Player Watch Player Watch: Harry Winks

sausage

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I think he just lacks consistency and a niche. I don't really know what he is - some games he has played like Modric (sitting deep, spraying quality passes about), others like Parker (letting no one past his line in the pitch, tackling tough and winning the ball), and sometimes like Dembele (ball retention, dribbling, bringing players into play).

That isn't a direct comparison to other players, but more their style of play. He can be like a different player from one game to the next. That isn't really meant as a compliment, but it's hard to nail down a place if you don't know what place you're trying to nail down. Kind of like has a good game in a particular role, then the next game he'll stink out the place in the exact same role.
 

wrd

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I think he just lacks consistency and a niche. I don't really know what he is - some games he has played like Modric (sitting deep, spraying quality passes about), others like Parker (letting no one past his line in the pitch, tackling tough and winning the ball), and sometimes like Dembele (ball retention, dribbling, bringing players into play).

That isn't a direct comparison to other players, but more their style of play. He can be like a different player from one game to the next. That isn't really meant as a compliment, but it's hard to nail down a place if you don't know what place you're trying to nail down. Kind of like has a good game in a particular role, then the next game he'll stink out the place in the exact same role.
Omg cant believe you think he's modric, parker and Dembele in one player.
 

sausage

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Omg cant believe you think he's modric, parker and Dembele in one player.
Did you know if you cross Parker with Modric you get Mark Noble?

It was a plausible experiment - no idea why he can't play football for shit.

parkdric.png
 

RichieS

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If you play Lo Celso, Ndombele and Winks together, do you need a DCM? As Lo Celso and Winks break up the play and I am sure Ndombele will/does as well! As long as they all out in the effort it gives all 3 freedom to attack or sit back if the other 2 go forward and doesn't limit they way we set up.
I think this is José's plan. It seems to be the case that teams currently aim to keep 3 players back when in possession and on the attack. Poche achieved this by employing a dedicated DM because he wanted both full backs high up. Mourinho is doing it using a full back which negates the need for the DM and gives more scope for playing more progressive CM's.
 

Teofilo-Stevenson

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Winks has the ability to play the game like Xavi or Modrić - when playing confidently he can genuinely look like he would slot into Barcas midfield no problem. When lacking confidence he stops playing it forward, stops offering for the ball and can look very average. You might say its a "confidence issue", but the lad seems to thrive in big games - he has heart and thrives under pressure. His trouble is that hes just too nice - he is too humble to go out and play like hes a superstar - when there is a supposedly more senior midfielder in the side he meekly takes the supporting role rather than demanding the ball and taking the lead. With most players a little more humility would usually be a good thing - Winks is the exact opposite - he needs more of an ego, he needs to go into games believing and acting like he is the most technically and tactically complete centre mid at the club. A great centre mid has the self belief / arrogance to lead and dictate play. Pochettino's group ethos had its merits - one deficiency for Winks was that he was coached to be a selfless cog in the team machine, rather than seeing his teammates as chess pieces at his disposal. I think Jose sees the midfielder as more of an on field general that Poch did. That could be a gamechanger for Winks.
 

McFlash

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I think, in the last couple of games especially, Winks has been bloody brilliant.
Worked his bollocks off, made some fantastic tackles and has played some lovely (forward) passes.

Add his passion and obvious love for the club and I really don't understand how some fans don't appreciate him.
 

paddieu

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Winks has the ability to play the game like Xavi or Modrić - when playing confidently he can genuinely look like he would slot into Barcas midfield no problem. When lacking confidence he stops playing it forward, stops offering for the ball and can look very average. You might say its a "confidence issue", but the lad seems to thrive in big games - he has heart and thrives under pressure. His trouble is that hes just too nice - he is too humble to go out and play like hes a superstar - when there is a supposedly more senior midfielder in the side he meekly takes the supporting role rather than demanding the ball and taking the lead. With most players a little more humility would usually be a good thing - Winks is the exact opposite - he needs more of an ego, he needs to go into games believing and acting like he is the most technically and tactically complete centre mid at the club. A great centre mid has the self belief / arrogance to lead and dictate play. Pochettino's group ethos had its merits - one deficiency for Winks was that he was coached to be a selfless cog in the team machine, rather than seeing his teammates as chess pieces at his disposal. I think Jose sees the midfielder as more of an on field general that Poch did. That could be a gamechanger for Winks.
thats the best summary ive seen so far... humble/nice etc, yep i'm very fond of the lad and believe he has it in him to be much more.

but in addition to what you say- and its hard to tell -
and also hard to describe as well -
he might just be a bit 'love island thick'

not that u have to be smart in general to be smart at football as we all know [hi gazza]

and of course Dier is a good example of the opposite (!) side of this coin

but there is elsewhere
a general modern dumbing down happening which may play into what you describe
[and with other young players, both at spurs and elsewhere]

i dont get that feeling from skippy for example
 

paddieu

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He has several qualities in common with Steve Perryman but its too late at night to be arsed to dig into that one
 

Montalbano

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I think a lot of his uninspiring performances are a result of the formations we've been playing and the poor technical abilities of our other midfielders. For this reason, it has been difficult for people to reason why Winks has been struggling - is he a poor footballer or has he been struggling to perform a role in a team/system that doesn't suit his strengths?

Winks is perfectly suited to be the deepest lying midfielder in a progressive midfield 3 that is technical, athletic and defensively disciplined (i.e. midfield of Ndombele, Winks, Lo Celso). He’s looked great in a midfield 3 with England but has rarely played in one for our club. Instead he’s mostly been deployed in a double pivot alongside technically challenged players like Dier and Sissoko that he doesn’t trust to a) receive a pass under pressure and b) break lines. Not only does a 4-3-3 better suit Winks’ style of play, but our current personnel playing alongside him (Ndombele, Lo Celso) allows him to push the creative and transitional duties to our other more athletic and creative midfield. This ultimately allows him to focus on what he’s best at - knitting play together and stopping attacks.

If we don't adopt a midfield 3, I can see Winks continuing to struggle and arguments about him continuing. He's not a natural #8 or #6, but something in between, and that's what makes him perfect in a 3 man midfield.
 
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Hakkz

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This pretty much sums up how he argues:

Person A: Winks reminds me of Modric and Kroos

Primativ: OMG he no where near the same level as those two

Person B: I think Winks can become an important player at Spurs

Primativ: If you really think that Winks could become our most important player then you're deluded mate.

That with the added bonus on doubling down on his opinion and wanting to be proved right so much that he'll write paragraphs and use a tiny inch of data and stretch it just so they it suits his confirmation bias.

Makes this thread utterly toxic, funny watching him tie himself up in knots though ultimately sad that a Spurs fans can be so negative about their own player just to score some points on the internet.
Don't forget the "I just use my eyes and I can clearly see that X is better than Winks at everything, so he's clearly nowhere good enough"
 

Japhet

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My opinion of Winks, which I stated way,way back in the thread, is that he probably does what he's told. If he's told to keep it simple and safe that's what he tries to do, and if he's asked to try a more expansive role, that's what he does. His progressive play is also very much linked to the movement of players ahead of him which has often been poor. The one thing he needs to improve on is some of his defensive positioning but he's getting there. I think he'll fit in really well with Ndombele and Lo Celso in a CM3, but like most of our players in that area, a CM2 is stretching it too much.
 

Danny1

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Why can’t people just accept he had a good game and has had good games in the past. I don’t think his general form has been good enough over the last year, however I’m always willing to give him time under Mourinho and will hope that he can regain his form and play consistently like he has in the past. He is a Tottenham boy through and through and will always out 100% effort in every single game.

Also, maybe the drop in form coincided with the fact he was playing with Sissoko in midfield who, as we all know, isn’t the greatest and also could have been down to Pochs change in tactics during the last year of his reign.

I guess all I’m saying is that he deserves another chance, like all players, under Mou and hope he makes it and becomes the player we have seen on a consistent basis. People expecting Modric or Gerrard are going to be disappointed but he can be a very good player for the club, one that cares more than almost every other player.
 

dudu

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He absolutely offers less. I actually can't believe there are fans who are trying to make out Winks is on the same level as GLC and Ndombele. The gulf in class is massive. It is completely delusional.
See this is a prime example of what I am saying. The gulf in class is not massive and it's not delusional to suggest otherwise.

NDombele can't even keep up with the toughest league in the world yet so how you can even begin to start assuming that is confusing.

You could say something like "despite being different types of players, from what I have seen so far I think NDombele has a higher ceiling than Winks"

That would be a normal thing to say based on the actual things we have seen of the players.
 

McFlash

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See this is a prime example of what I am saying. The gulf in class is not massive and it's not delusional to suggest otherwise.

NDombele can't even keep up with the toughest league in the world yet so how you can even begin to start assuming that is confusing.

You could say something like "despite being different types of players, from what I have seen so far I think NDombele has a higher ceiling than Winks"

That would be a normal thing to say based on the actual things we have seen of the players.
But this is SC.
Something's either brilliant or shit!

Let's not start having a middle ground where people are actually sensible and reasonable.
Some people in here should be writing for the fucking tabloids.
 

dtxspurs

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But this is SC.
Something's either brilliant or shit!

Let's not start having a middle ground where people are actually sensible and reasonable.
Some people in here should be writing for the fucking tabloids.
How about he's just 'good' and is capable of a game like that every once in while, but that isn't the consistent outcome and his criticisms have been completely valid this season. He doesn't make enough tackles/interceptions to play DM and doesn't do enough offensively to justify a spot over Lo Celso and a fit Ndombele. But he's a great player to have in the squad.
 

Ronwol196061

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I think if NDombele keeps up the great attacking play and we spend more time attacking now,Winks will be good back there. He isn't the best defender in the world but he does have good qualities and we definitely get better. he doesn't need to be the most creative or anything. Just steady in defence and an eye for the medium pass which he has been showing a bit more recently. For tougher opposition he needs another DM next to him though
 

dudu

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How about he's just 'good' and is capable of a game like that every once in while, but that isn't the consistent outcome and his criticisms have been completely valid this season. He doesn't make enough tackles/interceptions to play DM and doesn't do enough offensively to justify a spot over Lo Celso and a fit Ndombele. But he's a great player to have in the squad.
I think everyone has deserved criticism this season. From Son, to Hugo and everyone in-between.

NDombele hasn't been fit or defensively sound enough to justify his spot over anyone either yet tho i will agree that Lo Celso has been stamping his authority on our midfield the last month.
 

Ronwol196061

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I think everyone has deserved criticism this season. From Son, to Hugo and everyone in-between.

NDombele hasn't been fit or defensively sound enough to justify his spot over anyone either yet tho i will agree that Lo Celso has been stamping his authority on our midfield the last month.
Ndombele shouldn't be a defender,you can see him on the field when attacking he doesn't want for any energy he has it all
 

Shadydan

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How about he's just 'good' and is capable of a game like that every once in while, but that isn't the consistent outcome and his criticisms have been completely valid this season. He doesn't make enough tackles/interceptions to play DM and doesn't do enough offensively to justify a spot over Lo Celso and a fit Ndombele. But he's a great player to have in the squad.
Yet Poch and now Mourinho have picked him to play as a DM...he must have nudes of both managers.
 
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