Player Watch: Pierre-Emile Højbjerg

[DiVaio]

People saying about Jose rating winks.... does he really though ? I mean what other options has he had instead of him ? None! So no one really knows exactly what Jose thinks of winks and also sissoko for that matter! Jose making hojbjerg his main target does tell us he isn’t happy with that area of the park though

Winks and Hojbjerg are different players. He made him captain, 5th of most minutes played under Mourinho, was saying positive things about him, Yeah I think he rates him

 

[C0YS]

Winks' issue is that he's still not good enough to play as a #6 by himself, which is why he has Sissoko next to him. He would be better with a real #6 next to him, but we already have better #8 options in GLC and N'Dombele.

I disagree with the talk of him not being quick, he's got quite a good burst of pace. His passing is safe, he needs to do more things like in the Madrid game at Wembley where he was putting the ball in front of players, not to their feet. It's something quite small, but it makes a massive difference compared to the floated chips into players standing still.

I hope he sticks around, but he needs to become a safe passing, defensively sound #6 or a more progressive #8. Right now he's neither and that will not net him many minutes.

I agree with you.

It's very difficult to do that in the role Winks is playing. Look at that Madrid game, n8 Winks is actually a very mobile player, he had a lot of box to box elements, and the kind of interchange you saw there was things that come from that position, where play opens up clearly in front of you and where you can afford to take risks. A number 6, you can't go forward too often, you have to stay back in most attacks.

Winks is more adventurous with his passing then some here like to admit, particularly in the last few games he was really beginning to gain confidence with his long range passing, switching play a lot more. But, a 5 yard pass is often a progressive pass as well, it's all about opening up space, as Jose calls it, Winks in this role is a 'positional player'. receiving the ball under pressure, or putting himself under pressure with the ball to release another player can really open up play.

I think Winks' future at Spurs probably is a number 6, mainly because I think our future at n.8 looks quite strong, with that being where I like to see Lo Celso play. But, he's still learning that role, and there are disadvantages. Winks is also positionally a very good player, his movement in that role is very good.

I think he was pared with Sissoko, in part because Sissoko gives a bit of physicality in midfield, but he is also a shuttler, very useful in moving the ball out of defence very directly. But the main reason I think he played, is less to do with Winks, though you do need to match him with a physical presence for sure, and more to do with Aurier and that weakness there. More to cover for a very high playing fullback, and he was sort of working in that wide space a lot of the time.

 

[Dirtysanchez6]

Winks and Hojbjerg are different players. He made him captain, 5th of most minutes played under Mourinho, was saying positive things about him, Yeah I think he rates him

think people like to forget he dropped winks a good few times! Like I said he has no other options atm but the fact he dropped him a good few times before the lockdown and again after when he partnered sissoko and gio shows is doesn’t see him as a starter when he has his own/ more options

 

[Ionman34]

And what if we fail?


We did choose to sell Walker. I'm sure he wanted to leave, but lets not pretend we weren't more than happy to accommodate him leaving. But, it's not about choosing or not, it's about selling for a good price, should they leave, maximise investment either by performances or sales.

Bought young and sold for a profit? More than you think. Yes, Eriksen, Walker, Trippier, Wimmer, Chadli and Falque are recent examples. It could be argued that the last three of those players were bought specifically with understanding that we could make value on them rather than turning them into first teamers.

What if we fail?

So we forego a player identified as an improvement, and more likely to get us to CL, in favour of a younger player because they have a sell on value?

What if the younger player fails? You know, like Njie or the Dutch youngster (can't remember his name) that we had so much trouble offloading?

All clubs carry out player trading, speculating on young talent that can either make it or realise a profit, but you don't do it exclusively as is being suggested.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Can't say I've much of southampton over the past couple of seasons to know if this guy is any good or not, I guess being made captain suggests he has some leadership qualities at least. Hopefully he can fit into the puzzle of what we require but Im not getting too excited about him tbh.

 

[C0YS]

What if we fail?

So we forego a player identified as an improvement, and more likely to get us to CL, in favour of a younger player because they have a sell on value?

What if the younger player fails? You know, like Njie or the Dutch youngster (can't remember his name) that we had so much trouble offloading?

All clubs carry out player trading, speculating on young talent that can either make it or realise a profit, but you don't do it exclusively as is being suggested.

Well we made minimum losses for those two players you mentioned. I'm not saying we will. But spending big to try and make CL makes little sense from a sensible financial position.

 

[C0YS]

think people like to forget he dropped winks a good few times! Like I said he has no other options atm but the fact he dropped him a good few times before the lockdown and again after when he partnered sissoko and gio shows is doesn’t see him as a starter when he has his own/ more options

I think most of that was team rotation. Or sometimes, particular team strategies that Jose always has done.

Anyway, him missing a few games does not mean 'he doesn't see him as a starter' as you suggest. Infact the very idea of a 'starter' is a misleading one. The only 'starters' we have are Kane, Son and Hugo. No one else is guaranteed to start, but that's how it works. While good teams tend to show a general stability rotation between players is absolutely normal, be it for tactical purposes or otherwise. A top team should have 14/15 'starters'.

 

[yankspurs]

Its interesting comparing the comments about Winks and Ndombele....

If Winks wants to leave because we’re signing Hojbjerg, let him and give his minutes at DM to Skipp and sign another #8.

 

[SpursAU]

I would be sad if Winks left. I reckon we could definitely start him consistently even if PEH comes in.

Midfield 3 made out of PEH, Winks, Lo Celso, and Ndombele (plus Sissoko if he’s around). Then we just rotate as needed. All 4/5 would still get decent game time. Plus injuries are always a thing.

 

[C0YS]

Its interesting comparing the comments about Winks and Ndombele....

If Winks wants to leave because we’re signing Hojbjerg, let him and give his minutes at DM to Skipp and sign another #8.

Yeh I agree we that. But we should also explain why he shouldn't leave. Some goes with Ndombele.

I don't see the need to sign another N.8 unless we sell Ndombele or Sissoko. If Winks goes we should replace him with another n.6 unless Jose thinks Skipp is ready, though I suspect it will be a loan for him.

 

[Ionman34]

Well we made minimum losses for those two players you mentioned. I'm not saying we will. But spending big to try and make CL makes little sense from a sensible financial position.

I haven't really mentioned price though have I? The post I responded to was suggesting we forego players in favour of younger players because of their sell on value.

It's not about what you spend, it's about getting the right players in. By rights, if they get you into the CL, and competing for trophies, their value is greater than what you'd make by selling them wouldn't you agree?

 

[freeeki]

Winks just isn’t a top 4-calibre player, for me.

I know we romanticise him on here because he came from our academy and was one of very very few youth players to flourish under Pochettino, but in reality, he wouldn’t get into any of our rivals’ teams.

 

[C0YS]

I haven't really mentioned price though have I? The post I responded to was suggesting we forego players in favour of younger players because of their sell on value.

It's not about what you spend, it's about getting the right players in. By rights, if they get you into the CL, and competing for trophies, their value is greater than what you'd make by selling them wouldn't you agree?

I'm not really in disagreement, I'm just saying that it does make sense to do that. I don't believe it's what we are doing but it does make sense. It is a financial strategy that many clubs employ with great success.

You shouldn't model anything financially on CL because it's too unpredictable, and signing older players does make it much harder to see a return. Thing is we are probably too big and not savvy enough to employ that Dortmund, Lyon strategy anyway!

 

[C0YS]

Winks just isn’t a top 4-calibre player, for me.

I know we romanticise him on here because he came from our academy and was one of very very few youth players to flourish under Pochettino, but in reality, he wouldn’t get into any of our rivals’ teams.

I mean, you're right. Winks would never play ahead of the likes of Ross Barkley, Fred, McTominay, Oxlade Chamberlain, Wijnaldum or well any Arsenal midfielder....

As a home grown player as well. We would need to replace him with another Home grown one, not many good ones about.

 

[freeeki]

I mean, you're right. Winks would never play ahead of the likes of Ross Barkley, Fred, McTominay, Oxlade Chamberlain, Wijnaldum or well any Arsenal midfielder....

As a home grown player as well. We would need to replace him with another Home grown one, not many good ones about.

You’ve just listed a load of players who aren’t starters for their clubs, which kind of proves my point really.

And why would we need to replace him directly with another HG player? Surely it doesn’t take too long to realise how illogical that claim is?

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

I’d be a bit disappointed if this Winks situation were the case. Had always kind of thought his love for the club could see him take on a bit of a Darren Fletcher-type squad role in a successful team if we ever outgrew him as a starter.

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

I’d be a bit disappointed if this Winks situation were the case. Had always kind of thought his love for the club could see him take on a bit of a Darren Fletcher-type squad role in a successful team if we ever outgrew him as a starter.

If true and he’s not prepared to do his part based on his ceiling at the club then we let him go.... if not and he’s happy to knuckle down, prove he can be a starter and grow or if not play his part in a squad game then equally great.

Would love to have him as a 22 man squad player, as a starter week in, week out we won’t hit the heights required to keep the likes of Sonny, Lo Celso and Kane. Harsh reality of it unless something drastic changes with him.

 

[C0YS]

You’ve just listed a load of players who aren’t starters for their clubs, which kind of proves my point really.

And why would we need to replace him directly with another HG player? Surely it doesn’t take too long to realise how illogical that claim is?

Erm, firstly, you don't need to be good enough to start to be good enough to be in a top 4 team. You just need to be good enough to contribute.

Secondly:
Winjaldum 35
Winks 26
Fred 23
McTominay 20
OC 17

So they are within the same ball pool.

You don't need to replace directly with home grown players, but we are lacking home grown players. Unless we are happy to have a smaller squad next season. We have a maximum of 17 non home grown players. We currently have 14 or 15 depending if Foyth will qualify as home grown. Before, we had 17 but now Verts and Vorm have left we have a bit more space. Holjberg would take us up to 16 (or 15 as 'm not clear on this) and the signings become complicated. For the Champions League it is even worse because Davies isn't counted as homegrown (until Swansea qualify in Europe and people will realise how absurd it is to separate Wales and England)

So Homegrown is an issue. This why clubs like Chelsea sign the likes of Drinkwater etc. To fill this criteria. Home grown quota is something we really need to look out for this window. So I think my claim is perfectly logical. Right a list of who you want, and try and fit it in to a 25 man squad. Loosing a good effective home grown player isn't ideal, to say the least.

 

[bbunc]

I’d be shocked if the Winks part of this is really true. Seems Tottenham through and through and like he’d be happy to fight for his place. I’d even think he might see it as an opportunity to occasionally shed some of his defensive responsibilities and play as an 8, which I think is his better position anyway.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I think it's fair to say that to have 2 in CM they both have to be exceptional players with an all round skill set. We very obviously haven't had this for a very long time and I'm rather surprised that Poch never worked it out and it took Mourinho a long while before the penny dropped. Our performances imroved greatly once we had enough bodies in midfield to compete, but even then I put a lot of that down to Dele being unavailable through suspension and the extra CM space that provided. I don't think Hojbjerg will be great in a CM2 either but do think he could be decent at the base of a 3. Even Winks would have faired a lot better in the DM role with 2 others in midfield.

Under Poch, I think we only played a midfield two (in the truest sense) during his first season with Mason & Bentaleb.
After that, we had a CDM sitting in front of the defence and dropping into CB when the FBs bombed forwards, while two CMs or a CM + CAM played higher up the field - I'd call that a midfield three, or arguably at times 2.5 in midfield.
Even when we played with 3 CBs under Poch, we had Dier pushing up into CDM midfield when in possession, which released the FBs and rest of the midfield.

In more recent times, as we've both already alluded to:
Lack of proper CDM = CM & CAM having to stay deeper to help out defensively, instead of focusing on attacking and creating.
Lack of a top-quality CM (Winks and Sissoko are not close to Modric / Dembele level) = CDM's limited passing being found wanting (i.e. Dier "not good enough") + CAM dropping back to retrieve the ball from deeper, instead of focusing on attacking, creating and making runs off the CF (i.e. Alli / Eriksen "not good enough").