Player Watch Player Watch...Dele Alli

spids

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He's not clinical enough to be a forward in that sense.
Ans yet Son and Moura up top has really not worked out has it. Dele would not be there to score but to link play (as he did last night when he came on and changed the game with two assists).
 
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Ans yet Son and Moura up top has really not worked out has it. Dele would not be there to score but to link play (as he did last night when he came on and changed the game with two assists).
Dele came on specifically in the link role, and did great at it. He wasn't playing as a forward.

Lucas I agree is not a forward. Son has proven himself up front over the years however.
 
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I respectfully agree and disagree with this point! Then again it's all about the semantics. I think Dele could do a job up top, like Cahill has done for everton in the past.
I don't think he's owt like Tim Cahill. He was a very physical and dynamic player.

I think Dele would be isolated and ineffective as the focal point of an attack.
 

spids

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A false 9 is basically a center forward who can score goals clinically, but also drop in front of the defence to collect and create. Its less a tactical style, and more a rare blessing of a uniquely talented player that you can take advantage of in this way. Messi is the absolute best example of it.
Sorry - but it really has nothing to do with scoring goals clinically. Of course the best ones (like Messi) do. A false 9 , is an unconventional lone striker or centre-forward, who starts in a traditional CF position but drops into midfield. The purpose of this is that it creates a problem for opposing centre-backs who can either follow the false 9, leaving space behind them for onrushing midfielders, forwards or wingers to exploit, or leaving the false 9 to have time and space. This is perfect for Dele as (a) he is great at finding pockets of space, and (b) we have Son, Moura and Bergwijn who can run past him and take advantage of the gaps he creates. A bit like Moura's goal last night. really.

We played a similar system with Lamela and Dele taking it in turns to be the false 9 away at Stamford Bridge in 2018 when Kan was about to come back from his first ankle injury. I recall we scored 3 that day after being 0-1 down.
 

spids

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I don't think he's owt like Tim Cahill. He was a very physical and dynamic player.

I think Dele would be isolated and ineffective as the focal point of an attack.
I do not think anyone is suggesting it would be Dele's best position, it's more a case of it being better than what we've had to date with Moura up top on his own. Ideally we'd have Kane or a suitable back up up top and Dele, Moura, Son and Bergwijn all competing to be supporting forwards.
 

Khilari

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Loved Dele's cameo (all 30min of it). Creative, found the pockets, unbelievable through ball for Sonny's goal and really getting back to his best.
 
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I do not think anyone is suggesting it would be Dele's best position, it's more a case of it being better than what we've had to date with Moura up top on his own. Ideally we'd have Kane or a suitable back up up top and Dele, Moura, Son and Bergwijn all competing to be supporting forwards.
I don't think it would be any less ineffective playing Dele there instead of Lucas. We have tried that approach, and it falls down with Son and Lucas being profligate with those opportunities. With Kane amiss I think the best approach is to simply play Son as the focal striker, which he's good at, and play Dele where he's best.
 

wrd

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Loved Dele's cameo (all 30min of it). Creative, found the pockets, unbelievable through ball for Sonny's goal and really getting back to his best.
I mean you look at the Ndombele sub cameo's and he looks fucking brilliant, then for every start he has he doesn't look like that player (Norwich aside) which leads me to believe that in those sub appearances, both Dele and Tanguy are able to absolutely go for it without the worry of conserving energy and that next Dele has been running on empty. When we're in a position where we can get Dele firing on all cylinders fitness wise, possibly next season then we will see performances consistently like this.
 
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Sorry - but it really has nothing to do with scoring goals clinically. Of course the best ones (like Messi) do. A false 9 , is an unconventional lone striker or centre-forward, who starts in a traditional CF position but drops into midfield. The purpose of this is that it creates a problem for opposing centre-backs who can either follow the false 9, leaving space behind them for onrushing midfielders, forwards or wingers to exploit, or leaving the false 9 to have time and space. This is perfect for Dele as (a) he is great at finding pockets of space, and (b) we have Son, Moura and Bergwijn who can run past him and take advantage of the gaps he creates. A bit like Moura's goal last night. really.

We played a similar system with Lamela and Dele taking it in turns to be the false 9 away at Stamford Bridge in 2018 when Kan was about to come back from his first ankle injury. I recall we scored 3 that day after being 0-1 down.
I think scoring goals is essential. Otherwise its not a 9. It's just any old player there.

Spain tried that with Fabregas one world cup, and they ended up scoring bugger all goals and getting knocked out. The times that its been successful has been with players like Messi, Firminio, Totti... all the way back to Sindelaar... (yes I've been reading Inverting the Pyramid)
 

spids

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I think scoring goals is essential. Otherwise its not a 9. It's just any old player there.
... but it's not a 9 ... it's a 'false 9' for that very reason. They are not expected to score goals, they create them. I disagree with your original statement. The 'false 9' is a specific (tactical) position, and not the term for a very skillful attacking player who can both score and create (as you seemed to suggest earlier). The false 9's main purpose is to give the opposition CBs a problem - do they follow them into midfield and leave gaps to be exploited by pacey attackers, or do they stand their ground, mark no-one and concede midfield. It is suited to teams who play possession based football rather than counter attacking (so probably not suited to a Mourinho team).

Spain tried that with Fabregas one world cup, and they ended up scoring bugger all goals and getting knocked out. The times that its been successful has been with players like Messi, Firminio, Totti... all the way back to Sindelaar... (yes I've been reading Inverting the Pyramid)
Firstly, Firminio does score important goals, but hasn't scored at Anfield this season (as he drops deep making space for Mane and Sane to get the glory).

It is more important for the player in the false 9 position to be able to take advantage of the space they may get 'in the hole' as their role is primarily to create and make space, But obviously you want someone who can score if they get a chance. The chances should fall to the other 2 or 3 attacking midfielders / strikers who will be running into any vacated space (as Son and Moura did last night).
 
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spids

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I don't think it would be any less ineffective playing Dele there instead of Lucas. We have tried that approach, and it falls down with Son and Lucas being profligate with those opportunities. With Kane amiss I think the best approach is to simply play Son as the focal striker, which he's good at, and play Dele where he's best.
I cannot disagree with that.

But if it was a choice of Moura as a CF or Dele as a false 9 with Moura and Son wide, I'd choose the latter,
 
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... but it's not a 9 ... it's a 'false 9' for that very reason. They are not expected to score goals, they create them. I disagree with your original statement. The 'false 9' is a specific (tactical) position, and not the term for a very skillful attacking player who can both score and create (as you seemed to suggest earlier). The false 9's main purpose is to give the opposition CBs a problem - do they follow them into midfield and leave gaps to be exploited by pacey attackers, or do they stand their ground, mark no-one and concede midfield. It is suited to teams who play possession based football rather than counter attacking (so probably not suited to a Mourinho team).



Firstly, Firminio does score important goals, but hasn't scored at Anfield this season (as he drops deep making space for Mane and Sane to get the glory).

It is more important for the player in the false 9 position to be able to take advantage of the space they may get 'in the hole' as their role is primarily to create and make space, But obviously you want someone who can score if they get a chance. The chances should fall to the other 2 or 3 attacking midfielders / strikers who will be running into any vacated space (as Son and Moura did last night).
Fair enough, I find little there that I can disagree with.

However for me, its a bit of an inert tactic to use unless you have that gifted player. Ultimately, I wouldn't use Dele in that role.
 

spids

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Fair enough, I find little there that I can disagree with.

However for me, its a bit of an inert tactic to use unless you have that gifted player. Ultimately, I wouldn't use Dele in that role.
I would agree with that too (other than when we have a CF injury crisis and are playing abject football and being out played at home by Southampton). ;)
 

spursfan77

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23-year old attacking midfielder with 85 goals and 68 assists in 300 appearances may not be 'good enough' say Spurs fans
Is he our not as good Matt Le Tissier? Lots of goals and assists but that’s it. Le Tiss was a wonderfulplayer but had Internet forums been around when he played I suspect people would have had the same debate about him.
 

spursfan77

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People have banged on about Maddison and Grealish this season and they are both good players but would I want them in the positions Dele plays for us or England. No thanks. Dele is better than both of them and I think Grealish is a really good player. I suspect Southgate will say the same when he picks his euros squad.
 

Archibald&Crooks

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Is he our not as good Matt Le Tissier? Lots of goals and assists but that’s it. Le Tiss was a wonderfulplayer but had Internet forums been around when he played I suspect people would have had the same debate about him.
You're not wrong. IMO Matt Le Tissier would have been a god at Spurs. He's exactly the kind of player we used to drool over. Just shows how the nature of it all has changed, I mean 'lots of goals and assists and that it' says it all really. Isn't that what the game is about? Take away the goals and assists, swap him for a player that doesn't try flicks, point, give the ball away and some people be happy. I genuinely don't understand that at all.

Dele is a fine player and he contributes his share. OK he blows hot and cold, who hasn't this season? If we're going to be brutally honest, the real problem is that a few people have got their teeth in and they won't let go. He's nowhere near as bad as people like to make out, but that is the very nature of SC scapedom :D

All is of course, in my humble onion.
 

McFlash

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Tonight is what he should be restricted to, super sub. That is basically his role. Alli had a good cameo but he's still awful 90% time he plays. Same with Moura, I know he scored but they just aren't good enough.
Are there any of our players that you actually rate?!
 

Khilari

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I mean you look at the Ndombele sub cameo's and he looks fucking brilliant, then for every start he has he doesn't look like that player (Norwich aside) which leads me to believe that in those sub appearances, both Dele and Tanguy are able to absolutely go for it without the worry of conserving energy and that next Dele has been running on empty. When we're in a position where we can get Dele firing on all cylinders fitness wise, possibly next season then we will see performances consistently like this.
I think he's actually been really good this season - even with Pochettino. We've really struggled in central midfield and in our fullback positions.

On that note, Harry Winks has been performing really well too.
 

dontcallme

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Is he our not as good Matt Le Tissier? Lots of goals and assists but that’s it. Le Tiss was a wonderful player but had Internet forums been around when he played I suspect people would have had the same debate about him.
It's an interesting point. Worth remembering Le Tissier starred for a team constantly battling relegation and didn't get a chance at international level. Getting goals and assists for a team at that level works as they can put workers around him to allow for his extra ability.

Alli has good numbers but to get more of a free role he would need to get better than what he currently offers. I always felt when we were pressing high successfully that Alli was a part of that. Since his return the work rate at times has not been at the same level.

The game has changed a lot, especially with fitness levels. I suspect Le Tiss would get marked better in the modern game.
 
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