Why Harry Redknapp is no longer the manager to take Spurs Forward

[stemark44]

Yes, spotting total unknowns like Suarez and Carroll and paying over £60m for them takes a real expert eye. Ditto Downing, Adam, Henderson, Bellamy… Just how does Damo do it, eh?

I don't have any problem with the players they bought,just the amounts they paid for them.

Suarez was relatively cheap at approx £22m......I would have paid that.
Adam was cheap approx £7m...I would have paid that.
Bellamy was a free............no brainer.

Henderson is a good young player and I would have paid £10/12m for him.
Carroll is a very good header of the ball and can muscle defenders but I wouldn't have paid more than £15m for him.
Always liked Stewart Downing and would have paid £15m for him.

So by my reckoning they have overpaid by about £35million..........which is a huge amount of money.
However if they qualify for the Champions League that would almost clear it.

 

[SpurSince57]

My point, however, was that it would hardly take a genius to spot these players; for anyone to say, effectively, 'See! This is what we have lost with Commolli!' is little short of asinine.

You or I could have picked that lot. Given a shedload of cash, you or I could have signed them.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Absolutely correct. Liverpool are fixing for a fall if you ask me. There's absolutely no art in identifying top players and the paying over the odds for them as Liverpool have. We haven't heard what wages they're paying either, but seeing as they were already up around £120m p/a mark with a turnover not much greater than ours (once they didn't have CL footy) it can't be pretty. They also have a stadium issue.

The whole Liverpool project under Henry smacks of naive short-termism and I've a feeling their chickens will come home to roost in the next year or two.

Sloth, do you still have the Deloitte (I think) report you posted a few months back ?

 

[3Dnata]

i don't know if this is the right thread to post this in but seeing as his names been mentioned, am I alone in thinking Henderson could be absolutely top notch and prove to be a snip for the money paid for him?

 

[stemark44]

My point, however, was that it would hardly take a genius to spot these players; for anyone to say, effectively, 'See! This is what we have lost with Commolli!' is little short of asinine.

You or I could have picked that lot. Given a shedload of cash, you or I could have signed them.

It doesn't take a genius to spot most good players but one thing I would congratulate Comolli on...............the guy can close out a deal.

 

[stemark44]

i don't know if this is the right thread to post this in but seeing as his names been mentioned, am I alone in thinking Henderson could be absolutely top notch and prove to be a snip for the money paid for him?

No you are not alone.

 

[SpurSince57]

Possibly, but he wasn't (or isn't) an unknown. Ralph's lad might not be widely known here, but I'd be surprised if Suarez hadn't put his name forward.

The idea that Damo was, or is, some kind of superscout was shown to be bollocks a long while ago.

 

[stemark44]

Possibly, but he wasn't (or isn't) an unknown. Ralph's lad might not be widely known here, but I'd be surprised if Suarez hadn't put his name forward.

The idea that Damo was, or is, some kind of superscout was shown to be bollocks a long while ago.

Get your Coates!:grin:

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

If it was down to Redknapp our squad would currently look something like this:

Friedel
Neville Upson Gallas Bale
Beckham Modric Parker J. Cole
Crouch Adebayour​

He spent something like £39m on Crouch, Keane and Defoe and we will be lucky if we recoup half that. In fact the core of the squad was here when he came.

Naturally over time we've improved as we've had the cash to invest.

That said Harry has played a important part in our success, it's just that he's part of it rather than the saviour many seem to believe him to be.

What you struggle to understand is how come so many people see differently from you. In order to make sense of it you have to imagine us blind, prejudiced fools with hidden agendas and a warped way of enjoying the game. Perhaps you should question though whether it's you who's less than objective, whether it's you who have fallen for Harry and like the dutiful, loving wife you who are unable to see the object of your affections faults?

As for the Ancelotti thing. I did a comparison a few months back of a whole load of Premier League and foreign managers past and present just looking at their early careers, what they did before getting their break and getting a big club. You should try it yourself, just use wiki and type in people like SAF, David Moyes, Owen Coyle even David Pleat. Anyone you fancy. And the type in Harry Redknapp. There's barely a comparison. Redknapp's record has been mediocre almost wherever he's been.

The bench would be pretty tasty though wouldn't it, Cahill, Young, Hazard, Mata, Rossi, Diarra. Maybe you forgot those players.

I understand it very well. I know a lot of spurs fans and there's a section who are not happy unless they've got something to moan at. I see it for what it is. The best Spurs team in at least 20 years. Redknapp is the head of that team with a record that cant be argued with. Simple. Why try to stir up shit that's not there(not aimed at you necessarily, just general).

You haven't really brought up Ancelotti. But in regards to Coyle etc just because they might have a better record in the lower leagues(debatable) doesn't mean they would turn it on here. Each club is different. The point is Harry has. The fact that you went out a couple of months ago and went through all the records(that dont have anything to do with whats happening now at Spurs) of loads of managers and compared them to harry seems to me like you're looking for things to throw at him.

 

[Lilbaz]

It doesn't take a genius to spot most good players but one thing I would congratulate Comolli on...............the guy can close out a deal.

I seem to remember Levy having to fly out a few times to get players cause Comolli couldn't make it happen. We still missed out on quite a few big names (most of them tbh) the problem is that they are the players that we are looking at now, World Class or almost that would improve our squad. Makes it difficult.

 

[Ionman34]

I don't have any problem with the players they bought,just the amounts they paid for them.

1) Suarez was relatively cheap at approx £22m......I would have paid that.
2) Adam was cheap approx £7m...I would have paid that.
3) Bellamy was a free............no brainer.

4) Henderson is a good young player and I would have paid £10/12m for him.
5) Carroll is a very good header of the ball and can muscle defenders but I wouldn't have paid more than £15m for him.
6) Always liked Stewart Downing and would have paid £15m for him.

So by my reckoning they have overpaid by about £35million..........which is a huge amount of money.
However if they qualify for the Champions League that would almost clear it.

1) Gotta agree here. 22 million was probably at the top end of his value range but he has proven worthy of it I think.

2) Again agreed. In fact I would say that 'Pool got real good value there, considering the impact Adam had on their results. TBH, I'm really surprised he went for under 10 million.

3) Bellamy may well prove to be one of those 'shit, wish we'd done that' signings.

4) Not so sure here. Henderson has always struck me as seriously overhyped, due to his nationality. IMO he's not worth more than 8 million so 'Pool have hugely overpaid there.

5) Carroll, whilst I think he would have been good with us, is not even close to being worth 35 million. To me he is a striker who is heavily reliant one the right type of service but is also relatively easy to suss out. I think he'll struggle mightily this season as defences wise up to him. He does have a bit more to his game than heading ability, but not much more. 15 mill I think is the top end of his value, 10 to 12 mill would be more realistic IMO.

6) This is the one that I disagree with hugely. I really think Downing is one of the most overrated players around. I'd put him on a par with Matty Etherington. Reasonable but not all that. Downing has been pretty ordinary since his Boro days but is currently enjoying a reasonable run of form with 'Pool. It'll fizzle out then the likes of Carroll will have an even harder time when trying to make something of crosses coming from halfway between the byeline and the halfway line! I've never rated the guy and wouldn't have paid more than we paid for Parker.

Going by that, Liverpool have overpaid by approx. 40 million.

The conclusion here is that they are gambling on CL revenue. Historically Liverpool have been massively mismanaged financially, the advent of their new owner has just given them the opportunity to do it over with a blank scorecard. They won't go the way of Leeds, but I couldn't agree more with the assertion that their Chickens will come home to roost. It appears that there is just the one CL place up for grabs, possibly two, but I don't see them as really being good enough to win either over the course of a full season. At the moment they have a, pretty much, full strength first team that has faced some fairly ordinary opposition, and they haven't really looked all that special. It took a sending off against a really mediocre goon side for them to gain the points. IOM that'll be the highlight of their season.
FFP, I believe, is going to hurt them massively if they fail to gain CL participation.

 

[Lilbaz]

1) Gotta agree here. 22 million was probably at the top end of his value range but he has proven worthy of it I think.

2) Again agreed. In fact I would say that 'Pool got real good value there, considering the impact Adam had on their results. TBH, I'm really surprised he went for under 10 million.

3) Bellamy may well prove to be one of those 'shit, wish we'd done that' signings.

4) Not so sure here. Henderson has always struck me as seriously overhyped, due to his nationality. IMO he's not worth more than 8 million so 'Pool have hugely overpaid there.

5) Carroll, whilst I think he would have been good with us, is not even close to being worth 35 million. To me he is a striker who is heavily reliant one the right type of service but is also relatively easy to suss out. I think he'll struggle mightily this season as defences wise up to him. He does have a bit more to his game than heading ability, but not much more. 15 mill I think is the top end of his value, 10 to 12 mill would be more realistic IMO.

6) This is the one that I disagree with hugely. I really think Downing is one of the most overrated players around. I'd put him on a par with Matty Etherington. Reasonable but not all that. Downing has been pretty ordinary since his Boro days but is currently enjoying a reasonable run of form with 'Pool. It'll fizzle out then the likes of Carroll will have an even harder time when trying to make something of crosses coming from halfway between the byeline and the halfway line! I've never rated the guy and wouldn't have paid more than we paid for Parker.

Going by that, Liverpool have overpaid by approx. 40 million.

The conclusion here is that they are gambling on CL revenue. Historically Liverpool have been massively mismanaged financially, the advent of their new owner has just given them the opportunity to do it over with a blank scorecard. They won't go the way of Leeds, but I couldn't agree more with the assertion that their Chickens will come home to roost. It appears that there is just the one CL place up for grabs, possibly two, but I don't see them as really being good enough to win either over the course of a full season. At the moment they have a, pretty much, full strength first team that has faced some fairly ordinary opposition, and they haven't really looked all that special. It took a sending off against a really mediocre goon side for them to gain the points. IOM that'll be the highlight of their season.
FFP, I believe, is going to hurt them massively if they fail to gain CL participation.

I can just see they headlines "Oh my God, they killed Kenny!".

 

[Ionman34]

I can just see they headlines "Oh my God, they killed Kenny!".

'You Bastards!!'

 

[sloth]

Remind me of the current good Comolli signings that would be around our best starting XI? Besides BAE, who are these hidden gems?

I think these were the Comolli signings with the one's in red still at the club:


Player Fee
Adel Taarabt £3,000,000
Ahmed Mido £4,500,000
Alan Hutton £9,000,000
Ben Alnwick £900,000
Benoit Assou-Ekotto £3,500,000
Carlo Cudicini Free
Cesar Sanchez Undisclosed
Chris Gunter £2,000,000
Danny Murphy £2,000,000
Danny Rose £1,000,000
Darren Bent £16,500,000
David Bentley £15,000,000
Didier Zokora £8,200,000
Dimitar Berbatov £10,900,000
Dorian Dervitte Signed
Gareth Bale £6,000,000
Gilberto £2,000,000
Giovani £4,700,000
Heurelho Gomes £10,000,000
John Bostock £700,000
Jonathan Woodgate £8,000,000
Kevin Boateng £5,400,000
Luka Modric £16,600,000
Pascal Chimbonda £4,500,000
Ricardo Rocha £3,300,000
Roman Pavlyuchenko £14,000,000[4]
Sted Malbranque £2,000,000
Vedran Corluka £8,500,000
Younes Kaboul Signed

Total expenditure - £148,200,000

These are the players he bought that we later sold:



Player Fee
Alan Hutton £4,000,000
Chris Gunter £1,750,000
Danny Murphy Signed
Darren Bent £10,000,000
Didier Zokora £7,750,000
Dimitar Berbatov £30,750,000
Dorian Dervite Free
Edgar Davids Free
Jonathan Woodgate Free
Kevin-Prince Boaten £4,000,000
Pascal Chimbonda £3,000,000
Steed Malbranque £7,000,000
Younes Kaboul £5,000,000
Total incoming £73,250,000

The total we paid for these players who have since been sold is:

Player Fee
Adel Taarabt £3,000,000
Alan Hutton £9,000,000
Ben Alnwick £900,000
Carlo Cudicini Free
Chris Gunter £2,000,000
Danny Murphy £2,000,000
Darren Bent £16,500,000
David Bentley £15,000,000
Didier Zokora £8,200,000
Dimitar Berbatov £10,900,000
Dorian Dervitte Signed
Gilberto £2,000,000
Jonathan Woodgate £8,000,000
Kevin Boateng £5,400,000
Pascal Chimbonda £4,500,000
Ricardo Rocha £3,300,000
Sted Malbranque £2,000,000
Total cost £92,700,000

Making a net loss over three years on player he both bought and we later sold of £19.45m

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/tottenham-hotspur-transfers.html

 

[sloth]

Sloth, do you still have the Deloitte (I think) report you posted a few months back ?

There's a number of sources, here are the ones I've bookmarked:

My thread: http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=65692

David Conn's excellent articles from the last two financial years:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/may/19/premier-league-finances
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/may/19/football-club-accounts-debt

And then there's two sources for Deloittes:

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom.../Estudios generales/Football Money League.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League

 

[sloth]

The bench would be pretty tasty though wouldn't it, Cahill, Young, Hazard, Mata, Rossi, Diarra. Maybe you forgot those players.

I didn't forget those players because they're not relevant, I included the players that would have signed for, in absolute terms, relatively low fees had Levy backed Harry. Those ones you quoted both Levy and Redknapp went for (though not sure about Hazard?) but we couldn't close the deal because they ultimately didn't want to come or were unaffordable.

I understand it very well. I know a lot of spurs fans and there's a section who are not happy unless they've got something to moan at. I see it for what it is. The best Spurs team in at least 20 years. Redknapp is the head of that team with a record that cant be argued with. Simple. Why try to stir up shit that's not there(not aimed at you necessarily, just general).

Because we don't think Redknapp's very good? And we think he was the biggest single (fixable) reason we didn't qualify for CL last year (there were others but he's the main one imo).

You haven't really brought up Ancelotti. But in regards to Coyle etc just because they might have a better record in the lower leagues(debatable) doesn't mean they would turn it on here. Each club is different. The point is Harry has. The fact that you went out a couple of months ago and went through all the records(that dont have anything to do with whats happening now at Spurs) of loads of managers and compared them to harry seems to me like you're looking for things to throw at him.

You said something along the lines of "these managers are over-rated because they've only done it at big clubs whereas Harry's had to work his way up from the bottom", I was simply pointing out that if you want a fairer comparison look at what these managers did when they were at smaller clubs. Harry's record doesn't stack up at all in that regard.

I take your point about what he's done here and that argument should not simply be dismissed. But if you're looking for the key factors for why we do well or poorly the you look for the quality of the player or person concerned. Redknapp hasn't a good pedigree, his record is worse than a David Pleat for instance, both prior to coming here and with the club and no one calls Pleat a legend. There are managers out there however with very impressive records at all levels.

I don't think we should get rid of Harry yet because I think any advantage from getting a superior manager would be outweighed by the turmoil such a regicide would cause. But I also think others should be more open to the idea that there are plenty of superior managers out there, that in fact Harry is world-class only in self-publicity and perhaps consider that rather than the rest of us being mad it may in fact be they who are blindly loyal to a man who has never earned that devotion.

Just ask his previous devoted acolytes at Portsmouth what they felt when the scales were lifted from their eyes!

 

[StartingPrice]

Sloth...wasn't Cudicini one of the first bits of business Redknapp did?

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

I didn't forget those players because they're not relevant, I included the players that would have signed for, in absolute terms, relatively low fees had Levy backed Harry. Those ones you quoted both Levy and Redknapp went for (though not sure about Hazard?) but we couldn't close the deal because they ultimately didn't want to come or were unaffordable.



Because we don't think Redknapp's very good? And we think he was the biggest single (fixable) reason we didn't qualify for CL last year (there were others but he's the main one imo).



You said something along the lines of "these managers are over-rated because they've only done it at big clubs whereas Harry's had to work his way up from the bottom", I was simply pointing out that if you want a fairer comparison look at what these managers did when they were at smaller clubs. Harry's record doesn't stack up at all in that regard.

I take your point about what he's done here and that argument should not simply be dismissed. But if you're looking for the key factors for why we do well or poorly the you look for the quality of the player or person concerned. Redknapp hasn't a good pedigree, his record is worse than a David Pleat for instance, both prior to coming here and with the club and no one calls Pleat a legend. There are managers out there however with very impressive records at all levels.

I don't think we should get rid of Harry yet because I think any advantage from getting a superior manager would be outweighed by the turmoil such a regicide would cause. But I also think others should be more open to the idea that there are plenty of superior managers out there, that in fact Harry is world-class only in self-publicity and perhaps consider that rather than the rest of us being mad it may in fact be they who are blindly loyal to a man who has never earned that devotion.

Just ask his previous devoted acolytes at Portsmouth what they felt when the scales were lifted from their eyes!

There about as relevant as the players you mentioned. Redknapp wanted to sign those players to make us better, simple as that. If we haven't got the money fair enough but then don't expect top four. I, nor you know fully what goes on behind the scenes in regard to transfers or much else for that matter. How do you know what transfers Levy was prepared to back or not. We can only judge what's here now, and it's a very good team that is difficult to be approved upon. You can go the long term route and buy 5 youngsters for smaller money and hope a couple pay off, but Spurs fans want fourth this season and the good players already here want to see the finished article coming in to show ambition. The likelihood is that he might have wanted a Bellamy(who would of been a good signing) or a parker but he also wanted a Mata, and a Cahill mixed in with that too. Youth and experience but all a certain quality. Btw not sure why you've got Upson and Crouch in there. I haven't heard anything on Upson and he was a free. Crouch we just sold, or do you think Levy's making decisions on the football side now. Because if he is, do you think that's a good thing? He's a businessman, for crying out loud.

You dont think Redknapps very good? You mean what he's shown at Spurs results wise? or you're opinion before he came that you dont want to change? Results wise in his whole time at the club is up there with the very best we've had.

My point was Ancelotti hasn't managed a club of our pulling power at the moment. He could do a great job or he could struggle with the confines the chairman puts on our managers. For some reason you've brought Coyle etc into this by comparing there lower league records with Harry's lower league records. Which makes no difference in the job that Harry's doing now for this club. It might have been a reason not employ him to begin with but it's not a reason to sack him. That was my point regarding Ancelotti.

 

[Jaydog]

I think Redknapp has a lot of parallels to the players he brought to/back to the club.

Like these players Harry is good enough to get us in and around where we would like to be but not quite good enough to get us over that hump.

What Fergie does so well is he carefully selects his backroom staff with coaches who are savvy to contemporary football. Both the tactics and training methods.

Where as Harry brings in the old boys club. Yes they are people he trusts (which very important) but I do not think any of them have any revolutionary football brains. I mean his recent tactics have been terrible, anyone could tell you that we were set up to fail but I could imagine Kevin Bond etc just being "yes" men.

 

[ohh Teddy Teddy]

Cba to read through the whole thread but heres my opinion on Redknapp.

At the time he was appointed, he was the right man, just what we needed, some english character after years of foriegners who have little character. To be fair to him, we probably progressed too quickly, and thus now we are slowly heading backwards, due to peaking too quickly, when we finished 4th, it was mostly a fluke, but we still deserved it no doubt. But going from 7th to 4th is about Harry's level IMO. Going from 4th to 3rd/2nd/1st/challengers then IMO he is not the right manager to do that.

Just my opinion anyway. and before people label me as Pro Harry/Pro Levy, i'm not, I just want the best for our club