Player Watch: Juan Foyth

BringBack_leGin · May 5, 2019

LeParisien said:
Normally you are balanced and measured. Not in this thread.

The boy has unreal talent on the ball. That is not something you find on every street corner - particularly in a CB.

Has he made mistakes ? Yeh sure he has.

Has he played superbly in the PL? Yeh sure he has.

Is it easier to teach a player to be as talented on the ball as Foyth is or is it easier to eliminate the rash elements ?

He needs time and composure but he has a very rare set of gifts that we should harnass. He is not Aurier. Let’s give the kid a chance.

The problem is, the only way to eliminate his flaws are with game time, and he’s nowhere near being trustworthy to handle the pressures inherent with premier league football. I genuinely have more faith in Carter Vickers right now, and I don’t much fancy him either. So where do you give him the game time?

I’d suggest that if ever a player could benefit from a loan, it’s Foyth, and I’d loan him to a club who play similar style to us but in a lower league (as putting him in a side who are primarily on the back foot won’t reach him how to play for Spurs).

Whoever doesn’t come up out of Leeds, Villa or Derby would be my choice.

Deleted member 27995 · May 5, 2019

Funny shit, we could be here all day.

I look forward to those who want progress with transfers complaining about the extra hole to fill - with no cash as we'll be playing in the Europa League next year, which no one likes.

Ever decreasing circles.

EastLondonYid · May 5, 2019

BringBack_leGin said:
The problem is, the only way to eliminate his flaws are with game time, and he’s nowhere near being trustworthy to handle the pressures inherent with premier league football. I genuinely have more faith in Carter Vickers right now, and I don’t much fancy him either. So where do you give him the game time?

I’d suggest that if ever a player could benefit from a loan, it’s Foyth, and I’d loan him to a club who play similar style to us but in a lower league (as putting him in a side who are primarily on the back foot won’t reach him how to play for Spurs).

Whoever doesn’t come up out of Leeds, Villa or Derby would be my choice.

Why would you not loan him to Premier league club?
I would want to see how he fairs against the top forwards.

doctor stefan Freud · May 5, 2019

LeParisien said:
On the face of it you’re right, of course. But that strips away all context.

Son has had a week off and has more legs than anyone. The team is relying on him as a main source of goals and attacking threat in order to wrap up top 4 before our biggest game in a long time.

Foyth is a kid who no one is turning to for leadership. The atmosphere at halftime must have been thick in the away dressing room. The team emerges without three of its biggest leaders on the pitch who started the game. He comes out stressed and fucks up.

It’s not THAT obvious who has messed up more. Both thoroughly preventable and Son has failed to show the kind of leadership you would expect from a senior member of the squad in an important and winnable game ..

Contextual arguments are valuable but also profoundly subjective and complex. Strip the events down to the most basic elements and you have an unprovoked, unnecessary reaction to losing the ball in non threatening territory.

If he’d made a red card challenge in a last ditch tackle in the dying moments of the game, preventing a likely goal I suspect I’d be less concerned about his temperament.

But his actions were so significantly stupid, bordering on negligent that you have to question his mentality. Maybe in time this can be coached out of him, but he’s no where near ready to step up as our regular CB. If he played for any of our top four rivals, I’d be pleased to see him facing us because he can be rash, especially when he feels pressurised

Rocksuperstar · May 5, 2019

Each time he's been sent off it's been because his studs were showing - that is something you can coach out. If he was going in snarling and aiming for the side of the knee then that's more concerning but, imo, watching the tackles you can see he's not a malicious twat, just incredibly careless.

Heavier boots? While I hate to think of us having to go shopping for more centre backs, maybe a year in the Champs where he can get some of that fire out of his system in an environment where players are ready for the odd ploughman and will stomp it out of his game if necessary, will do him good. Lend him to mid table team like Forest and maybe if he gets regular games he'll start to pace himself and be a bit less of a motorhead.

He's clearly passionate and talented so I'd hate to see him get a reputation for being an assassin after so few appearances. In the past, some clogger would've already taken a chunk out of him to teach him to calm down but that's not going to happen now so i guess we just have to let the fuse burn down a bit and hope he matures into someone who can focus more on his obvious talents.

LeParisien · May 5, 2019

BringBack_leGin said:
The problem is, the only way to eliminate his flaws are with game time, and he’s nowhere near being trustworthy to handle the pressures inherent with premier league football. I genuinely have more faith in Carter Vickers right now, and I don’t much fancy him either. So where do you give him the game time?

I’d suggest that if ever a player could benefit from a loan, it’s Foyth, and I’d loan him to a club who play similar style to us but in a lower league (as putting him in a side who are primarily on the back foot won’t reach him how to play for Spurs).

Whoever doesn’t come up out of Leeds, Villa or Derby would be my choice.

I feel like an alien here ...

https://www.transfermarkt.fr/juan-f.../480763/saison/2018/wettbewerb/GB1/verein/148

Look at the games he’s played in there. Which ones entailed mistakes beyond Wolves and Bournemouth yday?

At the end of last year he played brilliantly against Chelsea and Arsenal. He’s done well in lots of other games. Solid against city away recently.

Have I suffered from amnesia ? What is all this based on? Specific games please.

DanielJohnCosta · May 5, 2019

about 1 year and half younger than Davinson. Honest opinion fellow SC members, how much better is Davi than Foyth?

for me it's leaps and bounds

LeParisien · May 5, 2019

doctor stefan Freud said:
Contextual arguments are valuable but also profoundly subjective and complex. Strip the events down to the most basic elements and you have an unprovoked, unnecessary reaction to losing the ball in non threatening territory.

If he’d made a red card challenge in a last ditch tackle in the dying moments of the game, preventing a likely goal I suspect I’d be less concerned about his temperament.

But his actions were so significantly stupid, bordering on negligent that you have to question his mentality. Maybe in time this can be coached out of him, but he’s no where near ready to step up as our regular CB. If he played for any of our top four rivals, I’d be pleased to see him facing us because he can be rash, especially when he feels pressurised

I agree that it’s complex but that is the reality of the world we live in. Motivations and responses are complex. If they were simple management/leadership would be easy!!

As I say to bblg, I think he has two clear games I can recall of breathtaking stupidity against PL teams. In some big matches (Arsenal, Chelsea and City) he’s been composed and either good or excellent.

We’ll disagree on what the evidence already says I suppose but we’ll agree that he’s worthy of more time

Rocksuperstar · May 5, 2019

LeParisien said:
At the end of last year he played brilliantly against Chelsea and Arsenal. He’s done well in lots of other games. Solid against city away recently.

No-one's saying he hasn't had good games, but when he does boil over it's fast and fatal for him playing the rest of the game. The risk is there and he apparently doesn't have much middle ground which he needs to have coached out of him - he needs to learn how to not let that moment of fire overwhelm him in the moment like it has done.

If he got regular games in a comparatively tough league, which I believe the Championship is, I think he would mature into a well rounded defender, he just needs to pace himself and supress that flash fire that goes off in his head sometimes.

LeParisien · May 5, 2019

Rocksuperstar said:
No-one's saying he hasn't had good games, but when he does boil over it's fast and fatal for him playing the rest of the game. The risk is there and he apparently doesn't have much middle ground which he needs to have coached out of him - he needs to learn how to not let that moment of fire overwhelm him in the moment like it has done.

If he got regular games in a comparatively tough league, which I believe the Championship is, I think he would mature into a well rounded defender, he just needs to pace himself and supress that flash fire that goes off in his head sometimes.

So two games against mid level PL teams is enough to override the other 10 games including against 3 of the top 6?

I think you hit the nail on the head though and you’ve helped explain it to me. His transgressions are so ridiculously overblown and memorable that people are icing them more weight than the vast majority of games where he is composed and excellent. Same reason people are irrationally afraid of flying or terrorism !!

EastLondonYid · May 5, 2019

LeParisien said:
I feel like an alien here ...

https://www.transfermarkt.fr/juan-f.../480763/saison/2018/wettbewerb/GB1/verein/148

Look at the games he’s played in there. Which ones entailed mistakes beyond Wolves and Bournemouth yday?

At the end of last year he played brilliantly against Chelsea and Arsenal. He’s done well in lots of other games. Solid against city away recently.

Have I suffered from amnesia ? What is all this based on? Specific games please.

Scum away 4-2 he tried to dribble out, slipped and they scored
Not hanging him out to dry, just answering your request.

punkisback · May 5, 2019

Paolo10 said:
What kind of fucking mental gymnastics is this?! It looked bad because it was a bad challenge, a dangerous challenge.

If the same challenge was made against us, you'd expect a red card without hesitation.

Honestly I would expect that to be given against us nowadays. Burnley put in some horrible challenges but the ref and the commentators all followed the “typical strong Burnley” narrative. Mitrovic pulling out a wrestling move on Sanchez, Kane getting elbowed in the head when he’s on the floor; and one of these punished. We have one little push and we get a red. It just seems that teams who roughhouse have a licence to get away with it.

Archibald&Crooks · May 5, 2019

EastLondonYid said:
Scum away 4-2 he tried to dribble out, slipped and they scored
Not hanging him out to dry, just answering your request.

Which scum? We hate so many teams these days it's hard to keep up

EastLondonYid · May 5, 2019

Archibald&Crooks said:
Which scum? We hate so many teams these days it's hard to keep up

4-2 should guide you there...

Rocksuperstar · May 5, 2019

LeParisien said:
So two games against mid level PL teams is enough to override the other 10 games including against 3 of the top 6?

Sadly, yes. A sending off has a huge impact on the whole team and expectations are high.

I think you hit the nail on the head though and you’ve helped explain it to me. His transgressions are so ridiculously overblown and memorable that people are icing them more weight than the vast majority of games where he is composed and excellent. Same reason people are irrationally afraid of flying or terrorism !!

That's entirely it - remember when Sanchez stared for us, had a handful of really good games, but once or twice just looked completely lost with strikers buying free-kicks off of him like they were half price, then... Can't remember, might've been Watford? he got sent off and immediately his stock dropped with a ton of fans. Despite the fact he had shown that he was a talent, within maybe a dozen games, some fans had already written him off.

Looking at him now, he's not set the place alight, he just gets on with his job (and sometimes puts the fear up me with his positioning), but the careless flappy leg that fast wingers kept conveniently tripping over was gone and he's starting to look more focused with every game. It's a slow process, getting used to the EPL but it'll come for Foyth too if he keeps at it.

LeParisien · May 5, 2019

EastLondonYid said:
Scum away 4-2 he tried to dribble out, slipped and they scored
Not hanging him out to dry, just answering your request.

That’s fair enough !

Not a temperament issue in the same way but a mistake no doubt !

Deleted member 27995 · May 5, 2019

I think all this talk raises an interesting point.

People moan about Poch not giving youth a chance when people are in full digital fist shaking flow, yet when he does give the likes of KWP and foyth their head and puts them in and they make mistakes and he drops them people question why ...

I heard that Troy Parrott is mustard, he would probably smash a hatrick against Everton.

#beleiveinyouf

Archibald&Crooks · May 5, 2019

EastLondonYid said:
4-2 should guide you there...

Sorry, I got nothing. The days of me keeping scores stacked in my head are long gone

EastLondonYid · May 5, 2019

Archibald&Crooks said:
Sorry, I got nothing. The days of me keeping scores stacked in my head are long gone

Lol me too, but I've got my son sat next to me trying to watch Sunday supplement and me in his ear... he's my spurs encyclopedia

HW61 · May 5, 2019

I get the negative views on here, but boy what my eyes see is a lad oozing in so much talent under the stewardship of one of the best coaching teams in the world.

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Player Watch: Juan Foyth

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