We need a miracle

[Bobbins]

A bit of shameless self-promotion which serves to illustrate my point.

I did a little video of our 2008 Carling Cup win under Ramos quite a few years ago. I watched it almost by accident tonight (having probably not seen it since we played Chelsea in the semi a couple of years ago as a warm-up for the game) whilst trawling through other random stuff, but the feelings and memories of that day it brought back were suddenly just as strong and pretty overwhelming.

Look at the fucking joy on Keano's face at the end, see Berba's reaction as Woodgate's goal goes in, delight in Teemu taking the piss and pointing at the score, and see if you don't feel a swell of pride at watching us actually bloody win something.

I even felt a pang of affection for Ramos because he actually won some silverware for us and looked happy doing it.

I loved our CL run so much, it was incredible. But it was a one-off. Even if we got back in, we're highly unlikely to go on that kind of run in it again, meaning it'll more than likely end up being a damp squib.

I say fuck the CL (sort of, please read my previous posts in this thread before negging me) - I want to win stuff! I want more days like this!

 

[yidstreet]

Six.

1993: Arsenal 1-0 Tottenham Hotspur
1995: Everton 4-1 Tottenham Hotspuro the
1999: Newcastle 2-0 Tottenham Hotspur (AET)
2001: Arsenal 2-1 Tottenham Hotspur
2010: Portsmouth 2-0 Tottenham Hotspur
2012: Chelsea 5-1 Tottenham Hotspur

After the disatrous end to the 2011/12 season it was evident that what this club needed was a winners' mentality, it was there for all to see. For me that collapse would never happened if we had won more trophies. Since that nignt in Munich I have wished that instead of qualifying for the CL back in 2010, we had instead won the 2009 league cup final and won the FA Cup (2010). Three consecutive seasons ending with a trophy would've bred a winners mentality and I honestly believe that we would be far better off had that scenario happened.

Despite that thought two years ago I was still attracted by the lure of the CL but since that collapse and Tim's tears at the Bridge I've literally had enough of hearing about it. Hopefully for once we find the right man and this time concentrate on winning trophies.

Thanks for that... Must be more than most over that period?

 

[DiscoD1882]

Six.

1993: Arsenal 1-0 Tottenham Hotspur
1995: Everton 4-1 Tottenham Hotspuro the
1999: Newcastle 2-0 Tottenham Hotspur (AET)
2001: Arsenal 2-1 Tottenham Hotspur
2010: Portsmouth 2-0 Tottenham Hotspur
2012: Chelsea 5-1 Tottenham Hotspur

After the disatrous end to the 2011/12 season it was evident that what this club needed was a winners' mentality, it was there for all to see. For me that collapse would never happened if we had won more trophies. Since that nignt in Munich I have wished that instead of qualifying for the CL back in 2010, we had instead won the 2009 league cup final and won the FA Cup (2010). Three consecutive seasons ending with a trophy would've bred a winners mentality and I honestly believe that we would be far better off had that scenario happened.

Despite that thought two years ago I was still attracted by the lure of the CL but since that collapse and Tim's tears at the Bridge I've literally had enough of hearing about it. Hopefully for once we find the right man and this time concentrate on winning trophies.

would also b interesting to see how many semi finals and finals we have been in in Europe and carling cup and lost since then. Anyone?

 

[markieboy]

Six.

1993: Arsenal 1-0 Tottenham Hotspur
1995: Everton 4-1 Tottenham Hotspuro the
1999: Newcastle 2-0 Tottenham Hotspur (AET)
2001: Arsenal 2-1 Tottenham Hotspur
2010: Portsmouth 2-0 Tottenham Hotspur
2012: Chelsea 5-1 Tottenham Hotspur

After the disatrous end to the 2011/12 season it was evident that what this club needed was a winners' mentality, it was there for all to see. For me that collapse would never happened if we had won more trophies. Since that nignt in Munich I have wished that instead of qualifying for the CL back in 2010, we had instead won the 2009 league cup final and won the FA Cup (2010). Three consecutive seasons ending with a trophy would've bred a winners mentality and I honestly believe that we would be far better off had that scenario happened.

Despite that thought two years ago I was still attracted by the lure of the CL but since that collapse and Tim's tears at the Bridge I've literally had enough of hearing about it. Hopefully for once we find the right man and this time concentrate on winning trophies.

That list brings back some real nightmares.

 

[ginola99]

That list brings back some real nightmares.

And bring us back to reality.

We're on the brink of being left behind and in many ways we already have, just imagine if we had won even half of those semis. Seriously, if we don't start winning trophies soon then we will end up like the Evertons of this World, not down and out like Forest and Leeds but with no trophy in 19 years despite impressive league finishes on very small budgets.

Look at what Bobbins said, it's not just about a list it is about something so special, I doubt very much in 5 or 10 years time you'll see a repeat of that night in manchester where as Juande's joy is engraved into metal and will be shown again for many more years to come.

 

[Flightrisker]

The flipside being that until a few days ago Swansea, Birmingham, Boro and Portsmouth had all won more trophies than Arsenal over the last 9 seasons. I'd take CL every year myself.

 

[myhartlane]

It's Chelscum's rise that I resent most of all.

When you hear some of the old Arse legends like Ian Wright, Adams etc talk, they talk about Spurs with respect, I never hear any of that from Chelscum players past or present, they want the world to think that they are and have always been the cream of London football.

 

[worcestersauce]

history says different mate:

1997 Premier League 6th (59 points from 38 games)
1998 Premier League 4th (63 points from 38 games)
1999 Premier League 3rd (75 points from 38 games)

and FA Cup wins in 96/97 & 99/00 if memory serves

it gives me no pleasure to highlight this, but it's not just oil money is it?

I'm afraid that it is!
This success came due to them spending more money then they had and so led to them going bankcrupt, they were the first Leeds which led to them putting basically their entire squad up for sale, they sold Zola because they had to and Lampsrd was days from being the second one out and then came Abramovich days from bankcruptcy and the closure of the club entirely, to save them.
To follow their example we need to start spending money we don't have, get ourselves into crippling debt go bankcrupt and hope some rich sugar daddy comes along, some hope! All those in favour say AYE!
The problem is not the board now it was the bunch of fools in the 1980's and the financial meltdown that led to an over cautious Alan Sugar taking over.

 

[ginola99]

London trophy table

1. Arsenal 28 (13 League titles, 12 FA Cups, 2 League Cups & 1 ECWC)
2. Chelsea 21 (5 League titles, 7 FA Cups, 5 League Cups, 1 CL, 1 EL, 2 ECWC)
3. Tottenham Hotspur 17 (2 League titles, 8 FA Cups, 4 League Cups, 2 EL, 1 ECWC)
4. West Ham 4 (3 FA Cups, 1 ECWC)

The gap is now getting bigger between ourselves and those two yet people still bang on about how our No. 1 priority should be to qualify for the CL, Surely the past five years should be a lesson to us all that CL qualfication is not the magic bullet that most see it to be, we still have the pessimism and losing mentality that has festerd since the 90s.

Trophies is what eradicates a losing mentality not finishing 4th or 3rd.

 

[Spurger King]

London trophy table

1. Arsenal 28 (13 League titles, 12 FA Cups, 2 League Cups & 1 ECWC)
2. Chelsea 21 (5 League titles, 7 FA Cups, 5 League Cups, 1 CL, 1 EL, 2 ECWC)
3. Tottenham Hotspur 17 (2 League titles, 8 FA Cups, 4 League Cups, 2 EL, 1 ECWC)
4. West Ham 4 (3 FA Cups, 1 ECWC)

The gap is now getting bigger between ourselves and those two yet people still bang on about how our No. 1 priority should be to qualify for the CL, Surely the past five years should be a lesson to us all that CL qualfication is not the magic bullet that most see it to be. Trophies is what eradicates a losing mentality not finishing 4th or 3rd.

Regular CL qualification would mean more money, an increased possibility of keeping our best players, an increased possibility of attracting talented players, and would therefore increase our chances of competing for trophies.

 

[Nebby]

Couldn't give a crap what Arsenal or Chelsea win. For me football revolves around Spurs; nothing and nobody else matters.

 

[Graysonti]

Couldn't give a crap what Arsenal or Chelsea win. For me football revolves around Spurs; nothing and nobody else matters.

Bang on !

 

[haxman]

Couldn't give a crap what Arsenal or Chelsea win. For me football revolves around Spurs; nothing and nobody else matters.

Except when it was at our expense in the final. I take great pleasure in watching Chelsea lose. Which made the Capital One cup final loss that much harder to take.

 

[willy white wonka]

Our day will come just be patient, as somebody else said these things come in waves, at the moment it's arse unfortunately, having said that they've won a trophy 2 years running that isn't what it was with many clubs choosing to play sub standard teams in it these days with the league placing's now more important, unlike when we won it twice running when it was the equal of any trophy out there. Let's be honest they've hardly been tested in the finals with mighty Hull and Villa have they? Unlike us who always seem to get bloody Chelski. Our time will come, presuming Levy learns from his mistakes...

 

[npearl4spurs]

f**k it let's go win something next year.

 

[Gbspurs]

Couldn't give a crap what Arsenal or Chelsea win. For me football revolves around Spurs; nothing and nobody else matters.

Doesn't change the fact that we win fuck all.

 

[ginola99]

Regular CL qualification would mean more money, an increased possibility of keeping our best players, an increased possibility of attracting talented players, and would therefore increase our chances of competing for trophies.

Whilst you're right in one sense I feel that statement is a case of the blind leading the blind, no offence intended, honestly.

I say it because as we all know It's currently a monoply, if we did it again our rivals would do exactly the same as they did last time round (2010), flood the market with over spending just so we don't have a chance of strengthening our squad, God only knows what would've happened if VdV's move to Bayern didn't collapse. Only with an increase in capacity can regular CL football rival the vast spending, especially in wages, that can help you hold onto players, but having said that look at Arsenal they waved goodbye to Fabregas, RVP, Sagna, Song and Nasri (2011 - 2014) despite regular CL football.

Anyway, the main reason why we look competitive now is the acedamy which has involved no spend whatsoever, whilst you have top drawer players like Lloris, Eriksen and Vertonghen it has been the Kanes and Bentalebs that has got the team playing and scoring again.

Regardless as to what your main aim is in the long run you need to give your players a winning taste to help achieve it, I still believe we wouldn't have finished 4th in 2010 if we hadn't won the League Cup in 2008.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

A team capable of qualifying for CL, is capable of winning trophies. focus on the long term goal of building a squad that is competitive with the top-4, and the rest will fall into place.

That takes a winning mentality, not winning an occasional cup.

 

[ginola99]

A team capable of qualifying for CL, is capable of winning trophies. focus on the long term goal of building a squad that is competitive with the top-4, and the rest will fall into place.

That takes a winning mentality, not winning an occasional cup.

Really? So why have we stagnated the way we have, why have Napoli only won one Coppa Italia, why have Roma won nothing during their recent resurgence?

I do not buy into this 'qualify for the CL and everything else will fall into place'. You have to earn everything else in this game and thinking one thing will lead to a most wonderful domino effect is lunacy. Anyway, I'm not talking about the 'ocassional cup' nor regular CL qualification but regular trophies, the sought of success (1960 - 1973 & 1980 - 1984) that made this club what it is. Winning trophies guarantees fame and unforgettable memories, where as CL football guarantees an increase revenues and exposure, nothing else.

Regardless as to whether we qualify for the CL or not we need to start winning trophies and soon.

 

[Grey Fox]

In 1991 we lifted the FA Cup for a record 8th time. At the time there was really only two teams in London and there wasn't much between them.

London's trophy league 1991

1. Arsenal 16
2. Tottenham Hotspur 15
3. West Ham 4
4. Chelsea 3

Some 23 years later and there is hardly any pride left.

London trophy league 2014

1. Arsenal 28
2. Chelsea 19
3. Tottenham Hotspur 17
4. West Ham 4

There's so many threads on whether or not Levy is the problem or a case being put forward for a manager to take over but at this rate we need a miracle, we're being left behind. The fans are bitterly diappointed by the lack of CL football but when you look at the lack of silverware over the past 20 or so years then that really should be the last of their worries. It's as if London's football has gone the same way Portugal's did, only we are now crumbling sleeping giant that is Sporting Lisbon, with Arsenal being Benfica and Chelsea being the recently emerged power Porto.

1991 is now 23 years ago thus making this the second longest period of time in our history that we've gone without winning the FA Cup.

1. 1921 - 1960
2. 1991 -
3. 1882 - 1900
4. 1967 - 1980
5. 1982 - 1990

I could go on and on and on. It is all depressing reading and if I went on any further then the NHS would run out of Valium.

I don't believe that it is all doom and gloom but it is sobering reading for so many of us, it should make us think about what this club's ambitions should be. For me the Champions League season in 2010/11 was one of the best I've ever enjoyed, when we beat Inter and then Milan I was on cloud 9, laying awake at night half drunk thinking 'is this real, am I dreaming?' as I pinching myself to sleep. Now though it feels like a life time away. With the trophy cabinet somewhat diminishing I feel that we haven't failed in CL qualification these past years but have put all our hopes and dreams into one thing thus over looking what really matters most in football, trophies.

A lot of people talk about how important CL qualification is in terms of building something special and how it will put us back on the map, attract better players and then the rest will follow. Horse shit. We all remember the '4th place final' of 2010 up in 'Eastlands', most on here most probably thought we had hit the jackpot, what we didn't know was that all it did was delay the inevitable. As it was Man City who had hit the jackpot, not us, but they had done it two years earliar. The summer that followed Crouch's 'famous' header proved that we needed much more than just CL qualififcation

Manchester City, summer 2010 window:

​

Whilst many will argue that is how you spend £110m whilst in the Europa League you must remember the wages on show, Yaya Toure alone was reportedly on £200-250k per week and that was after tax, so Gods knows what he's on now.

At the moment we can build on the current squad, it has plenty of use, depth and still some exciting young players coming through such as bentaleb and Pritchard. Yes it isn't good enough to win the league (which is my personal goal as a Tottenham fan) nor finish in the top four but it has enough to win trophies. Whilst we need the right man in the hot seat, whilst we need to strengthen in key areas (LB, CM, ST), we need to focus on what is most important, trophies or CL football. In an ideal World we'd want both with the constant focus on CL I think we need to examine our ambitions. The competition in the league is too strong for us but in a cup anything can happen, just ask the members of our 2007/08 squad and the current Sevilla squad who had a more memorable season than Barcelona, despite losing out on CL football again.

Arsenal have ended their wait for silverware whilst ours continues (6 years), we could continue to hate Arsenal as we do or we can focus on our own ambitions. We'll never like them (of course) but we won't get anywhere just hoping they slip whilst we fail to achieve any success ourselves. They won the cup, big whoop, they're in the CL again, big whoop, and Jack Wheelchair sung some stupid song, big whoop. Whilst they're our arch rivals it is time to focus on ourselves and winning trophies.

I'll leave you with this.

Tottenham Hotspur Honours:

League Champions: 1951, 1961
FA Cup: 1901, 1921, 1961, 1962, 1967, 1981, 1982, 1991
League Cup: 1971, 1973, 1999, 2008
Europa League: 1972, 1984
European Cup Winners' Cup: 1963​

Where does it say top four?

To create a winning mentality you must win trophies. This club is obsessed with CL qualification, the only thing you should obsess over, in any sport, is being the best, nothing else.

In 1991 we lifted the FA Cup for a record 8th time. At the time there was really only two teams in London and there wasn't much between them.

London's trophy league 1991

1. Arsenal 16
2. Tottenham Hotspur 15
3. West Ham 4
4. Chelsea 3

Some 23 years later and there is hardly any pride left.

London trophy league 2014

1. Arsenal 28
2. Chelsea 19
3. Tottenham Hotspur 17
4. West Ham 4

There's so many threads on whether or not Levy is the problem or a case being put forward for a manager to take over but at this rate we need a miracle, we're being left behind. The fans are bitterly diappointed by the lack of CL football but when you look at the lack of silverware over the past 20 or so years then that really should be the last of their worries. It's as if London's football has gone the same way Portugal's did, only we are now crumbling sleeping giant that is Sporting Lisbon, with Arsenal being Benfica and Chelsea being the recently emerged power Porto.

1991 is now 23 years ago thus making this the second longest period of time in our history that we've gone without winning the FA Cup.

1. 1921 - 1960
2. 1991 -
3. 1882 - 1900
4. 1967 - 1980
5. 1982 - 1990

I could go on and on and on. It is all depressing reading and if I went on any further then the NHS would run out of Valium.

I don't believe that it is all doom and gloom but it is sobering reading for so many of us, it should make us think about what this club's ambitions should be. For me the Champions League season in 2010/11 was one of the best I've ever enjoyed, when we beat Inter and then Milan I was on cloud 9, laying awake at night half drunk thinking 'is this real, am I dreaming?' as I pinching myself to sleep. Now though it feels like a life time away. With the trophy cabinet somewhat diminishing I feel that we haven't failed in CL qualification these past years but have put all our hopes and dreams into one thing thus over looking what really matters most in football, trophies.

A lot of people talk about how important CL qualification is in terms of building something special and how it will put us back on the map, attract better players and then the rest will follow. Horse shit. We all remember the '4th place final' of 2010 up in 'Eastlands', most on here most probably thought we had hit the jackpot, what we didn't know was that all it did was delay the inevitable. As it was Man City who had hit the jackpot, not us, but they had done it two years earliar. The summer that followed Crouch's 'famous' header proved that we needed much more than just CL qualififcation

Manchester City, summer 2010 window:

​

Whilst many will argue that is how you spend £110m whilst in the Europa League you must remember the wages on show, Yaya Toure alone was reportedly on £200-250k per week and that was after tax, so Gods knows what he's on now.

At the moment we can build on the current squad, it has plenty of use, depth and still some exciting young players coming through such as bentaleb and Pritchard. Yes it isn't good enough to win the league (which is my personal goal as a Tottenham fan) nor finish in the top four but it has enough to win trophies. Whilst we need the right man in the hot seat, whilst we need to strengthen in key areas (LB, CM, ST), we need to focus on what is most important, trophies or CL football. In an ideal World we'd want both with the constant focus on CL I think we need to examine our ambitions. The competition in the league is too strong for us but in a cup anything can happen, just ask the members of our 2007/08 squad and the current Sevilla squad who had a more memorable season than Barcelona, despite losing out on CL football again.

Arsenal have ended their wait for silverware whilst ours continues (6 years), we could continue to hate Arsenal as we do or we can focus on our own ambitions. We'll never like them (of course) but we won't get anywhere just hoping they slip whilst we fail to achieve any success ourselves. They won the cup, big whoop, they're in the CL again, big whoop, and Jack Wheelchair sung some stupid song, big whoop. Whilst they're our arch rivals it is time to focus on ourselves and winning trophies.

I'll leave you with this.

Tottenham Hotspur Honours:

League Champions: 1951, 1961
FA Cup: 1901, 1921, 1961, 1962, 1967, 1981, 1982, 1991
League Cup: 1971, 1973, 1999, 2008
Europa League: 1972, 1984
European Cup Winners' Cup: 1963​

Where does it say top four?

To create a winning mentality you must win trophies. This club is obsessed with CL qualification, the only thing you should obsess over, in any sport, is being the best, nothing else.

This is the post of 2015, I am of the generation that you entered competitions to win and I just don't understand the mentality of wanting to come third runners up above having a trophy in the cabinet.

Think of any other sport and I guarantee no one remembers who finishes second let alone fourth, we have become slaves to Uefa and a competition that has the most misleading title of any I can think of, should be called Champions and also runs league