Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

fishhhandaricecake · Apr 7, 2024

SUIYHA said:
"Ange doesn't have a plan B"

But yet again - a second half turnaround with inspired subs in a game to win a game we were struggling in.

I'd argue that plan B seems to be better than plan A

He just tweaks Plan A.

It’s more like he has a plan A1, A1.1,A1.2,A1.3, they’re all very similar but some nuanced differences to throw at the opposition when needed based on the type of players we have on the pitch, but the formation and fundamentals stay consistent, same as lpool, arsenal and for the most part city. They all drill plan A over and over and over and if it’s not working they change/sub on different type of players within the same structure for a different skillet or new energy.

Also the benefit of him finally having a near fully fit squad to work with.

rossdapep · Apr 7, 2024

T

SUIYHA said:
"Ange doesn't have a plan B"

But yet again - a second half turnaround with inspired subs in a game to win a game we were struggling in.

I'd argue that plan B seems to be better than plan A

The plan B is too increase the intensity.

I said this before but he hasn't been hooking players or dropping players readily because that's an easy way to lose the group.

Piss enough of them off and you can't expect them to play well when you end up having to go back to them.

Jose did that.

He is now starting to sub players and drop them as we are getting close to the end of the season so it can be taken as a little fire up the arses - "Look I want you here but I want to challenge next season and if you can't get back to that level, next season will be diffrent"

Ange won't even tell them that. They need to get the message.

Ultimately, the objective will be for the starting 11 to play with intensity for 60 and then rotation comes in and ensures we finish strong.

That's plan A and B.

Unfortunately, we are having spells and then clearly drop off and then have to make changes to recover it.

We should not compromise our way of playing because some players lose it, it needs drilling in or they need replacing

fishhhandaricecake · Apr 7, 2024

Joely said:
He has done a great job. On course for a CL position and getting 70+ points in his first season. He's had to deal with....
- Losing a world class striker and our best player ahead of the season
- Was left woefully short at CB for half the season and had to deal with both CB's being out at the same time.
- Bought in a number of first team players, a number from abroad who needed to adjust and bed in

Clear from when he speaks that we not near where he wants us and will be looking to push on next season. This will be quite a crucial summer. He has had a whole season to look at the players and think he'll be quite specific when it comes to the type of profiles of players he wants whether they are starters or seen as ones that will thicken the squad/provide cover.

Get the impression he is not one to want to try and and fit square pegs into round holes and you either fit the type of profile for a position in his team or you don't. HIs hand was forced this season as the overhaul were never going to happen in his first transfer window or two and think he has done a good job of keeping players he knew he'd need to rely on this year onside.

However he'll be looking to move away from that as much as possible next season imo so expecting him to be quite ruthless when it comes to exits this summer. Right off the bat, I think the likes of Hojbjerg, Davies, Royal, Gil days are numbered. I doubt Skipp will be happy not getting a look in although suspect we'd be fine keeping him in the squad as a younger, HG/club trained option.

Would not be surprised to see us move on Solomon and bring in Werner on a perm. Think Lo Celso's contract situation see's him leave. Sessegnon also in the last year of his contract but with his injury record who is going to take a chance. Think despite him doing well recently, they'll be a question mark over Richarlison as can't help but feel if the right offer comes in and we feel we can get a striker in, we may do something there.

Great post and spot on mate.

This season has been so challenging and Ange has stayed positive and ambitious throughout, it’s been so refreshing!

He wants to play good football and he wants to WIN, so as you say this summer is hugely important and he will likely be ruthless.

He wanted/wants to win this season but given all the circumstances it’s not going to be possible so he’ll now do all he can to put us in the best position to win next season!

From him having assessed the squad for nearly a full season now I’d say this is roughly how he sees it:

GK:
Vicario

1st choice keeper
Forster

- ideally wants to replace with younger and better suited option but keep for 1 more year if needed
Austin

keep as HG option

RB:
Porro

1st choice RB
Royal

ok as squad player but ideally replace with someone more suited to Ange’s style of play

CB:
Romero

1st choice CB
VDV

1st choice CB
Dragusin

strong 3rd choice rotation
4th CB - NEED TO SIGN ONE THIS SUMMER

LB:
Udogie

1st choice LB
Davies

ideally replace with someone younger who better suits the system but can keep for 1 more year if needed
Sess

Sell. Too injury prone

CM:
Bissouma

1st choice DM
Bentancur

Joint 1st choice CM with Biss
Sarr

near enough 1st choice CM
Maddison

1st choice n.o 10
PEH

/

ok as a squad option but likely sell to raise funds and as he isn’t an ideal fit
GLC

/

could keep as back-up to Maddison but GLC himself might push for a move and Ange might use Kulu as back-up in this n.o10 role
Skipp

/

not good enough but homegrown option we might keep for HG squad purposes otherwise would sell as not in Ange’s plans

RW:
Johnson

1st choice RW currently
Kulu

likely keep but need to sign a better RW than Kulu and likely move Kulu to a squad n.o10 option

LW:
Werner

sign on a perm
Solomon

likely keep as only signed last summer and looked on when he was fit
Gil

sell, not good enough

ST:
Son

captain, but ideally sign a striker and move son back to LW, especially against low blocks
Richy

/

keep as back/up ST option or cash in and replace with someone more suitable
Veliz

keep but loan out again depending on his development?

I’ve probably missed someone but his is where I think Ange’s head is at with the squad. I’d say in summer he’d be looking for the following signings in order to make the squad robust enough to challenge for Europe and PL & Cups:
1. ST *and sell Richy?*
2. LW/RW *top class one who can ideally play on both sides and cross and score goals and create
3. Werner on a perm
4. 4th CB
5. CM to replace PEH/Skipp
Optional extras:
6. AM to replace GLC if he goes as imo Kulu isn’t sufficient back-up to Maddison, I also hope GLC stays

7. Sell Royal and buy a more suitable replacement
8. Sell Davies and buy a more suitable replacement
9. Sell/release Forster and buy a more suitable replacement

Also love how on Sky they said to Ange you could effect the title race because you have to play them all in your remaining games and he said “I couldn’t care less about who wins the title, I just want to focus on our improvement and get us in the title race”

Love how he is repeatedly saying he doesn’t care about 4th and how he keeps getting spiky with the journos for writing us out the title race whilst suggesting man.u are our rivals for 4th with the same points gap difference. I know he knows it’s extremely unlikely we’d win the title this season like 0.1% chance but I love his attitude basically saying that is what I’m always aiming for so until it’s mathematically no longer possible we are still in it, that and saying he doesn’t care about 4th is a culture shift our club has needed for a long long time under Levy.

fishhhandaricecake · Apr 7, 2024

rossdapep said:
T

The plan B is too increase the intensity.

I said this before but he hasn't been hooking players or dropping players readily because that's an easy way to lose the group.

Piss enough of them off and you can't expect them to play well when you end up having to go back to them.

Jose did that.

He is now starting to sub players and drop them as we are getting close to the end of the season so it can be taken as a little fire up the arses - "Look I want you here but I want to challenge next season and if you can't get back to that level, next season will be diffrent"

Ange won't even tell them that. They need to get the message.

Ultimately, the objective will be for the starting 11 to play with intensity for 60 and then rotation comes in and ensures we finish strong.

That's plan A and B.

Unfortunately, we are having spells and then clearly drop off and then have to make changes to recover it.

We should not compromise our way of playing because some players lose it, it needs drilling in or they need replacing

Such a good post

you totally get it in terms of how and why Ange is managing the team like he is. It’s all about the long term trying to win but balancing that against trying to win every game now also.

Rout-Ledge · Apr 7, 2024

What I like about Ange’s attitude when compared to someone like Conte is that when he says things like ‘I’m not interested in top 4, we need to be challenging’ the implication is that we can and will challenge, and everyone in the club (including him) is responsible for rising to that challenge. Conte’s implication was more ‘I am better than top 4 and the club needs to rise to my level or I’m off’.

Tezza1978 · Apr 8, 2024

fishhhandaricecake said:
Great post and spot on mate.

This season has been so challenging and Ange has stayed positive and ambitious throughout, it’s been so refreshing!

He wants to play good football and he wants to WIN, so as you say this summer is hugely important and he will likely be ruthless.

He wanted/wants to win this season but given all the circumstances it’s not going to be possible so he’ll now do all he can to put us in the best position to win next season!

From him having assessed the squad for nearly a full season now I’d say this is roughly how he sees it:

GK:
Vicario 1st choice keeper
Forster - ideally wants to replace with younger and better suited option but keep for 1 more year if needed
Austin keep as HG option

RB:
Porro 1st choice RB
Royal ok as squad player but ideally replace with someone more suited to Ange’s style of play

CB:
Romero 1st choice CB
VDV 1st choice CB
Dragusin strong 3rd choice rotation
4th CB - NEED TO SIGN ONE THIS SUMMER

LB:
Udogie 1st choice LB
Davies ideally replace with someone younger who better suits the system but can keep for 1 more year if needed
Sess Sell. Too injury prone

CM:
Bissouma 1st choice DM
Bentancur Joint 1st choice CM with Biss
Sarr near enough 1st choice CM
Maddison 1st choice n.o 10
PEH / ok as a squad option but likely sell to raise funds and as he isn’t an ideal fit
GLC / could keep as back-up to Maddison but GLC himself might push for a move and Ange might use Kulu as back-up in this n.o10 role
Skipp / not good enough but homegrown option we might keep for HG squad purposes otherwise would sell as not in Ange’s plans

RW:
Johnson 1st choice RW currently
Kulu likely keep but need to sign a better RW than Kulu and likely move Kulu to a squad n.o10 option

LW:
Werner sign on a perm
Solomon likely keep as only signed last summer and looked on when he was fit
Gil sell, not good enough

ST:
Son captain, but ideally sign a striker and move son back to LW, especially against low blocks
Richy / keep as back/up ST option or cash in and replace with someone more suitable
Veliz keep but loan out again depending on his development?

I’ve probably missed someone but his is where I think Ange’s head is at with the squad. I’d say in summer he’d be looking for the following signings in order to make the squad robust enough to challenge for Europe and PL & Cups:
1. ST *and sell Richy?*
2. LW/RW *top class one who can ideally play on both sides and cross and score goals and create
3. Werner on a perm
4. 4th CB
5. CM to replace PEH/Skipp
Optional extras:
6. AM to replace GLC if he goes as imo Kulu isn’t sufficient back-up to Maddison, I also hope GLC stays
7. Sell Royal and buy a more suitable replacement
8. Sell Davies and buy a more suitable replacement
9. Sell/release Forster and buy a more suitable replacement

Also love how on Sky they said to Ange you could effect the title race because you have to play them all in your remaining games and he said “I couldn’t care less about who wins the title, I just want to focus on our improvement and get us in the title race”

Love how he is repeatedly saying he doesn’t care about 4th and how he keeps getting spiky with the journos for writing us out the title race whilst suggesting man.u are our rivals for 4th with the same points gap difference. I know he knows it’s extremely unlikely we’d win the title this season like 0.1% chance but I love his attitude basically saying that is what I’m always aiming for so until it’s mathematically no longer possible we are still in it, that and saying he doesn’t care about 4th is a culture shift our club has needed for a long long time under Levy.

Really good post! Agree with 90% of this. My only two differences would be as below:

In transfer priorities I would swap priority 1 to priority 3 . So top class LW/RW as no 1, Werner on a Perm no 2, an additional striker 3 (NOT selling Richy he needs competition not replacing) then 4th CB as 4
And then in terms of first choice players I don/t think we should sell Richy at all. Loan Veliz clearly....then sign a young but more experienced than Veliz striker option to compete with him . We can easily raise enough money for this through sales. Considering his injuries/MH challenges I think Richy has done well and needs another season for sure.

Johnny J · Apr 8, 2024

fishhhandaricecake said:
Great post and spot on mate.

This season has been so challenging and Ange has stayed positive and ambitious throughout, it’s been so refreshing!

He wants to play good football and he wants to WIN, so as you say this summer is hugely important and he will likely be ruthless.

He wanted/wants to win this season but given all the circumstances it’s not going to be possible so he’ll now do all he can to put us in the best position to win next season!

From him having assessed the squad for nearly a full season now I’d say this is roughly how he sees it:

GK:
Vicario 1st choice keeper
Forster - ideally wants to replace with younger and better suited option but keep for 1 more year if needed
Austin keep as HG option

RB:
Porro 1st choice RB
Royal ok as squad player but ideally replace with someone more suited to Ange’s style of play

CB:
Romero 1st choice CB
VDV 1st choice CB
Dragusin strong 3rd choice rotation
4th CB - NEED TO SIGN ONE THIS SUMMER

LB:
Udogie 1st choice LB
Davies ideally replace with someone younger who better suits the system but can keep for 1 more year if needed
Sess Sell. Too injury prone

CM:
Bissouma 1st choice DM
Bentancur Joint 1st choice CM with Biss
Sarr near enough 1st choice CM
Maddison 1st choice n.o 10
PEH / ok as a squad option but likely sell to raise funds and as he isn’t an ideal fit
GLC / could keep as back-up to Maddison but GLC himself might push for a move and Ange might use Kulu as back-up in this n.o10 role
Skipp / not good enough but homegrown option we might keep for HG squad purposes otherwise would sell as not in Ange’s plans

RW:
Johnson 1st choice RW currently
Kulu likely keep but need to sign a better RW than Kulu and likely move Kulu to a squad n.o10 option

LW:
Werner sign on a perm
Solomon likely keep as only signed last summer and looked on when he was fit
Gil sell, not good enough

ST:
Son captain, but ideally sign a striker and move son back to LW, especially against low blocks
Richy / keep as back/up ST option or cash in and replace with someone more suitable
Veliz keep but loan out again depending on his development?

I’ve probably missed someone but his is where I think Ange’s head is at with the squad. I’d say in summer he’d be looking for the following signings in order to make the squad robust enough to challenge for Europe and PL & Cups:
1. ST *and sell Richy?*
2. LW/RW *top class one who can ideally play on both sides and cross and score goals and create
3. Werner on a perm
4. 4th CB
5. CM to replace PEH/Skipp
Optional extras:
6. AM to replace GLC if he goes as imo Kulu isn’t sufficient back-up to Maddison, I also hope GLC stays
7. Sell Royal and buy a more suitable replacement
8. Sell Davies and buy a more suitable replacement
9. Sell/release Forster and buy a more suitable replacement

Also love how on Sky they said to Ange you could effect the title race because you have to play them all in your remaining games and he said “I couldn’t care less about who wins the title, I just want to focus on our improvement and get us in the title race”

Love how he is repeatedly saying he doesn’t care about 4th and how he keeps getting spiky with the journos for writing us out the title race whilst suggesting man.u are our rivals for 4th with the same points gap difference. I know he knows it’s extremely unlikely we’d win the title this season like 0.1% chance but I love his attitude basically saying that is what I’m always aiming for so until it’s mathematically no longer possible we are still in it, that and saying he doesn’t care about 4th is a culture shift our club has needed for a long long time under Levy.

Good post. I wonder if Bergvall will be a contender for the match day squad. I suspect he will.

rossdapep · Apr 8, 2024

fishhhandaricecake said:
Such a good post you totally get it in terms of how and why Ange is managing the team like he is. It’s all about the long term trying to win but balancing that against trying to win every game now also.

We just need to be patient mate.

Very easy to get caught up in what other things are happening but we have to remember we are still early in his tenure and coaching a team is a continuous evolution AND devolution.

Bissouma, Maddison, etc - we thought we had our fixed players for these roles.

It doesn't work like that does it?

Players get comfortable, have a honeymoon period or are too 'up' and 'down' Or they simply can't manage the demands over a season.

Hate the example but Arteta had loads of followers and people believing in him, basically on not much other than he was supposed to be a 'genius' coach.

They stuck through all the shit and didn't stop believing.

You have to. This club will not be successful if we don't afford time and ride out the bumps.

A club like ours won't have success if we keep switching up the coach or panic whenever we hit a bad run.

spurs9 · Apr 8, 2024

fishhhandaricecake said:
Great post and spot on mate.

This season has been so challenging and Ange has stayed positive and ambitious throughout, it’s been so refreshing!

He wants to play good football and he wants to WIN, so as you say this summer is hugely important and he will likely be ruthless.

He wanted/wants to win this season but given all the circumstances it’s not going to be possible so he’ll now do all he can to put us in the best position to win next season!

From him having assessed the squad for nearly a full season now I’d say this is roughly how he sees it:

GK:
Vicario 1st choice keeper
Forster - ideally wants to replace with younger and better suited option but keep for 1 more year if needed
Austin keep as HG option

RB:
Porro 1st choice RB
Royal ok as squad player but ideally replace with someone more suited to Ange’s style of play

CB:
Romero 1st choice CB
VDV 1st choice CB
Dragusin strong 3rd choice rotation
4th CB - NEED TO SIGN ONE THIS SUMMER

LB:
Udogie 1st choice LB
Davies ideally replace with someone younger who better suits the system but can keep for 1 more year if needed
Sess Sell. Too injury prone

CM:
Bissouma 1st choice DM
Bentancur Joint 1st choice CM with Biss
Sarr near enough 1st choice CM
Maddison 1st choice n.o 10
PEH / ok as a squad option but likely sell to raise funds and as he isn’t an ideal fit
GLC / could keep as back-up to Maddison but GLC himself might push for a move and Ange might use Kulu as back-up in this n.o10 role
Skipp / not good enough but homegrown option we might keep for HG squad purposes otherwise would sell as not in Ange’s plans

RW:
Johnson 1st choice RW currently
Kulu likely keep but need to sign a better RW than Kulu and likely move Kulu to a squad n.o10 option

LW:
Werner sign on a perm
Solomon likely keep as only signed last summer and looked on when he was fit
Gil sell, not good enough

ST:
Son captain, but ideally sign a striker and move son back to LW, especially against low blocks
Richy / keep as back/up ST option or cash in and replace with someone more suitable
Veliz keep but loan out again depending on his development?

I’ve probably missed someone but his is where I think Ange’s head is at with the squad. I’d say in summer he’d be looking for the following signings in order to make the squad robust enough to challenge for Europe and PL & Cups:
1. ST *and sell Richy?*
2. LW/RW *top class one who can ideally play on both sides and cross and score goals and create
3. Werner on a perm
4. 4th CB
5. CM to replace PEH/Skipp
Optional extras:
6. AM to replace GLC if he goes as imo Kulu isn’t sufficient back-up to Maddison, I also hope GLC stays
7. Sell Royal and buy a more suitable replacement
8. Sell Davies and buy a more suitable replacement
9. Sell/release Forster and buy a more suitable replacement

Also love how on Sky they said to Ange you could effect the title race because you have to play them all in your remaining games and he said “I couldn’t care less about who wins the title, I just want to focus on our improvement and get us in the title race”

Love how he is repeatedly saying he doesn’t care about 4th and how he keeps getting spiky with the journos for writing us out the title race whilst suggesting man.u are our rivals for 4th with the same points gap difference. I know he knows it’s extremely unlikely we’d win the title this season like 0.1% chance but I love his attitude basically saying that is what I’m always aiming for so until it’s mathematically no longer possible we are still in it, that and saying he doesn’t care about 4th is a culture shift our club has needed for a long long time under Levy.

Davies for 4th choice CB and bring in a new LB.

I don't think people realise what a rare skill Davies has in being able to come in, having not played in a while, and play as reliable as he does straight away, even if his skillset doesn't quite suit the role. Most defenders take quite a few games to get up to speed.

The fact that he is such a great character to have in the dressing room, pretty much makes him the ideal 4th choice CB IMO. We have 3 top young CBs coming through too, so we can send them out on loan and see if there up to scratch when Davies is no longer up to it.

spurs9 · Apr 8, 2024

SUIYHA said:
"Ange doesn't have a plan B"

But yet again - a second half turnaround with inspired subs in a game to win a game we were struggling in.

I'd argue that plan B seems to be better than plan A

I'm pretty sure Ange has said himself that Plan B is to do Plan A better.

RuskyM · Apr 8, 2024

SUIYHA said:
"Ange doesn't have a plan B"

But yet again - a second half turnaround with inspired subs in a game to win a game we were struggling in.

I'd argue that plan B seems to be better than plan A

At this point I think "he has no Plan B" is just lazy criticism: the same as the "the high line's naive, teams could score five or six" despite the fact that that literally has not happened this season.

fishhhandaricecake · Apr 8, 2024

Tezza1978 said:
Really good post! Agree with 90% of this. My only two differences would be as below:

In transfer priorities I would swap priority 1 to priority 3 . So top class LW/RW as no 1, Werner on a Perm no 2, an additional striker 3 (NOT selling Richy he needs competition not replacing) then 4th CB as 4
And then in terms of first choice players I don/t think we should sell Richy at all. Loan Veliz clearly....then sign a young but more experienced than Veliz striker option to compete with him . We can easily raise enough money for this through sales. Considering his injuries/MH challenges I think Richy has done well and needs another season for sure.

Thanks mate and I'm 50/50 on Richy so your plan is equally as good imo, will be interesting to see how the summer plays out.

fishhhandaricecake · Apr 8, 2024

Ange in the Sky Sports interview saying he still hopes we will be in the title race, that type of attitude remind you of someone...

"It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. At Spurs we set our sights very high, so that even failure will have in it an echo of glory."

SirHarryHotspur · Apr 8, 2024

Ange's style of football this season has certainly changed our goal scoring by spreading goal scoring responsibility throughout the squad and not just relying on a couple of players. Last season Harry scored around 44% of our goals, so far this season our top scorer Sonny has around 25% , a lot of the squad chipping in just like yesterday.

Gassin's finest · Apr 8, 2024

SirHarryHotspur said:
Ange's style of football this season has certainly changed our goal scoring by spreading goal scoring responsibility throughout the squad and not just relying on a couple of players. Last season Harry scored around 44% of our goals, so far this season our top scorer Sonny has around 25% , a lot of the squad chipping in just like yesterday.

Isn't that more because he just scores so fucking many of them? God its such a shame we never got our greatest ever goalscorer to play in the most progressive system we've had in decades.

SirHarryHotspur · Apr 8, 2024

Gassin's finest said:
Isn't that more because he just scores so fucking many of them? God its such a shame we never got our greatest ever goalscorer to play in the most progressive system we've had in decades.

That's true, our best recent season for attacking football was 2016/17 when we scored 86 goals, not sure how many own goals in that total, Harry got 29 so around +30% but then we also had Deli and Eriksen contributing , Ange has got us back to those sort of levels attack wise but defensively not as good , improve on defence next season and who knows.

Monkey boy · Apr 8, 2024

SirHarryHotspur said:
That's true, our best recent season for attacking football was 2016/17 when we scored 86 goals, not sure how many own goals in that total, Harry got 29 so around +30% but then we also had Deli and Eriksen contributing , Ange has got us back to those sort of levels attack wise but defensively not as good , improve on defence next season and who knows.

I’ve been pondering on the defence and how to improve it. I think if you asked all of us you’d say that they wouldn’t swap any of our back 4 players for any other player outside of the top 3 teams and definitely not the goalkeeper for anyone yet we still concede so many rubbish goals and loads of glorious chances. Is it the system that’s the problem or the players not implementing the system? Either way we can’t expect to achieve anything unless we half the number of goals we are currently conceding.

SirHarryHotspur · Apr 8, 2024

Monkey boy said:
I’ve been pondering on the defence and how to improve it. I think if you asked all of us you’d say that they wouldn’t swap any of our back 4 players for any other player outside of the top 3 teams and definitely not the goalkeeper for anyone yet we still concede so many rubbish goals and loads of glorious chances. Is it the system that’s the problem or the players not implementing the system? Either way we can’t expect to achieve anything unless we half the number of goals we are currently conceding.

Just for comparison , goals conceded 2016/17 season was 26 , goals scored 86 so a goal difference of 60 . We have conceded some rubbish goals this season , the three in two games against West Ham for start, so that's five extra points we should have had.

Blake Griffin · Apr 8, 2024

fishhhandaricecake said:
CM:
Bissouma 1st choice DM

not at this rate he won't be.

Gassin's finest · Apr 8, 2024

Blake Griffin said:
not at this rate he won't be.

I have a gut feeling that we'll be looking to move him on in the summer.

Forums

What's new

Matches

Sportsbook

Members

Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Not the Kiwi you need but the one you deserve

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

C'est diabolique

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

C'est diabolique

Similar threads