Top four finish?

Shadydan · Oct 31, 2015

dondo said:
Rubbish most teams in the league play a deep defensive line vs arsenal and he has been far from useless this season

Nope, I think you need to watch Arsenal's matches and look up what an actual deep defensive line is.

millsey · Oct 31, 2015

beats1 said:
TBF the issue with the arsenal game is he neither rested the tired players nor played a full strength team. You can make an argument for both cases for that one game.

I agree with you, we should play full strength for the league and rest players for Europa.

I didnt say wining it, I said challenging it for it. Having top 4 form at the moment puts you around 2nd or 3rd as the form of the top teams is that bad. At the same stage last season Southampton had the same amount of points and the same goal difference as the league leaders this season. So it shows how poor the start from the league leaders has been

Agreed. If you contend you can win it though? Do we buy in jan? Think a few teams will

beats1 · Oct 31, 2015

nicdic said:
So a turned ankle and ankle ligament damage is the kind of injury you can prevent with training etc.? Come on Beats, you know what people are getting at here. Obviously the more tired players are the higher risk all types of injuries could be, the point being made is that our fitness guys seem to have minimised the impact of these kind of things. We're incredibly fit and sharp.

As for Kane, I'm not sure what you're saying? Him playing deeper proved that he was tired? He was playing deeper because we bought on N'Jie to stretch things later on. We made a tactical change, it wasn't just that he was tired and so hanging back. I'm sure he's got tired in games, all players will right? The whole Kane needs a rest 'narrative' has been nothing though.

I didnt say that, I said that one of the best fitness coaches reduces training intensity as the season goes on to combat fatigue and prevent injuries as overworking the players in the latter half can do that. Playing too many games also doesn't allow for double session as the downtime before games isn't enough as we have a rest day and etc. I agree we are very fit and sharp but doesn't mean we can't get tired, we also run more than any team in the premier league and this may bite us in the arse like it did last season. Rotation is one way around that. Last season we were leading the running charts and etc. by the end of the season our pressing had dropped off.

He in the city game struggled to get up front and join N'Jie and he has looked tired, obviously we agree to disagree on this.

Also its not the same for CL teams, EL teams play more games as there is more rounds. Also they have less rest period.

Also worth noting CL teams tend to have their big matches on Sundays after and their matches prior to the CL week on saturdays. Here is the difference from Last season:
Arsenal:
Played a match 3 days before - 5
Played a match 4 days before - 5
Played a match 3 days after - 2
Played a match 4 days after - 7
Played a match 5 days after - 1
AVG 3.5 days rest before games
AVG 3.9 days rest after games
Played 10 games to reach round of 16 inc qualification

Tottenham:
Played a match 3 days before - None
Played a match 4 days before - 6
Played a match 5 days before - 4
Played a match 3 days after - 10
Played a match 4 days after - NONE
AVG 4.4 days rest before games
AVG 3 days rest after games
Played 10 games to reach round of 32. (progression would have meant EL team plays on the bye weeks for CL teams)

Its clear to see why PL teams have a hangover and this week they want us to play on monday having 3 days rest before 3 days rest after a game which doesn't happen for CL teams. They have more of a equal rest before and after games and we also lose a day before and after on some game weeks due to travelling on so they do get it easier. The fact we never play a game 4 days after EL despite there being a slot for us to play is insane considering they want us to play in that slot 3 days before our game. Our only advantage this season has been lost.

mckenz · Oct 31, 2015

I think the squad is too young to do any more than hope for top 4.

I also hope that they are targeting that 3-4 spot but as fans we need to be supportive and not be surprised if things go wrong

F#### knows whats up with Chelsea at the moment but I find it almost unimaginable that they won't pick up (with Maureen or with his successor). They will have a good run at some point, as a squad they are capable of beating anyone.

I am enjoying seeing a great squad being built and Im really not looking for more than progress as a club, anything else is a bonus...

LexingtonSpurs · Oct 31, 2015

@beats1 you are grasping at straws mate - the extra EL games come in the spring and have no effect on this part of the season. If anything we are more rested, as we have played fewer EL games this year than last year, and we only played 1 cup game this year.

I'll confess I don't know what the typical training schedule is for Spurs, but I suspect it will be relaxed this week. We know players got a bit of a break after the Bournemouth game - so I think Pochettino has a handle on the workload.

Mr Pink · Oct 31, 2015

mckenz said:
I think the squad is too young to do any more than hope for top 4.

I also hope that they are targeting that 3-4 spot but as fans we need to be supportive and not be surprised if things go wrong

F#### knows whats up with Chelsea at the moment but I find it almost unimaginable that they won't pick up (with Maureen or with his successor). They will have a good run at some point, as a squad they are capable of beating anyone.

I am enjoying seeing a great squad being built and Im really not looking for more than progress as a club, anything else is a bonus...

We did well last season with a very young squad, no reason why we can't go that little bit further with most of them that little bit more experienced and with the addition of Son and Toby in particular.

We're defending very maturely for such a young team. No reason why we can't compete for fourth. Shouldn't expect it but we should have enough confidence to compete well for it.

mckenz · Oct 31, 2015

I

Mr Pink said:
We did well last season with a very young squad, no reason why we can't go that little bit further with most of them that little bit more experienced and with the addition of Son and Toby in particular.

We're defending very maturely for such a young team. No reason why we can't compete for fourth. Shouldn't expect it but we should have enough confidence to compete well for it.

I really would love it, really would

Im just enjoying the simple things right now like being the youngest squad in the Prem. It makes every win feel like a cup game.

I don't want to be all pessimist here but I think we'll have a bad month without a particularly good really reason at some point, I think that is realistic (same as believing Chelsea will come back strong)

I also really , really want to be wrong on the previous statement...COYS!!

Mr Pink · Oct 31, 2015

mckenz said:
I

I really would love it, really would

Im just enjoying the simple things right now like being the youngest squad in the Prem. It makes every win feel like a cup game.

I don't want to be all pessimist here but I think we'll have a bad month without a particularly good really reason at some point, I think that is realistic (same as believing Chelsea will come back strong)

I also really , really want to be wrong on the previous statement...COYS!!

Not saying we'll do it, just don't think we should be writing off our chances. We've got a decent chance and its the improvement in defense that's significant for me. That's the hallmark of a strong side - one that can go on good runs in terms of accumulating points.

With Kane back in the goals, long may it continue - hopefully, and with Son to come back in I think we'll go from strength to strength.

I'm sure we will have a little dip but I'm optimistic we'll be well in the mix come the business end of the season.

Wellspurs · Oct 31, 2015

If City hadn't won the lottery we would be a top 4 team regular by now.

Larryjanta · Oct 31, 2015

Wellspurs said:
If City hadn't won the lottery we would be a top 4 team regular by now.

Definitely - it was always United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. We've now topped Liverpool 6 out of 7 seasons (or something like that) so, if not for City, we'd potentially have won the league by now (given the extra revenue and clout regular CL would have given us). More than any other side, we've lost out as a result of City's fortunes

nicdic · Oct 31, 2015

beats1 said:
I didnt say that, I said that one of the best fitness coaches reduces training intensity as the season goes on to combat fatigue and prevent injuries as overworking the players in the latter half can do that. Playing too many games also doesn't allow for double session as the downtime before games isn't enough as we have a rest day and etc. I agree we are very fit and sharp but doesn't mean we can't get tired, we also run more than any team in the premier league and this may bite us in the arse like it did last season. Rotation is one way around that. Last season we were leading the running charts and etc. by the end of the season our pressing had dropped off.

He in the city game struggled to get up front and join N'Jie and he has looked tired, obviously we agree to disagree on this.

Also its not the same for CL teams, EL teams play more games as there is more rounds. Also they have less rest period.

Also worth noting CL teams tend to have their big matches on Sundays after and their matches prior to the CL week on saturdays. Here is the difference from Last season:
Arsenal:
Played a match 3 days before - 5
Played a match 4 days before - 5
Played a match 3 days after - 2
Played a match 4 days after - 7
Played a match 5 days after - 1
AVG 3.5 days rest before games
AVG 3.9 days rest after games
Played 10 games to reach round of 16 inc qualification

Tottenham:
Played a match 3 days before - None
Played a match 4 days before - 6
Played a match 5 days before - 4
Played a match 3 days after - 10
Played a match 4 days after - NONE
AVG 4.4 days rest before games
AVG 3 days rest after games
Played 10 games to reach round of 32. (progression would have meant EL team plays on the bye weeks for CL teams)

Its clear to see why PL teams have a hangover and this week they want us to play on monday having 3 days rest before 3 days rest after a game which doesn't happen for CL teams. They have more of a equal rest before and after games and we also lose a day before and after on some game weeks due to travelling on so they do get it easier. The fact we never play a game 4 days after EL despite there being a slot for us to play is insane considering they want us to play in that slot 3 days before our game. Our only advantage this season has been lost.

So in the CL teams get 3 and half days before, and 4 after. We currently get 4 and half before and 3 after. Same amount of time, different distribution. I'm not sure how this makes such a difference. You've got to manage a squad whichever way. The issues stem from the media's perception of the EL, and thus the fans perception of the EL versus the CL.

nicdic · Oct 31, 2015

Larryjanta said:
Definitely - it was always United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. We've now topped Liverpool 6 out of 7 seasons (or something like that) so, if not for City, we'd potentially have won the league by now (given the extra revenue and clout regular CL would have given us). More than any other side, we've lost out as a result of City's fortunes

Hey, we could go down the if Roman Abramovich hadn't come along and rescued Chelsea route too...

Bulletspur · Oct 31, 2015

millsey said:
Cmon you saw what happened on here when Poch rested players for Arsenal cup game. Then he played full team Anderlect and won. My opinion is he plays full strength team every single prem game. The other cup games can be a mix. And we have no chance of the league or even near it. If we had another superstar striker maybe

I agree with the substitutions aspect. Once Kane got his hatrick against the Cherries he should have been rested. Instead Poch kept him on unnecessarily for another 15 mins therefore risking injury to our only striker. I always felt his use of substitutes need improving

tttcowan · Oct 31, 2015

beats1 said:
I didnt say that, I said that one of the best fitness coaches reduces training intensity as the season goes on to combat fatigue and prevent injuries as overworking the players in the latter half can do that. Playing too many games also doesn't allow for double session as the downtime before games isn't enough as we have a rest day and etc. I agree we are very fit and sharp but doesn't mean we can't get tired, we also run more than any team in the premier league and this may bite us in the arse like it did last season. Rotation is one way around that. Last season we were leading the running charts and etc. by the end of the season our pressing had dropped off.

He in the city game struggled to get up front and join N'Jie and he has looked tired, obviously we agree to disagree on this.

Also its not the same for CL teams, EL teams play more games as there is more rounds. Also they have less rest period.

Also worth noting CL teams tend to have their big matches on Sundays after and their matches prior to the CL week on saturdays. Here is the difference from Last season:
Arsenal:
Played a match 3 days before - 5
Played a match 4 days before - 5
Played a match 3 days after - 2
Played a match 4 days after - 7
Played a match 5 days after - 1
AVG 3.5 days rest before games
AVG 3.9 days rest after games
Played 10 games to reach round of 16 inc qualification

Tottenham:
Played a match 3 days before - None
Played a match 4 days before - 6
Played a match 5 days before - 4
Played a match 3 days after - 10
Played a match 4 days after - NONE
AVG 4.4 days rest before games
AVG 3 days rest after games
Played 10 games to reach round of 32. (progression would have meant EL team plays on the bye weeks for CL teams)

Its clear to see why PL teams have a hangover and this week they want us to play on monday having 3 days rest before 3 days rest after a game which doesn't happen for CL teams. They have more of a equal rest before and after games and we also lose a day before and after on some game weeks due to travelling on so they do get it easier. The fact we never play a game 4 days after EL despite there being a slot for us to play is insane considering they want us to play in that slot 3 days before our game. Our only advantage this season has been lost.

This is great mate. Puts to bed the old "if we can't perform in the prem after EL his do we expect to do so after CL"... Because on average you get 0.9 days more rest prior to prem games when in the CL. Which is huge.

nicdic · Nov 1, 2015

tttcowan said:
This is great mate. Puts to bed the old "if we can't perform in the prem after EL his do we expect to do so after CL"... Because on average you get 0.9 days more rest prior to prem games when in the CL. Which is huge.

If all you're thinking about is the game after a european game. CL teams need to think more about the match before a european game. They work the other way round, the two situations are actually incredibly similar.

theShiznit · Nov 1, 2015

beats1 said:
I didnt say that, I said that one of the best fitness coaches reduces training intensity as the season goes on to combat fatigue and prevent injuries as overworking the players in the latter half can do that. Playing too many games also doesn't allow for double session as the downtime before games isn't enough as we have a rest day and etc. I agree we are very fit and sharp but doesn't mean we can't get tired, we also run more than any team in the premier league and this may bite us in the arse like it did last season. Rotation is one way around that. Last season we were leading the running charts and etc. by the end of the season our pressing had dropped off.

He in the city game struggled to get up front and join N'Jie and he has looked tired, obviously we agree to disagree on this.

Also its not the same for CL teams, EL teams play more games as there is more rounds. Also they have less rest period.

Also worth noting CL teams tend to have their big matches on Sundays after and their matches prior to the CL week on saturdays. Here is the difference from Last season:
Arsenal:
Played a match 3 days before - 5
Played a match 4 days before - 5
Played a match 3 days after - 2
Played a match 4 days after - 7
Played a match 5 days after - 1
AVG 3.5 days rest before games
AVG 3.9 days rest after games
Played 10 games to reach round of 16 inc qualification

Tottenham:
Played a match 3 days before - None
Played a match 4 days before - 6
Played a match 5 days before - 4
Played a match 3 days after - 10
Played a match 4 days after - NONE
AVG 4.4 days rest before games
AVG 3 days rest after games
Played 10 games to reach round of 32. (progression would have meant EL team plays on the bye weeks for CL teams)

Its clear to see why PL teams have a hangover and this week they want us to play on monday having 3 days rest before 3 days rest after a game which doesn't happen for CL teams. They have more of a equal rest before and after games and we also lose a day before and after on some game weeks due to travelling on so they do get it easier. The fact we never play a game 4 days after EL despite there being a slot for us to play is insane considering they want us to play in that slot 3 days before our game. Our only advantage this season has been lost.

I agree with you but it's worse than that. It's not actually 3 days we get after (it's more like 2.7) due to Evening Europa starts on Thursday and Afternoon games on Sunday... (less than the magic 72 hours)

theShiznit · Nov 1, 2015

nicdic said:
If all you're thinking about is the game after a european game. CL teams need to think more about the match before a european game. They work the other way round, the two situations are actually incredibly similar.

They get over 72 hours before and after almost every game, we don't in 25%+ of our league campaign.

tttcowan · Nov 1, 2015

nicdic said:
If all you're thinking about is the game after a european game. CL teams need to think more about the match before a european game. They work the other way round, the two situations are actually incredibly similar.

Yes. Apart from one screws up your European performances. While the other screws up the league. Hence why being in the EL is a massive handicap to qualifying for the CL. More so than being in the CL.

Edit - I'm not saying we shouldn't try in the EL or whatever. I'm just saying it is a hindrance to our league form. And a bleedin obvious one if you ask me. And more so than an CL campaign. Much more in my opinion and every year we're in it more evidence piles up to show this sort of thinking is correct.

nightgoat · Nov 1, 2015

tttcowan said:
Yes. Apart from one screws up your European performances. While the other screws up the league. Hence why being in the EL is a massive handicap to qualifying for the CL. More so than being in the CL.

Edit - I'm not saying we shouldn't try in the EL or whatever. I'm just saying it is a hindrance to our league form. And a bleedin obvious one if you ask me. And more so than an CL campaign. Much more in my opinion and every year we're in it more evidence piles up to show this sort of thinking is correct.

How's our post-EL league results going this season?

tttcowan · Nov 1, 2015

nightgoat said:
How's our post-EL league results going this season?

Pretty well... And?

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