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The Y Word

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Harrier

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2021
1,776
5,203
Spurslove said:
Is there any actual proof that Jewish Spurs fans are offended by it and want it to stop?

In my head, I have a scenario in which a Nazi officer confronts a crowd of maybe 1,000 people and demands that all the Jews in the crowd take a step forward, and everyone steps forward as a sign of solidarity.

That's what reclaiming an offensive word means to me. Most of the people who sing it aren't even Jewish and they sing it proudly as a form of self identification. It's a sign of strength, not weakness and if anyone doesn't understand our right to self-identify ourselves this way, they should educate themselves, whether they're Jewish or otherwise.

How many times have we got to discuss this FFS. Are we really in such a state that we're considering banning a 3-letter word being spoken or sung?

Context is everything in this and I'm only sorry that so many people have no idea what that means. There's no law which says you must or mustn't sing it, it's entirely up to personal choice and that's good enough for me.

None of us has a crystal ball and maybe over time, it will phase itself out naturally but right now, as a Jewish Spurs fan, I'm completely OK with it.

.
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This is the essence of the whole thing.

Very telling that one of the Jewish lads in the video I posted, said that his Gran was offended by it until she watched one of the videos about how it become used by the Spurs fans and then she completely changed her outlook saying ‘Ah I get it now!’.
 
0-Tibsy-0

0-Tibsy-0

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
11,427
44,393
Archibald&Crooks said:
I've sung the songs for years. But a while ago now I asked myself, will not singing songs with the word in it mean I enjoy games any less. Of course not. What do I gain from carrying on singing it? Fuck all. Am I bothered about having the right to do it? Not in the slightest. I just don't see the point in it any more, times are changing.

I just think maybe it's time now. So stopping is where i'm at with it.
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Picking up on one point, my enjoyment (which is certainly not the prevailing issue here!); - Singing songs and the atmosphere at the ground is one of my key factors for enjoyment - one reason that I am not so regular at the Lane now is because the atmosphere is just crap - there seems to be little tribalism or unity (I guess comes from football becoming more and more sanitised for business and TV reasons).

So it would stop me enjoying the game as much - it would erase what I believe to be the the proudest display of unity with our Jewish history and history of the fight against anti Semitism - it would, again, be a 'victory' for those who don't believe that language evolves as well as those not understanding, or contemplating, context.
 
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0-Tibsy-0

0-Tibsy-0

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
11,427
44,393
Harrier said:
This is the essence of the whole thing.

Very telling that one of the Jewish lads in the video I posted, said that his Gran was offended by it until she watched one of the videos about how it become used by the Spurs fans and then she completely changed her outlook saying ‘Ah I get it now!’.
Click to expand...

understanding context is important?

Who knew..
 
0-Tibsy-0

0-Tibsy-0

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
11,427
44,393
dontcallme said:
Do they call themselves the Yids? Genuine question.
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some call themselves the 'Super Jews'.

And reference being 'Jews' in songs. Despite there probably being an even smaller part of their fan base identifying as Jewish (don't know this as fact...).

There is a very similar history to why the identity was adopted and solidarity with the Jewish community taken though.

So, no - they don't use the word Yid. But are or have been vocal about their Jewish connection.
 
A

arthurgrimsdell

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2004
843
826
Harrier said:


Interesting video from these guys, who are Jewish Spurs fans.
Click to expand...

Ther view can be encapsulated in: "We're Yids and we're proud of it", which might form the basis of a unique Spurs song to the tune of the Pet Shop Boys' Go West.

The really sad thing about their comments to me was their difficulty when presented with the argument that if anyone is offended by something it has to be banned, which is nonsensical drivel. I'm offended by the existence of Arsenal, Chelsea and West Ham as football clubs. I wouldn't suggest that their existence should be terminated because I'm offended.
The whole idea is puerile, and the banning of the use of words, any words, constitutes evil fascism.
If something said is demonstrably wrong, then it should be easy to show it in reasoned debate; then those who wish to carry on doing it should be free to do so in the knowledge that they are held in contempt by some or many for doing so. That's the adult way.
The only exclusions I can accept to this are the use of language to incite violence, or to tell lies about someone or a group (defamation), and this does not include something that might offend someone to the extent that they perpetrate the violence in retaliation. As an example: "All Jews/LBGT+-XQ..../BAME etc are vile", however distasteful and stupid, should be allowable as freedom of speech. "All Jews/LBGT+-XQ..../BAME etc should be exterminated/ beaten up should be totally unacceptable.
This is the way it was half a century ago when we lived in a far more adult age. Sadly that culture has been "progressively" corrupted and infantilised since.
Incidentally, notwithstanding my having watched and supported Spurs avidly since the 1950's it has never been part of my culture to sing and chant with others. My support has been individual, together with tens of thousands of other like-minded individuals at the ground. I often find the songs and chants from some fans distasteful and puerile, but I support their freedom to sing their songs and make their chants.
Lights blue touch paper and retreats ten paces................................
 
Archibald&Crooks

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Feb 1, 2005
55,694
205,833
0-Tibsy-0 said:
it would erase what I believe to be the the proudest display of unity with our Jewish history and history of the fight against anti Semitism - it would, again, be a 'victory' for those who don't believe that language evolves as well as those not understanding, or contemplating, context.
Click to expand...
If I had a mind to I could spin that completely the other way around and then we get into a never ending and very circular argument about it. We can see that from the very many threads we've had on the subject. Everything depends on each individuals interpretation of 'context' and that's either convenient to justify carrying on with it or likewise a reason to stop. So It's an argument with no winner, which is exactly why I very rarely delve too deeply into stuff like this, i'm where i'm at and am comfortable with it, i'm not on some sort of crusade to convert anyone. If you or anyone else want to sing the word then that's fine by me.
 
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Dov67

Dov67

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2005
3,387
10,505
It has always been my belief, again as a practising observant Jew, that our chants of YID ARMY represents one of the most powerful and profound messages of anti-racism in the game.

It is one of the many reasons why i have such a strong affinity and connection with this club, in spite of the pain and disappointment supporting THFC has caused me (and all of us) over the years.

I have grown up in this country for most, though not all of my life. I cannot count the number of times I have been called a “fucking Jew” or a “Jew c**t”, the same goes for my wife and my kids. My son got a measure of this when he was called “Jew bastard” at only 8 years old. My 81 year old father has suffered this kind of abuse more and more just walking from his home to synagogue in the morning

And things have got worse, considerably worse over the last few years.

And yet here we have the fans of one of the most famous and well supported clubs in the world, putting their protective arms around their Jewish supporters in an act of solidarity, and what does the world declare…….stop it!!

In the opening game at the new stadium against Palace - i stumbled across a group of Orthodox Jews in the west stand concourse who were praying the evening service - out loud, not hiding and with yarmulkas on. I joined in, completely safe and completely comfortable. There was not one single comment or word of abuse. I dont believe there is any club in the country where a group of Jews would have dared do this, let alone could have conducted a 20 minute evening prayer service in the open without being self conscious or suffering some form of attack from at least one moron.

This is Tottenham Hotspur and this is what this clubs affinity and embrace of its Jewish fans means. It is something to be proud of and celebrated not expunged.

The most galling thing in all of this is that FAR FAR FAR more focus is being placed on our supporters, whose intention is unambiguously anti-racist than the fans of Chelsea and West Ham, whose intent with their Hitler and gas chamber songs are unambiguously racist. This is the mad topsy turvey world we live in.

How did our embrace of out Jewish fans become the bigger story than Chelsea and West Ham’s antisemitic decades long racist abuse.

In large part the answer is David Baddiel - as stated in previous posts, Baddiel is not bothered by YID ARMY chants because he is Jewish but because he is a Jewish Chelsea fan. Every time he hears us sing YID ARMY the contrast between THFC’s embrace of its Jewish fan base and the racist antisemitic nature of his fans become too stark for him to bear and he becomes embarrassed to be a chelsea fan - well good, because he should be embarrassed.

He blocked me on twitter when i told him that if he didn’t like raw fish he shouldnt order sushi and if he didn’t like antisemitism at football, he shouldn’t support Chelsea.

I will never stop singing YID ARMY. It is something about our precious club that should always be celebrated and embraced.
 
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riggi

riggi

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2008
48,609
105,111
Duke of Northumberland said:
I was in a pub watching a Spurs v Feyenoord pre-season friendly once and there was Feyenoord fans there in their red and white shirts. When I was cheering on the Spurs one said "Are you Jew?"
Click to expand...

Yup. Feyenoord fans are scum. All this stuff doesn’t happen in the grounds anymore. It’s the pubs trains etc. It’s rife.
 
Houdini

Houdini

No better cure for the blues than some good pussy.
Jul 10, 2006
56,846
78,808
Ill tell you something i have stopped singing/chanting and havent done so for years and years and that is, "Stand up if you hate Arsenal".
I get it if we are playing against them but why at every other game...fuck the Arse!
 
jurgen11

jurgen11

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2004
1,852
4,607
Dov67 said:
It has always been my belief, again as a practising observant Jew, that our chants of YID ARMY represents one of the most powerful and profound messages of anti-racism in the game.

It is one of the many reasons why i have such a strong affinity and connection with this club, in spite of the pain and disappointment supporting THFC has caused me (and all of us) over the years.

I have grown up in this country for most, though not all of my life. I cannot count the number of times I have been called a “fucking Jew” or a “Jew c**t”, the same goes for my wife and my kids. My son got a measure of this when he was called “Jew bastard” at only 8 years old. My 81 year old father has suffered this kind of abuse more and more just walking from his home to synagogue in the morning

And things have got worse, considerably worse over the last few years.

And yet here we have the fans of one of the most famous and well supported clubs in the world, putting their protective arms around their Jewish supporters in an act of solidarity, and what does the world declare…….stop it!!

In the opening game at the new stadium against Palace - i stumbled across a group of Orthodox Jews in the west stand concourse who were praying the evening service - out loud, not hiding and with yarmulkas on. I joined in, completely safe and completely comfortable. There was not one single comment or word of abuse. I dont believe there is any club in the country where a group of Jews would have dared do this, let alone could have conducted a 20 minute evening prayer service in the open without being self conscious or suffering some form of attack from at least one moron.

This is Tottenham Hotspur and this is what this clubs affinity and embrace of its Jewish fans means. It is something to be proud of and celebrated not expunged.

The most galling thing in all of this is that FAR FAR FAR more focus is being placed on our supporters, whose intention is unambiguously anti-racist than the fans of Chelsea and West Ham, whose intent with their Hitler and gas chamber songs are unambiguously racist. This is the mad topsy turvey world we live in.

How did our embrace of out Jewish fans become the bigger story than Chelsea and West Ham’s antisemitic decades long racist abuse.

In large part the answer is David Baddiel - as stated in previous posts, Baddiel is not bothered by YID ARMY chants because he is Jewish but because he is a Jewish Chelsea fan. Every time he hears us sing YID ARMY the contrast between THFC’s embrace of its Jewish fan base and the racist antisemitic nature of his fans become too stark for him to bear and he becomes embarrassed to be a chelsea fan - well good, because he should be embarrassed.

He blocked me on twitter when i told him that if he didn’t like raw fish he shouldnt order sushi and if he didn’t like antisemitism at football, he shouldn’t support Chelsea.

I will never stop singing YID ARMY. It is something about our precious club that should always be celebrated and embraced.
Click to expand...
i was on the fence ..not any more Yid Army !!
 
Spurslove

Spurslove

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2012
6,627
9,281
Dov67 said:
It has always been my belief, again as a practising observant Jew, that our chants of YID ARMY represents one of the most powerful and profound messages of anti-racism in the game.

It is one of the many reasons why i have such a strong affinity and connection with this club, in spite of the pain and disappointment supporting THFC has caused me (and all of us) over the years.

I have grown up in this country for most, though not all of my life. I cannot count the number of times I have been called a “fucking Jew” or a “Jew c**t”, the same goes for my wife and my kids. My son got a measure of this when he was called “Jew bastard” at only 8 years old. My 81 year old father has suffered this kind of abuse more and more just walking from his home to synagogue in the morning

And things have got worse, considerably worse over the last few years.

And yet here we have the fans of one of the most famous and well supported clubs in the world, putting their protective arms around their Jewish supporters in an act of solidarity, and what does the world declare…….stop it!!

In the opening game at the new stadium against Palace - i stumbled across a group of Orthodox Jews in the west stand concourse who were praying the evening service - out loud, not hiding and with yarmulkas on. I joined in, completely safe and completely comfortable. There was not one single comment or word of abuse. I dont believe there is any club in the country where a group of Jews would have dared do this, let alone could have conducted a 20 minute evening prayer service in the open without being self conscious or suffering some form of attack from at least one moron.

This is Tottenham Hotspur and this is what this clubs affinity and embrace of its Jewish fans means. It is something to be proud of and celebrated not expunged.

The most galling thing in all of this is that FAR FAR FAR more focus is being placed on our supporters, whose intention is unambiguously anti-racist than the fans of Chelsea and West Ham, whose intent with their Hitler and gas chamber songs are unambiguously racist. This is the mad topsy turvey world we live in.

How did our embrace of out Jewish fans become the bigger story than Chelsea and West Ham’s antisemitic decades long racist abuse.

In large part the answer is David Baddiel - as stated in previous posts, Baddiel is not bothered by YID ARMY chants because he is Jewish but because he is a Jewish Chelsea fan. Every time he hears us sing YID ARMY the contrast between THFC’s embrace of its Jewish fan base and the racist antisemitic nature of his fans become too stark for him to bear and he becomes embarrassed to be a chelsea fan - well good, because he should be embarrassed.

He blocked me on twitter when i told him that if he didn’t like raw fish he shouldnt order sushi and if he didn’t like antisemitism at football, he shouldn’t support Chelsea.

I will never stop singing YID ARMY. It is something about our precious club that should always be celebrated and embraced.
Click to expand...

Wow. I don't have any trophy symbols in my collection to award you with, but you should get loads of them for this outstanding post. Far be it for me to suggest you do anything with it, but I'd love you to send it to the club and to the 'Kick It Out' campaign leaders.

?‍♂️

.
 
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