Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

Trix · Jan 17, 2023

carpediem991 said:
Yeah agree and obviously the question about what to do now is very tricky. On paper it would look horrible to sack three managers, two serial winners, in the middle of the season in a row, but what you got as an alternative?

That can only be really back Conte. Make him happy and stay at least another year. But right now i could also see this is leading to nothing but throwing out money as I miss a solid foundation to build on to be soon challengers. Here i am not sure i have enough believe in Conte due to what I see on the pitch week in week out.

You could now get two expensive Conte players and another few in the summer then he fucks off and whats next? Whatever you do Conte is not likely to patiently build and develop our lot and there is every risk that some core players already don't buy into his philosophie anymore and who could blame them?
Take away the goals we scored after set pieces and last minute attacks.... there is so few resulting out of Contes system and we look clueless how to break down teams.

Personally i would tend to bite the bullet now and have a close look at Tuchel. If he wants to commit for three years plus and set up a more positive style, I would opt for him.

I know another restart would be super depressing and can understand people who are rather on the full Conte wagon but its not my cup of tea. I want to feel a bit more passion and excitement watching my Spurs, thats what lead me to them...

What you do is identify early, other managers who can play a system with those players you've bought. It's what every well run club that's not an Elite club does. That right there is the problem fans thinking that every manager change requires a whole new squad rebuild, that's the position Enic have brought us to. I keep seeing posts saying we should appoint this manager or that manager because look at what they are doing at Brighton for example, but completely missing the point that that manager has gone into a side already kitted out for them. What we do is we buy all the ingredients for fine French cuisine then bring in an Michelin starred chef who cooks Asian food. We then start to bring in the right ingredients for him and replace him with a Mexican chef who now has a pantry full of Truffles and Bok Choi. We need to decide what we want and then bring in managers who know how to work with the ingredients at their disposal. There is a reason it took Pep, Klopp, hell even Atreta 2-3 years to achieve anything of note because they had to get the right players in first.

We need to back a horse and bloody stick with it regardless of whether or not it's painless at times, because this chop change shit has proved time and again to be completely fruitless. Until we do that we'll always struggle because we will never have the wealth of talent Chelsea did when the kept changing things up.

Spursfan1414 · Jan 17, 2023

djhotspur said:
No but we blame levy for not providing a rwb that suits and going out his way to waste money on spence.
No Emerson hasn’t worked out but Doherty hasn’t been fit and Spence as has been explained countless times isn’t the messiah you think he is, given his stats in the championships are actually poor.

So do something else. You don't have a player for specialist position? Change the system.

Do what Arsenal and Man City do and play a CB at RB or LB and get your 3 at the back that way. Or change formation and do something else.

Not having a player is not an excuse to continue to play the same system that doesn't work for months with no alterations.

Ghost Hardware · Jan 17, 2023

Japhet said:
Do you really think Levy will get away with 'minimum flak' if he bails out on Conte Trix? I reckon he'll get crucified personally. It might not affect his position at the club but he'll be made bloody uncomfortable for a very long time if he screws this up, both in the media and at games.

What if we loose against City twice and then he hires Poch? I think a lot of fans will forget about everything and enjoy Poch being back.

Cel · Jan 17, 2023

djhotspur said:
Haha Like conte then now Doherty is fit? Because then it was a manager who’d play 3 5 2 then that got fully exposed by United given the wrong wing backs, I guess now the big save for the club is a back 4 which suited the other managers soooo well

4 at the back does work quite well for every club in the top 4, however....so it's not a crazy call - it's extremely successful elsewhere this year

glacierSpurs · Jan 17, 2023

0-Tibsy-0 said:
Shots fired.

Which is why I said Levy has always created such situations for all our managers over the years, letting them alone fending for all these nonsense, setting them up to fail, all to make up like every problems are the managers' but never the management. Is both sad and embarrassing.

Spursfan1414 · Jan 17, 2023

Albertbarich said:
That's not the point though is it?

He took from April right up until the season was about to start to find Nuno, it was farcical and that led him to be forced to get Conte because it was toxic.

He has shown when it comes to football he has no plan, no philosophy and no idea what his talking about so why would you want him choosing the next manager?

Also he has also shown he constantly doesn't back them to the point that they leave.

Were like a managerial graveyard

That took place at the same time he was trying to recruit a DoF. We have Paratici now and I'm happy with the recruitment strategy he's brought in.

And it is the point. If we look very likely to sign someone I think is a big upgrade on Conte, I don't care that much about how much luck was involved.

Trix · Jan 17, 2023

Spursfan1414 said:
Maybe, but either Conte is a serious problem or he's not.

If he's not, what are you moaning at Levy for (on this specifically)?

If he is, what's so controversial about saying get rid because any of the likely alternatives, Poch, Tuchel etc are a better fit?

A better fit for what? Not being backed with what they need? There is no good fit for this full stop.

only1waddle · Jan 17, 2023

The best thing for this club with a prudent chairman, a normal prudent chairman, would be the model of players bought for formation and club philosophy and you hire a manger to coach, but because Levy doesn't trust anybody to put that plan in place and loves getting a deal in the market, without any squad building experience, it costs more in the long run due so such a scattergun approach.
I had to type this out, just to hammer home to myself how much of a fucking idiot he actually is.

Bluto Blutarsky · Jan 17, 2023

Trix said:
What you do is identify early, other managers who can play a system with those players you've bought. It's what every well run club that's not an Elite club does. That right there is the problem fans thinking that every manager change requires a whole new squad rebuild, that's the position Enic have brought us to. I keep seeing posts saying we should appoint this manager or that manager because look at what they are doing at Brighton for example, but completely missing the point that that manager has gone into a side already kitted out for them. What we do is we buy all the ingredients for fine French cuisine then bring in an Michelin starred chef who cooks Asian food. We then start to bring in the right ingredients for him and replace him with a Mexican chef who now has a pantry full of Truffles and Bok Choi. We need to decide what we want and then bring in managers who know how to work with the ingredients at their disposal. There is a reason it took Pep, Klopp, hell even Atreta 2-3 years to achieve anything of note because they had to get the right players in first.

We need to back a horse and bloody stick with it regardless of whether or not it's painless at times, because this chop change shit has proved time and again to be completely fruitless. Until we do that we'll always struggle because we will never have the wealth of talent Chelsea did when the kept changing things up.

-Afri-Coy- · Jan 17, 2023

Spursfan1414 said:
Lol, even Daniel Levy will have a more sophisticated way of figuring out whether a coach is better fit for us than counting the trophies up on his hand.

Do I need to reel off a list of players with more trophies than Kane?

I was just pointing out that you were saying those names with your chest out as if it's an objective fact that they are better than Conte. They're not.

"Better fit for us" I asked earlier what does this mean?

How can you fit into a club that has Zero Identity and barely any quality to suit that identity?

I think what you mean is better fit for what YOU want to see on the pitch. And that's perfectly fine. I think we want to see the same thing at the end of the day.

I think we had glimpses under Conte last season of what he can really do.

I still stand by my thoughts that the players need to change FIRST before the manager.

We don't have passers. We have zero creativity. We have barely any pressing ability, or the ability to beat the press in offence. We can't defend set pieces properly. We leak school boy goals all the time. We can't expect a squad with the 3rd highest average age to run like a young squad can all game (Arsenal).

Even if we had Klopp he would be here for 12 months and want to ship out 50-70% of the squad. It's that bad.

Trix · Jan 17, 2023

Spursfan1414 said:
If names like Nuno were being touted around again then I'd agree. But the names being touted are ones like Poch and Tuchel who I think are significant upgrades.

And that's what you are pinning your hopes on? Remember when Nuno came in and all the names that were being touted around.....

FOR 6 BLOODY MONTHS

Spursfan1414 · Jan 17, 2023

Trix said:
A better fit for what? Not being backed with what they need? There is no good fit for this full stop.

He's a terrible fit in so many ways.

His brand of football is pretty negative, that's not what our fans want to see.

He plays 3 at the back with specialist wingbacks, which means that almost any successor would need to revamp the squad after him regardless of his success.

He doesn't want to develop young players, which either way we are going to have to do some of because we are not Man City.

He's never stayed at a club longer than 3 seasons.

His system is so rigid that he can't adapt at all to missing even one transfer target.

How many more reasons do you need? As for backing, it's not a binary thing. We've brought in Bissouma, Peresic, Deki, Bentancur and Richarlison. That's half a first team XI, with Kane, Son and Romero on top. Save your breath, "backing" is 0 excuse for the level that Conte has us playing at right now.

sundanceyid10 · Jan 17, 2023

Ghost Hardware said:
What if we loose against City twice and then he hires Poch? I think a lot of fans will forget about everything and enjoy Poch being back.

And the circle will be complete, after sacking Poch, Levy will have ….

….hired Mourinho the dinosaur, then sacked him, put Ryan Mason in charge of a cup final. Then gone through one of Levy’s in depth analysis of what the club needs and decided the solution was Nuno ?, appointed him, sacked him a few months later, hired Conte, sacked Conte and then back to Poch.

And while pulling of that master class of ineptitude, he wasted some of the best years of maybe the best striker we have had since Jimmy Greaves.

Absolute total incompetence, F****** zero chance of winning anything with a moron like that running the show.

SA_Spurs · Jan 17, 2023

Spursfan1414 said:
What do you mean by stitch up? It's a fact he keeps playing Emerson at RWB. It's a fact that it hasn't worked for months. It's a fact that he could do something else if he wanted to.

The players aren't playing deliberately incompetently, they're playing in a tactical system that gets the worst out of them, not the best. What part of what I've said do you disagree with? You seriously blame Levy for how Emerson is performing more than Conte?

Because that's mental.

He's picked Emerson because he's our best defensive WB and that data proves that in the most recent games where emerson is not playing. Also, he's picked Emerson because Doherty was injured and only just came back in last 3-4 games. You can go on all you want about Spence - but Conte clearly doesn't pick him based on what he's seen on the training pitch.

The coach decides what tactical system to play. yes it's based on personnel but also, it's based on what he knows best how to succeed with and to win with. He's asked for players that fit that profile but is not given that. Clearly when spurs appointed Conte they didn't say, you can coach here with the limitation that our players can't play a 3-4-3 system. They knew what system he favoured because this particular manager (more than any other) is married to his system. So then why hire him if you don't back him? I don't blame DL for Emerson's showing on the pitch but I do blame him for hiring Conte and then cutting him at the knees with very limited support.

You know what's mental? its how people cannot correlate the damage done by DL to the footballing side of spurs ...we've had a number of world class players - bale, modric, kane, vertongen, toby, Dembele, VdV, Keane, etc. (and coaches) that wasted their time playing here because there is no ambition in the board or with DL - it's all about making money (to dare is truly too dear).

roy@SC · Jan 17, 2023

Spursfan1414 said:
If names like Nuno were being touted around again then I'd agree. But the names being touted are ones like Poch and Tuchel who I think are significant upgrades.

Poch has already fallen out with levy once. Tuchel has already done pretty much exactly what Conte did at Chelsea. Genuine question, How can you possibly expect different outcomes than the obvious if either comes in now and has to deal with levy?

Trix · Jan 17, 2023

roy@SC said:
Poch has already fallen out with levy once. Tuchel has already done pretty much exactly what Conte did at Chelsea. Genuine question, How can you possibly expect different outcomes than the obvious if either comes in now and has to deal with levy?

It's short termism once again simple as that.

Spursfan1414 · Jan 17, 2023

-Afri-Coy- said:
I was just pointing out that you were saying those names with your chest out as if it's an objective fact that they are better than Conte. They're not.

"Better fit for us" I asked earlier what does this mean?

How can you fit into a club that has Zero Identity and barely any quality to suit that identity?

I think what you mean is better fit for what YOU want to see on the pitch. And that's perfectly fine. I think we want to see the same thing at the end of the day.

I think we had glimpses under Conte last season of what he can really do.

I still stand by my thoughts that the players need to change FIRST before the manager.

We don't have passers. We have zero creativity. We have barely any pressing ability, or the ability to beat the press in offence. We can't defend set pieces properly. We leak school boy goals all the time. We can't expect a squad with the 3rd highest average age to run like a young squad can all game (Arsenal).

Even if we had Klopp he would be here for 12 months and want to ship out 50-70% of the squad. It's that bad.

Where did I say "This is an objective fact"? This is forum, unless otherwise stated it's obviously opinion.

I laid out why the others are better fit above.

Literally all the problems you identify are at least partly Conte's fault. Shipped off all players with passing ability, didn't want Eriksen or Maddison. He doesn't coach us to press to begin with and he's the one who wants to sign older, experienced players. We leak school boy goals because his system surrenders control of the midfield every game until opponents are 2-0 up and sit back in the 2nd half.

carpediem1906 · Jan 17, 2023

Hakkz said:
Supporters can impact their footprint by not paying Levy's prices and staying at home.

the ONLY way Levy will listen is when 0 fans turn up in protest with everyone crowding outside the stadium chanting “Antonio.. Antonio..” while we win 4-0

likelihood of this happening tho?

RobjDerby · Jan 17, 2023

Trix said:
And that's what you are pinning your hopes on? Remember when Nuno came in and all the names that were being touted around.....

FOR 6 BLOODY MONTHS

21 years and people still think a new Manager is the answer.

Mourinho was supposed to be his last throw of the dice after neglecting Poch. Then we had the most public farce , ending appointing Nuno.
Now suddenly Conte isn’t the right fit, he’s wrong….

How many more alarm bells need to ring?

Wadec · Jan 17, 2023

Ghost Hardware said:
What if we loose against City twice and then he hires Poch? I think a lot of fans will forget about everything and enjoy Poch being back.

I agree with this to an extent. However, I do think more eyes have been opened. Whilst Poch will bring a feel good factor back there will still be a large section of the fanbase who are completely disengaged with Levy and his leadership. Even a large portion of those who will be delighted Poch is back will still be unhappy with Levy overall.

Ironically if we hadn't appointed Jose and Conte and had hired 'project' managers that hadn't worked out Levy would be a little more safe from scrutiny. But you can't hire two winners and have them both fail unless you have gone above and beyond to back them.

I don't think Levy will walk or anything like thaylt but I think the tide has turned and there will always be a Levy out section amongst the fanbase. Probably always has been there but the numbers will be far greater now.

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