Harry Kane

Mr Pink said:

I assume you were probably writing him off from the get go and now feel the need to protect your initial opinion?

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Not at all. Why on earth would I dislike being proven wrong if it meant the unearthing of a genuine talent? I'm not a crazed fan that believes his opinion is worth more than the club's fortunes. At the time I said I'd love nothing more than to be wrong about the kid. But the fact of the matter is he's not a kid. He's a year younger than Eriksen. Yes Christian has more experience, but that's because he's been good enough to accumulate that playing time and subsequent experience.

I still state that I'd love to be wrong and for Kane to be an integral part of our team, but I highly doubt that possibility and believe he'll end up at best at a club like Palace or Leicester. We sack managers for getting fourth and sack their successors after record breaking PL seasons. Can Harry Kane take us to that level? Anyone that thinks he can on what we've seen thus far is merely lying to himself because Kane is a product of our youth system and looks like an honest lad.

dimiSpur said:

Not at all. Why on earth would I dislike being proven wrong if it meant the unearthing of a genuine talent? I'm not a crazed fan that believes his opinion is worth more than the club's fortunes. At the time I said I'd love nothing more than to be wrong about the kid. But the fact of the matter is he's not a kid. He's a year younger than Eriksen. Yes Christian has more experience, but that's because he's been good enough to accumulate that playing time and subsequent experience.

I still state that I'd love to be wrong and for Kane to be an integral part of our team, but I highly doubt that possibility and believe he'll end up at best at a club like Palace or Leicester. We sack managers for getting fourth and sack their successors after record breaking PL seasons. Can Harry Kane take us to that level? Anyone that thinks he can on what we've seen thus far is merely lying to himself because Kane is a product of our youth system and looks like an honest lad.

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Well that's nice to hear but I think you're in the minority here. He's done very well in his first two full league starts for us, and its not really a matter of opinion, he just has - its clear to see, not to mention he has two goals to show for it.

Players also develop at different rates, and Kane will now be getting more of a chance to be playing regularly alongside vastly superior players to that of his career to date, broadly speaking.

I think its fair to say he's showing signs that he could perform well at this level. Why not show some patience to see how he continues to develop.

Bobbins said:

Well it's good you let us know so we can all change our minds, agree with you and get the misery over with

You'd best tell all the coaching staff at Spurs and also at England Under-19 and Under-21 level who keep playing him as well then, oh and the fans who voted him player of the season at Millwall after half a season of football... You know, you wouldn't want them wasting time when he could be hurrying up and moving to a 'page 2' Premier League club...

By the way, based on your previous posts you've now upgraded him from 'a decent Championship player' to a 'page 2 Premier League club' between the ages of 18 and 20. Does this rate of progression mean that by the time he's 22 you reckon he should be pushing for his move to Madrid?

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Being sarcastic to get funny ratings doesn't negate the fact that Kane has done nothing in a Spurs shirt to merit any hope that he'll be anywhere near our first XI. In comparison to Soldado anyone could have looked better up front for us this season, so maybe that's why people are jumping on the Kane bandwagon.

The fact of the matter is, he's scored two relatively easy goals. His goal against Sunderland was against the worst side I've seen all season and a tap in. He did one or two good things in the match and worked his socks off, but did we see anything in that match to show he can be relied on? Not in my eyes.

The game is about opinions and obviously if it's an opinion that is against the flavour of the week people will jump on their high horse and suggest that I think I'm somehow laying down a superiority in my post, as you've kindly implied in yours.

Yes I have upgraded him, but I did say at best. That still means his average might yet be the Championship. I firmly believe the most we'll see him at is a club in the lower part of the PL. You think otherwise. Do you want me to apologise for daring to have a differing opinion to you?

Mr Pink said:

Well that's nice to hear but I think you're in the minority here. He's done very well in his first two full league starts for us, and its not really a matter of opinion, he just has - its clear to see, not to mention he has two goals to show for it.

Players also develop at different rates, and Kane will now be getting more of a chance to be playing regularly alongside vastly superior players to that of his career to date, broadly speaking.

I think its fair to say he's showing signs that he could perform well at this level. Why not show some patience to see how he continues to develop.

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I'm sorry but apart from a headed goal from 6 yards out and a good work rate, what did you see against WBA that merits a "done very well"? He missed an open goal from 3 yards out and dragged another strike wide. Am I missing something? Perhaps the little slide ball into Naughton for the first which any footballer should be able to pull off as the two WBA defenders were wider apart than Jordan's legs.

He works very hard and good on him. He obviously is a Spurs man and he's a product of our youth system. But one minute we're a club that needs a 60,000 stadium and 4th isn't good enough and the next we're happy with a player that works hard and appears to be the offspring of Crouch and Ribery? I don't like him as a player and I think he will end up at a lower PL club at best. We'll see what will happen though Let's all hope I'm wrong and he turns out to be the solution to our striking woes

dimiSpur said:

I'm sorry but apart from a headed goal from 6 yards out and a good work rate, what did you see against WBA that merits a "done very well"? He missed an open goal from 3 yards out and dragged another strike wide. Am I missing something? Perhaps the little slide ball into Naughton for the first which any footballer should be able to pull off as the two WBA defenders were wider apart than Jordan's legs.

He works very hard and good on him. He obviously is a Spurs man and he's a product of our youth system. But one minute we're a club that needs a 60,000 stadium and 4th isn't good enough and the next we're happy with a player that works hard and appears to be the offspring of Crouch and Ribery? I don't like him as a player and I think he will end up at a lower PL club at best. We'll see what will happen though Let's all hope I'm wrong and he turns out to be the solution to our striking woes

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Don't apologise, just watch him a bit more closely. Good movement and actually has some real wit and intelligence in his play.

dimiSpur said:

Being sarcastic to get funny ratings doesn't negate the fact that Kane has done nothing in a Spurs shirt to merit any hope that he'll be anywhere near our first XI.

The game is about opinions and obviously if it's an opinion that is against the flavour of the week people will jump on their high horse and suggest that I think I'm somehow laying down a superiority in my post, as you've kindly implied in yours.

Yes I have upgraded him, but I did say at best. That still means his average might yet be the Championship. I firmly believe the most we'll see him at is a club in the lower part of the PL. You think otherwise. Do you want me to apologise for daring to have a differing opinion to you?

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dimiSpur said:

Anyone that disagrees is merely prolonging the inevitable. He will, at best, end up at a page 2 Premier League club.

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Except that he has now done several things in a Spurs shirt to merit hope that as he gets older and more experienced, he might get near our first 11 (in case you hadn't noticed, he's actually already in it, and likely will be for the rest of the season). Obviously you can't see it, but that doesn't mean those things aren't there.

In addition to that, you're essentially saying here that if he doesn't turn out to be good enough to start in our first 11 or very near it, then he's not worth having around at all and we should give up on him. So if we have a team of first-11-only players, who exactly is going to sit on the bench, give us options, cover injuries and be happy to not necessarily be first choice?

Another first-11 grade striker is going to cost the club tens of millions again, and you'd rather have that than let Kane develop past the age of 20?

I didn't imply anything - you quite clearly state above that anyone who disagrees with you is flat-out wrong - you typed all the superiority out in your post yourself. I just took the piss out of how completely and utterly ridiculous that was as a statement (which privately you'd probably admit yourself).

If you've been willing/able to upgrade him now two years down the line (much of which he has spent injured or in our reserves), why aren't you willing to accept that he could further improve, and be worthy of another dimiSpur upgrade in the future? Why is the limit you've placed on him now the best he can get, when the previous limit you put on him has been replaced with a higher one? Why can't you accept that he has significantly improved as a player and could easily significantly improve again over the next couple of years?

And having a differing opinion to yourself is apparently what you want everyone else to give up on - don't try to associate me with a shut-down argument when you've written one out quite nicely yourself. All I've done is point out the stunning post you yourself made.

I've been quietly impressed by Kane ever since he started getting game time for the first-team. No he doesn't have much pace, but that really isn't as much of an issue as some seem to think it is for a player like him.

He needs to work on his composure, but I've noticed some very nimble footwork on occasions, and some excellent positional sense. He's also got a range of finishing that reminds me a little bit of Shearer (and no...I don't think he's a Shearer-type striker at all). I remember him scoring a stunning goal for Millwall from about 25-30 yards out.

As far as I'm concerned, he's got the sort of core skills that will only improve with age as long as he's nurtured and given opportunities. Stick him in a championship team for the next 5 years and it will look like he never had the skills to make it. But put him in a team surrounded by players of the quality of, say, Eriksen, and I honestly think he'll shine.

I'm sure this will sound odd to some, but seeing Kane given a proper chance would significantly boost my enthusiasm for our club, at a point where I've been beginning to lose all faith. There are plenty of things I dislike about Sherwood (and lord knows I don't want him being our manager next season), but his confidence in Bentaleb (if misguided), and his willingness to play Kane, have to be admired.

It's difficult to explain, but I get the same feeling about Kane as I did when Barmby first broke into the team. He just seems like a player that has something unpredictable about him..a quickness of thought that makes up for any lack of pace. I desperately need something to make me feel proud about being a Spurs fan right now, and developing a young English striker would definitely do the trick.

Spurger King said:

I've been quietly impressed by Kane ever since he started getting game time for the first-team. No he doesn't have much pace, but that really isn't as much of an issue as some seem to think it is for a player like him.

He needs to work on his composure, but I've noticed some very nimble footwork on occasions, and some excellent positional sense. He's also got a range of finishing that reminds me a little bit of Shearer (and no...I don't think he's a Shearer-type striker at all). I remember him scoring a stunning goal for Millwall from about 25-30 yards out.

As far as I'm concerned, he's got the sort of core skills that will only improve with age as long as he's nurtured and given opportunities. Stick him in a championship team for the next 5 years and it will look like he never had the skills to make it. But put him in a team surrounded by players of the quality of, say, Eriksen, and I honestly think he'll shine.

I'm sure this will sound odd to some, but seeing Kane given a proper chance would significantly boost my enthusiasm for our club, at a point where I've been beginning to lose all faith. There are plenty of things I dislike about Sherwood (and lord knows I don't want him being our manager next season), but his confidence in Bentaleb (if misguided), and his willingness to play Kane, have to be admired.

It's difficult to explain, but I get the same feeling about Kane as I did when Barmby first broke into the team. He just seems like a player that has something unpredictable about him..a quickness of thought that makes up for any lack of pace. I desperately need something to make me feel proud about being a Spurs fan right now, and developing a young English striker would definitely do the trick.

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Everyone gets excited about Pritchard (rightly so) and shrugs of Harry Kane....but let's not forget, Kane is actually younger than Pritchard and already has some impressive EPL games/goals under his belt.

I agree with everything you say above Spurger King. He isn't the quickest, but I think he is clever and has a certain guile that isn't easy to come across. I think he will work well when played with another striker. I can see him building into a player who can hand out some assists as well.

worcestersauce said:

I have to disagree with you dimiSpur, I believe he does have the technical ability and already seems to be comfortable scoring from outside the box, attacking the near post forcross ball tap ins and out jumping defenders to score with his head, also take note how many times he is beaten in the air when receiving a long clearance from the keeper, I'm not sure I've seen him beaten at all.
What he doesn't have is the electric running very fast style of play that gets everybody so excited, classic example is Rahim Sterling who, if he's that good now, ought to turn into a world class player, except that he's just as likely to not improve much at all, speed is his greatest asset and he's already fast so he quite possibly isn't going to improve over the years not to mention our own Jermain Defoe who was a terrific player at 22, as good as he was at 30 in fact.
Harry Kane has the brain and ability and is gaining the strength to allow him to use them, because of his style of play he is, unlike Sterling, still far from his best, in simple terms he is the kind of player that will improve throughout his career and it is because of this that I believe you are premature in your conclusion, you may turn out to be right but I'd be very surprised if you are.

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Your description of Harry Kane puts me in mind of our old boy Edward Sheringham, who had great technique and vision but also lacked pace and was hardly pulling up trees at an early age. I haven't seen much of Harry but is that a fair comparison? If he develops into anything like the player Teddy was then we have a winner.

Redfap said:

Everyone gets excited about Pritchard (rightly so) and shrugs of Harry Kane....but let's not forget, Kane is actually younger than Pritchard and already has some impressive EPL games/goals under his belt.

I agree with everything you say above Spurger King. He isn't the quickest, but I think he is clever and has a certain guile that isn't easy to come across. I think he will work well when played with another striker. I can see him building into a player who can hand out some assists as well.

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Yep, 'guile' is the perfect word. Being able to think on your feet and create a chance out of nothing is worth its weight in gold. There was a Europa League game a couple of years ago (Harry was in charge) where Kane was showing the sort of subtle trickery that Berbatov would have been proud of. That was the moment when I sat up and took notice.

Like I alluded to above, I think he can be great in a good team, or could be made to look poor if he's allowed to drop down the divisions.

I would love to see him kept on as our third striker. I'm firmly in the Soldado camp, as he's an incredible striker that we'll all fall in love with if he's used properly. Ade is one of the best strikers around if motivated. But Kane seems like a player that would excel if some confidence is shown in him.

Without wanting to sound too wankerish, I've been doing my PhD in the subject of creativity, which has involved looking at instinct and improvisation. Kane seems to me like the sort of player that will improve considerably if he's playing regularly enough to not have to think about what he's doing, and can just trust his instincts. Everything about him screams 'natural ability'.

Spurger King said:

Yep, 'guile' is the perfect word. Being able to think on your feet and create a chance out of nothing is worth its weight in gold. There was a Europa League game a couple of years ago (Harry was in charge) where Kane was showing the sort of subtle trickery that Berbatov would have been proud of. That was the moment when I sat up and took notice.

Like I alluded to above, I think he can be great in a good team, or could be made to look poor if he's allowed to drop down the divisions.

I would love to see him kept on as our third striker. I'm firmly in the Soldado camp, as he's an incredible striker that we'll all fall in love with if he's used properly. Ade is one of the best strikers around if motivated. But Kane seems like a player that would excel if some confidence is shown in him.

Without wanting to sound too wankerish, I've been doing my PhD in the subject of creativity, which has involved looking at instinct and improvisation. Kane seems to me like the sort of player that will improve considerably if he's playing regularly enough to not have to think about what he's doing, and can just trust his instincts. Everything about him screams 'natural ability'.

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It's also worth noting that Berbatov made his Bundesliga debut at 20, and his first start he was subbed at half time (only made 5 sub apperances and made 1 start that season).

In Berbatov's first 2 full seasons in the Bundesliga, he scored 11 goals in 30 starts plus 18 additional sub apperances.

Berbatov's first season where started to do well he was 22 when the season started 23 when it finished.

Harry Kane already has better work rate than Berbatov ever had, lets hope he can match his technique and vision too.

@Bobby__Lucky said:

Interesting Rebrab, I got a few question marks when i mentioned he reminded me of a young Alan Shearer, as it happens I see a bit of Teddy as well. Shearers record was pretty poor at southampton maybe something like 30 in 120 or 1 in 4 ( cant be bothered to look up) ....But i really think the young dude has the potential to be top draw for us, and can see Kane, Bentaleb and indeed Carroll to make big strides next season.

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At the same age as Kane he scored 4 in 36 (before that he scored 6 in 41 games over 3 season, although he did score a hatrick at 17 against Arsenal) for Southampton and the next season 16 in 41. Then he went awesome.

only1waddle said:

Yep, i like Lambert, has a deceptively good touch, Kane strikes me as the sort of player that will learn the more he plays, he seems to have decent self awareness and knows the type of player he is or wants to be, unlike Townsend who has far more experience but lacks direction, awareness and team ethic.

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Where do you get that Townsend lacks team ethic? He always puts in a shift and he loves the club, Spurs through and through. For all that is made of Lennon's defensive prowess (lmao), Townsend does just as much.

The thing I like about Kane is he has the physical built of a old fashioned number 9 and yet the football intelligence of a number 10. Reminds me of Dean Ashton actually.

I think ingredients for a great concoction is there, awaiting for a master chef with the midas touch to turn him. Might take a few seasons to fufil though.

As long as he doesn't go all Danny Rose about it and demand being first choice striker next season I suspect we will see him develop a lot.

I've always thought there was something there as he would always show promise in his early appearances but just not have the ball fall right in front of goal to make that breakthrough.

The goal against Hull was great to see however I thought his efforts away to Benfica were the real breakthrough moment for me. I thought he caused them all sorts of problems and was as big part of our fight back there. He has shown signs of being an intelligent footballer, if he can get a bit more clinical (he's always done pretty well goalscoring wise at youth levels) I think we'll be seeing quite a bit of him over the years.

Sometimes players can only thrive with the right players around them, and I think that applies to Kane at Spurs. He's not gonna be first choice any time soon but he's an ideal 3rd striker and I'm intrigued to see how he develops...

More pro's than cons as far as I'm concerned.

He's good in the air, has good ball control, is creative (did anybody notice the beautiful slide through pass to Lennon to assist one of our goals v WBA?), knows when to drop off and when to make a run, has a thunderous long shot (remember his goal in the Carling Cup this season?), can beat a man with the ball at his feet and hold onto it under pressure. He also works bloody hard. He is 20, so is only going to improve, how much is up to him really. His movement means that as long as crosses come in, he will always have chances, so if he becomes better from close up he is capable of being at least a good goalscorer if not a great one, and he's shown that he is able to make chances for himself too.

What holds him back is his lack of pace, but that can be compensated for if the rest of his game is up to scratch. Much depends on where he ends up, right now it's not overly clear whether he should lead the line or play off a main striker. I would suggest that he'll end up playing as a main striker and will be best served with quicker, more nimble players around him. So far, in his fledgeling days, he is doing well in a side that has little direction or style. I would love to see him in a well drilled side with three creative types behind him (Eriksen, Lamela and A.n.other). Players, especially young ones, improve by playing with high quality players. It would also be interesting to see him as one of those three behind the forward with Soldado leading the line but I'd be slightly worried that having both of Kane and Soldado in a front four would lack pace, it would need to be a very in tune and well coached attack. He has much less experience, and is a couple of years younger, than Danny Wellbeck for instance, who last season in his second season as a semi-regular for the evenutual runaway Champions scored just one league goal.

Kane is improving every time he plays, he's looking more confident and if he finishes the season strongly with another 2/3 goals then whoever is hired in the summer will have no choice but to consider him ahead of the new season, while we may well be saved having to find a new striker in the summer too (as Adebayor, Soldado and Kane (if he takes this chance) would read very well as striker options considering they'll be fighting for one place). Especially as a homegrown boy (god forbid we have a player with whom we can develop an affinity), he has time on his side and I for one am willing to be patient and see if he can build on a promising start an improve to the level needed. He has the tools, the right attitude and management and he may well be able to use them.

He has his chance now. Soldado is injured, Adebayor is off form, we have a favourable run of fixtures. He'll probably never get a better chance than this to show his worth, or at least not for a long time, so it's up to him to take it. I'm pretty confident that he will.

Spurger King said:

Yep, 'guile' is the perfect word. Being able to think on your feet and create a chance out of nothing is worth its weight in gold. There was a Europa League game a couple of years ago (Harry was in charge) where Kane was showing the sort of subtle trickery that Berbatov would have been proud of. That was the moment when I sat up and took notice.

Like I alluded to above, I think he can be great in a good team, or could be made to look poor if he's allowed to drop down the divisions.

I would love to see him kept on as our third striker. I'm firmly in the Soldado camp, as he's an incredible striker that we'll all fall in love with if he's used properly. Ade is one of the best strikers around if motivated. But Kane seems like a player that would excel if some confidence is shown in him.

Without wanting to sound too wankerish, I've been doing my PhD in the subject of creativity, which has involved looking at instinct and improvisation. Kane seems to me like the sort of player that will improve considerably if he's playing regularly enough to not have to think about what he's doing, and can just trust his instincts. Everything about him screams 'natural ability'.

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I'm a big fan of Soldado as well, whilst he has struggle this year his class is evident.

BringBack_leGin said:

More pro's than cons as far as I'm concerned.

He's good in the air, has good ball control, is creative (did anybody notice the beautiful slide through pass to Lennon to assist one of our goals v WBA?), knows when to drop off and when to make a run, has a thunderous long shot (remember his goal in the Carling Cup this season?), can beat a man with the ball at his feet and hold onto it under pressure. He also works bloody hard. He is 20, so is only going to improve, how much is up to him really. His movement means that as long as crosses come in, he will always have chances, so if he becomes better from close up he is capable of being at least a good goalscorer if not a great one, and he's shown that he is able to make chances for himself too.

What holds him back is his lack of pace, but that can be compensated for if the rest of his game is up to scratch. Much depends on where he ends up, right now it's not overly clear whether he should lead the line or play off a main striker. I would suggest that he'll end up playing as a main striker and will be best served with quicker, more nimble players around him. So far, in his fledgeling days, he is doing well in a side that has little direction or style. I would love to see him in a well drilled side with three creative types behind him (Eriksen, Lamela and A.n.other). Players, especially young ones, improve by playing with high quality players. It would also be interesting to see him as one of those three behind the forward with Soldado leading the line but I'd be slightly worried that having both of Kane and Soldado in a front four would lack pace, it would need to be a very in tune and well coached attack. He has much less experience, and is a couple of years younger, than Danny Wellbeck for instance, who last season in his second season as a semi-regular for the evenutual runaway Champions scored just one league goal.

Kane is improving every time he plays, he's looking more confident and if he finishes the season strongly with another 2/3 goals then whoever is hired in the summer will have no choice but to consider him ahead of the new season, while we may well be saved having to find a new striker in the summer too (as Adebayor, Soldado and Kane (if he takes this chance) would read very well as striker options considering they'll be fighting for one place). Especially as a homegrown boy (god forbid we have a player with whom we can develop an affinity), he has time on his side and I for one am willing to be patient and see if he can build on a promising start an improve to the level needed. He has the tools, the right attitude and management and he may well be able to use them.

He has his chance now. Soldado is injured, Adebayor is off form, we have a favourable run of fixtures. He'll probably never get a better chance than this to show his worth, or at least not for a long time, so it's up to him to take it. I'm pretty confident that he will.

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Good post, but is this right?

Bobbins said:

Except that he has now done several things in a Spurs shirt to merit hope that as he gets older and more experienced, he might get near our first 11 (in case you hadn't noticed, he's actually already in it, and likely will be for the rest of the season). Obviously you can't see it, but that doesn't mean those things aren't there.

In addition to that, you're essentially saying here that if he doesn't turn out to be good enough to start in our first 11 or very near it, then he's not worth having around at all and we should give up on him. So if we have a team of first-11-only players, who exactly is going to sit on the bench, give us options, cover injuries and be happy to not necessarily be first choice?

Another first-11 grade striker is going to cost the club tens of millions again, and you'd rather have that than let Kane develop past the age of 20?

I didn't imply anything - you quite clearly state above that anyone who disagrees with you is flat-out wrong - you typed all the superiority out in your post yourself. I just took the piss out of how completely and utterly ridiculous that was as a statement (which privately you'd probably admit yourself).

If you've been willing/able to upgrade him now two years down the line (much of which he has spent injured or in our reserves), why aren't you willing to accept that he could further improve, and be worthy of another dimiSpur upgrade in the future? Why is the limit you've placed on him now the best he can get, when the previous limit you put on him has been replaced with a higher one? Why can't you accept that he has significantly improved as a player and could easily significantly improve again over the next couple of years?

And having a differing opinion to yourself is apparently what you want everyone else to give up on - don't try to associate me with a shut-down argument when you've written one out quite nicely yourself. All I've done is point out the stunning post you yourself made.

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Why are you obsessed with my upgrading of him? I hardly suggested he was a League 2 player before now being thankful of Barcelona's transfer embargo. I said he was a Championship player, now I said maybe lower PL at best.

Football is about opinions. Mine is that he's not good enough. A lower PL striker might be good enough as third choice, but that is moving the goal posts. The argument is he won't be good enough to be a starter. Unless this whole argument is about who should be our 3rd choice striker? I think we have bigger problems in deciding who should be our first choice as our £26m striker is looking woeful (despite being such a great player in Spain) and struggling to settle into the PL and our other striker is Adebayor, who gets the MOTM award when he wakes up in a good mood but might aswell be sitting in the Paxton when he seemingly isn't "feeling it".