I thought Carrick would have been a top player for England but the reason he only got 34 caps was because he never performed. I cannot remember a match when I thought he had played well. However playing for the best team in England is somewhat easier.
Remember when Tom Cleverly was at Man United and got a load of stick for playing the same role Winks does now.
Because in said posts criticising they continually demonstrate time and again that it's their expectations that are the problem and continue to use literal factual inaccuracies to criticise.The rejection of Winks criticism is interesting to me. The position he plays is almost unanimously the position most think we need to upgrade yet when someone directly criticizes him posters say they don't know what they're talking about.
Then why do your posts continue to prove otherwise, including all the garbage that I snipped from this post? You can say that you're one thing, but if you don't actually provide any evidence to support it, then it doesn't really mean anything.With all due respect I totally know how a player is supposed to play that role.
(snip)
I'm not usually someone who buys into the trite tropes about sexy foreign names and shiny new toy syndrome, but it is absolutely 100% the case when it comes to Harry Winks.If Winks was called Jorginho and cost £57m from series a in the summer but did the exact same job he’s doing now, he’d be getting far more recognition for his play.
If Winks was called Jorginho and cost £57m from serie a in the summer but did the exact same job he’s doing now, he’d be getting far more recognition for his play.
Then why do your posts continue to prove otherwise, including all the garbage that I snipped from this post? You can say that you're one thing, but if you don't actually provide any evidence to support it, then it doesn't really mean anything.
And the other reason I snipped your post is because you predictably just cherry picked and straw manned the bullshit about the KWP pass. Ugh.
No, I pointed out quite demonstrably, with the rarity of the KWP example, that Winks passing is nowhere near progressive enough and actually, it's quite laughable he is compared to someone like Jorginho, who is far more progressive with his passing.
Unfortunately, you seem to think Winks is something he isn't. I'm seeing it in this thread with the players he is talked about alongside, Jorginho, Carrick, Modric. People seem to have this notion Winks is some immense DPLM, he simply isn't.
It seems the general consensus on these forums that CM is by far the weakest area in our team, yet in the same sentence people talk to me like I'm mad for not thinking Winks is good enough. Which is it? I'll clear it up for you, Winks unfortunately is a very tidy young player, but doesn't offer enough to be a consistent starter in our first 11.
He is the first name on the team sheet which needs upgrading. In my mind, a matter of urgency. Do you not agree that CM is the weakest part of our side? And if you do, which player should make way? If you do agree that CM is the weakest area of our side, then surely you are agreeing with me that Winks doesn't offer enough.
Lastly, if you don't think CM is the weakest area of our team, then it is you who knows nothing about football.
I thought Carrick would have been a top player for England but the reason he only got 34 caps was because he never performed. I cannot remember a match when I thought he had played well. However playing for the best team in England is somewhat easier.
People say we need another CM because right now we only have Winks and Sissoko - Dembele and Wanyama could be finished - Dier is a decent option but not exactly somebody to build a midfield around. So really we have 3 senior midfielders available to us regularly once Dier comes back. That clearly is not enough for the squad. You seem to be focusing on Winks not being good enough as the reason we need another CM when in reality it is nothing to do with Winks.
yes but that's by design. Jorginho is the only Chelsea midfielder capable of dictating play through his passing and vision. Here we have Eriksen, Alli and Lamela that always play with their heads up looking to play that killer ball. Winks keeps it simple to balance out the squad and not get in the other players way.Wow, just wow.
You obviously don't watch Jorginho play and I'm amazed 4 people agreed with that post. Jorginho is a miles better deep lying play maker than Winks. It isn't even close. Jorginho is always looking forward with his passes, he completely dictates the play and is at the centre of everything Chelsea do.
Winks does nothing of the sort.
This has absolutely confirmed what I suspected. Winks is so vastly overrated by some on here. The comparison to Jorginho is ridiculous.
Exactly. Teams played differently then as well. The 'press' hadn't been invented and 442 was the go to set up. It seems to me that Winks probably does exactly what Poch asks him to do to the best of his ability which is a huge asset but one which poeple often call him out for. At the moment I can quite safely say that I'm not missing the 'Dier 50 yard attempted pass going straight out of play or to an opponent 9 times out of 10' element to our play.
It is everything to do with Winks, because when I watch him play, I don't see a player who is doing enough in a Spurs shirt to keep his place unfortunately. He leaves us a bit short in that position.
I agree with you, a good young player who hopefully will continue to improve, and one day he may be good enough to be a regular and even makes the position his own, but I'm not seeing enough from him in that role.
With Sissoko, with his limitations in mind, having a stand out season and generally hugely impacting our game play from both an offensive and defensive perspective, it only leaves Winks as the player who is clearly upgradable.
Winks is a rotation option but asking to be a first choice there for us is still beyond him. He should learn the game from the bench, and come in when injuries and suspensions hit. I firmly believe this is what Poch thinks as well, hence why we will (hopefully) spend a large transfer fee on signing a CM either now or in the summer.
yes but that's by design. Jorginho is the only Chelsea midfielder capable of dictating play through his passing and vision. Here we have Eriksen, Alli and Lamela that always play with their heads up looking to play that killer ball. Winks keeps it simple to balance out the squad and not get in the other players way.
Can improve yes, of course, but we have to remember this is his first full season in his professional career. He should only get stronger under Poch's guidance.