Supporters Age Vs Ideas of Success

Led's Zeppelin · Feb 24, 2016

The high-point of competitive club football in Europe was reached when you ha a European Cup for league champions, a Cup Winners' Cup (you can probably work out who that was for) and a UEFA cup that was a genuinely prestigious competition often regarded as the most difficult to win.

The FA Cup was still a serious and glamorous competition to rival the league (which is why The Double was an extraordinary and rare achievement) and there was no nonsense about 4th place being a trophy.

Well, that makes me sound about 86 years old.

Will someone help me get my slippers on please?

DaSpurs · Feb 24, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
I would like us to establish ourselves as a top 4 team, and from that the cup success is more likely to follow.

This is not only a fact as history shows us, but sums up this matter very well.

With more prestige and more money comes reinforcing a better squad for the future, and with that directly comes a higher likelihood of winning trophies. There will be outliers, but the above is a prevalent trend that is seen in every league in every sport, and especially football now with the money and prestige/attention currently associated with the Champions League.

Every single fan loves winning trophies. It bothers me to see those "preferring cups" suggest that those who choose prioritizing top four insinuate that the latter enjoy cup wins any less. That is simply not true. It is an opinion bred with mind towards the long term, a very simple understanding of business, and a realistic acknowledgement of how modern players and their agents operate.

talkshowhost86 · Feb 24, 2016

For those people who would prefer cup wins to finishing top 4, would you be happy with us winning one of the cups every season, but continuously finishing mid-table (and therefore having no European football at all)?

I'm not saying that's wrong, just wondering if that's the case.

TSH edit: Idiocy highlighted rather than deleted as punishment for idiocy.

Archibald&Crooks · Feb 24, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
For those people who would prefer cup wins to finishing top 4, would you be happy with us winning one of the cups every season, but continuously finishing mid-table (and therefore having no European football at all)?

I'm not saying that's wrong, just wondering if that's the case.

Winning a cup means you qualify for european football. Doesn't it? :cautious:

talkshowhost86 · Feb 24, 2016

Archibald&Crooks said:
Winning a cup means you qualify for european football. Doesn't it?

Yes.

Shut up.

talkshowhost86 · Feb 24, 2016

Okay...so ignore the Europe part...would you enjoy us winning a cup every season (whichever of the three we'd be in) and finish mid-table every season?

Led's Zeppelin · Feb 24, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
Okay...so ignore the Europe part...would you enjoy us winning a cup every season (whichever of the three we'd be in) and finish mid-table every season?

Yes, because it'd give us all something to slightly different to moan about every year.

On reflection, no it wouldn't.

It'd be "If we're good enough to win the Robertson's Jam Golly Cup every year, why won't the tight-fisted git invest just a bit more in the team so we can for once in my lifetime finish higher than 11th?"

So not that different.

So no.

TottenhamMattSpur · Feb 24, 2016

Led's Zeppelin said:
The high-point of competitive club football in Europe was reached when you had a European Cup for league champions, a Cup Winners' Cup (you can probably work out who that was for) and a UEFA cup that was a genuinely prestigious competition often regarded as the most difficult to win.

The FA Cup was still a serious and glamorous competition to rival the league (which is why The Double was an extraordinary and rare achievement) and there was no nonsense about 4th place being a trophy.

Well, that makes me sound about 86 years old.

Will someone help me get my slippers on please?

Bolded bits are all I need to highlight how it's changed beyond recognition.

Led's Zeppelin · Feb 24, 2016

TottenhamMattSpur said:
Bolded bits are all I need to highlight how it's changed beyond recognition.

Agreed. That was the point of the post.

I don't think you needed to highlight anything.

Most people understand the past tense.

but thanks anyway!

TottenhamMattSpur · Feb 24, 2016

Led's Zeppelin said:
Agreed. That was the point of the post.

I don't think you needed to highlight anything.

Most people understand the past tense.

but thanks anyway!

I wasn't being critical of you. I think you did a great job illustrating how, love it or loathe it, the game had changed.

talkshowhost86 · Feb 24, 2016

Led's Zeppelin said:
Yes, because it'd give us all something to slightly different to moan about every year.

On reflection, no it wouldn't.

It'd be "If we're good enough to win the Robertson's Jam Golly Cup every year, why won't the tight-fisted git invest just a bit more in the team so we can for once in my lifetime finish higher than 11th?"

So not that different.

So no.

I think this is it.

Basically if we have one without the other, we'll always want the other.

Whilst Arsenal were repeatedly finishing top 4, they were always unhappy because they weren't winning trophies.

But I bet if they were winning trophies and not finishing top 4 they'd whinge about that instead.

Basically it's all about improving as a force on all fronts, which then allows us to compete in the league and in the cups. For us to do that, in the short-term I think regular Champions League football is much more important.

Led's Zeppelin · Feb 24, 2016

TottenhamMattSpur said:
I wasn't being critical of you. I think you did a great job illustrating how, love it or loathe it, the game had changed.

No, I appreciate that.

I do think the whole CL structure has served to create an elite group of clubs that has diminished competition across the board, across Europe.

Strangely, it's the SKY and BT money pouring in at the moment that may rescue the situation to some extent by enabling a larger number of clubs to compete, but it is still highly imperfect, artificial and restricted to a relatively small group of clubs, albeit slightly larger than it was until two or three years ago.

But with the utter wankers who are in control of the game at the FA, UEFA and, needless to say, FIFA, nothing is likely to improve much.

CosmicHotspur · Feb 24, 2016

I was lucky enough to Spurs have it all and I want that again.

I want us to be top of the table.

I want silverware, domestic and European.

I want a team that stays and plays and matures and wins together.

That's all. :whistle:

TaoistMonkey · Feb 24, 2016

At the end of the day when you're old and looking at your Trophy cabinet and its empty, all this "but we're a top 4 side" is pretty much bollocks isn't it.

Led's Zeppelin · Feb 24, 2016

TaoistMonkey said:
At the end of the day when you're old and looking at your Trophy cabinet and its empty, all this "but we're a top 4 side" is pretty much bollocks isn't it.

Maybe, but winning a tin-pot trophy that's been castrated of any real substance by the dreadful way the game has been managed over the last two decades just so you can put a meaningless shiny thing in a cupboard is not a real alternative. Not for a club that actually wants to compete and be successful.

The FA Cup is no more meaningful than 4th place anymore. I hate that, but it's true.

wishkah · Feb 24, 2016

the poll shows me there a lot of people of working age clearly not doing any work.

Holla to ma brothas!

TaoistMonkey · Feb 24, 2016

Led's Zeppelin said:
Maybe, but winning a tin-pot trophy that's been castrated of any real substance by the dreadful way the game has been managed over the last two decades just so you can put a meaningless shiny thing in a cupboard is not a real alternative. Not for a club that actually wants to compete and be successful.

The FA Cup is no more meaningful than 4th place anymore. I hate that, but it's true.

I'm sure if Spurs were winning everything then other teams would make a bit more effort. You'll see in a few years when Poch grows this squad that we will compete in all comps without having to "sacrifice" anything. No other teams can really do that at the moment.

longtimespur · Feb 24, 2016

Not trying to upset anyone but some of these posts sound like they're being made by spoiled kids who are never happy with their presents.
I am lucky enough to have followed our great club for over 60 years so I have seen us win trophies and league titles.
Would I love us to do it again in my remaining years on this planet.? You bet I would..
I would also love for all our fans to witness the successes that have come during my lifetime as a Spurs fan. In my opinion we have a very good chance to do that in the next few years if things keep evolving as they are.
Would I be disappointed if we don't manage that before my time ends, yes I would but it's not the most important thing in my life anymore.
Always followed THFC and always will.
COYS.

Monkey boy · Feb 24, 2016

Bobbins said:
We absolutely have to win a cup in the next couple of years, so we can continue being the only club alongside United that have won a trophy in each of the last six decades...

Other than that, I don't know or really care any more tbh.

The League Cup is now thought of as a Mickey Mouse cup by everyone, despite it actually being worth winning. We're now seeing the FA Cup going down the same route where people couldn't care less about it. The top 4 doesn't even feel like much of an achievement this season considering what's happening.

The title would feel special but I couldn't see us dominating even were we to win that - I'm sure the FA/UEFA/Women's Institute could come up with some elaborate way to screw us out of winning it at the last minute or disqualifying us from the CL next season anyway.

Football just doesn't mean that much to me anymore, to the point where the individual trophies or achievements, and consequences of them, just have much less relevance to my life than they did say 5 or 10 years ago. I should be incredibly proud of our team and the fact we have so many young, home-grown players but as much as I'm enjoying this season I just still don't feel that connection of years past.

It's totally my problem, nothing to do with the club. It's a problem I have with football in general these days - basically it's a pretty shitty sport. Full of wankers, awful football clubs and billionaires. The media coverage is infuriatingly terrible and completely and utterly biased (in favour of the clubs I hate the most). I also absolutely hate football fans in general - this is almost entirely the fault of social media, which is an endless assault of idiot children, knuckle-dragging meatheads, chip-on-your-shoulder northern or Scottish wankers and African Football Experts who think football was invented by Arsenal in 2007. Consequently much of the pride and bragging rights that comes with winning stuff is lost in a sea of dismissive denial, racism, piss-taking and general internet ****yness which infects so much of our world these days.

If Spurs win something I'll be over the moon and immensely proud for a little while, but the long-term feeling of happiness and satisfaction - hell, even just general passion - went out of the game a while ago for me, and shows little sign of coming back.

You have nailed my feelings to a tee YET like me you are pretty much on here every day so perhaps we do still care way more than we should?

Lighty64 · Feb 25, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
Okay...so ignore the Europe part...would you enjoy us winning a cup every season (whichever of the three we'd be in) and finish mid-table every season?

well if we won the EL, then the CL every year after and be finishing 6th I could suffer being CL champ, though would love to win the league every year too

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