. I think Rose and Davies are excellent left back options and Poch doesn't play with wingers often. So I don't see why we're after him.

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