Tottenham Takeover Talk

[Stuart Leathercock]

You mean buying failing assets at cut prices and then letting them run into the ground, dealing with protests against poor working conditions and safety by buying his workers rights off them, keeping all base of operations and homes in tax havens whilst campaigning for brexit, sinking money into vanity projects like Belstaff, the Grenadier, etc etc. He was considered the richest man in the Times for a year, before they changed how they calculated accumulated wealth or something.

I'm not going to go into details. Suffice to say his wealth is down less to business acumen, and more to being a mean bastard. The dude is Mr Burns.

Oh, and the working class/council estate angle that gets used for these guys is tedious. Everyone was working class and lived in a council estate before the whole right to buy and aspiration bullshit in the 80s. Using it as some sort of handicap, like we should all be impressed that one of us serfs managed to do well, is really patronising.

Yep.... A brilliant businessman. If it was so easy to buy failing assets and run them into the ground making a profit along the way then why wasn't everyone doing it? You may disagree with the way that he has made his money but he started with nothing and accumulated about $20billion of wealth. Richest man for a year/second richest/top 5 richest.... Whatever!... it merely evidences that he can only be a brilliant business man. Mean SoB, absolutely, but I know lots of mean SoBs, none of which went from nothing to $20billion.

FWIW - I grew up before the 80s and didn't grow up on a council estate (though I did have working class parents). The fact that he was able to make a fortune of about $20 billion, starting from his reasonably humble beginnings is remarkable mate. I really do find it strange how anyone could disagree with that.

 

[AllSeeingEye]

Good post but surely ENIC have not invested in the stadium? It’s all debt serviced by revenue, right?

I believe the loan was around 64% of the financing required for the project initially (total cost apx 1bn) and I think Goldmans were the bookrunner. The repayments were due around 2yrs after it closed, and so there has been a bond scheme acquiring investment to reduce that off, and minimise interest risk (switching fixed rate for floating) and convert it into longer tenors (some of which are 15 and 30 years so not repayable in the near future). Some of it was refinanced by Merrill and HSBC - around 50% which continues to be serviced by revenue as you say. That whole scheme brought external investment to around 84% or thereabouts of the original cost which implies that the club funded the gap. I could be wrong but seems most plausible given the results and reports prior to the stadium being built.

 

[nferno]

I believe the loan was around 64% of the financing required for the project initially (total cost apx 1bn) and I think Goldmans were the bookrunner. The repayments were due around 2yrs after it closed, and so there has been a bond scheme acquiring investment to reduce that off, and minimise interest risk (switching fixed rate for floating) and convert it into longer tenors (some of which are 15 and 30 years so not repayable in the near future). Some of it was refinanced by Merrill and HSBC - around 50% which continues to be serviced by revenue as you say. That whole scheme brought external investment to around 84% or thereabouts of the original cost which implies that the club funded the gap. I could be wrong but seems most plausible given the results and reports prior to the stadium being built.

we talking shop lads?

 

[AllSeeingEye]

we talking shop lads?

Hell yeah. Love to talk shop.

 

[Stuart Leathercock]

I believe the loan was around 64% of the financing required for the project initially (total cost apx 1bn) and I think Goldmans were the bookrunner. The repayments were due around 2yrs after it closed, and so there has been a bond scheme acquiring investment to reduce that off, and minimise interest risk (switching fixed rate for floating) and convert it into longer tenors (some of which are 15 and 30 years so not repayable in the near future). Some of it was refinanced by Merrill and HSBC - around 50% which continues to be serviced by revenue as you say. That whole scheme brought external investment to around 84% or thereabouts of the original cost which implies that the club funded the gap. I could be wrong but seems most plausible given the results and reports prior to the stadium being built.

That's correct, the remaining funds came out of surpluses the club had made on the playing side of things

 

[thebenjamin]

Based on the Man U sale, glaziers want £5/6 billion.

Punchy for a bit of glasswork

 

[Gassin's finest]

Yep.... A brilliant businessman. If it was so easy to buy failing assets and run them into the ground making a profit along the way then why wasn't everyone doing it? You may disagree with the way that he has made his money but he started with nothing and accumulated about $20billion of wealth. Richest man for a year/second richest/top 5 richest.... Whatever!... it merely evidences that he can only be a brilliant business man. Mean SoB, absolutely, but I know lots of mean SoBs, none of which went from nothing to $20billion.

FWIW - I grew up before the 80s and didn't grow up on a council estate (though I did have working class parents). The fact that he was able to make a fortune of about $20 billion, starting from his reasonably humble beginnings is remarkable mate. I really do find it strange how anyone could disagree with that.

Lets just say I have my reasons when it comes to this, INEOS won't be buying any Premier League club, and we leave it there.

 

[Razorspur]

Usually due diligence on a business takes 4 to 6 weeks - so timing depends on when DL and QSI started talking and when they started looking at our books - also another thing to note is the level of debt and cash on balance sheet affects the equity value on which QSI is investing - think of equity value as the value of the house that is yours after you pay off mortgage - equity value may get affected if our cash position changes which may well be the case when transfer deals are done - so it may be that we only do the transfers on the last day but the deal with QSI signed the night before - let’s see how this pans out …

or who knows the QSI deal might already be dead

 

[Rogmeister]

Fuck me, nerd alerts

 

[daryl hannah]

I believe the loan was around 64% of the financing required for the project initially (total cost apx 1bn) and I think Goldmans were the bookrunner. The repayments were due around 2yrs after it closed, and so there has been a bond scheme acquiring investment to reduce that off, and minimise interest risk (switching fixed rate for floating) and convert it into longer tenors (some of which are 15 and 30 years so not repayable in the near future). Some of it was refinanced by Merrill and HSBC - around 50% which continues to be serviced by revenue as you say. That whole scheme brought external investment to around 84% or thereabouts of the original cost which implies that the club funded the gap. I could be wrong but seems most plausible given the results and reports prior to the stadium being built.

Yes. Swiss Ramble showed that around £400m accumulated by Tottenham Hotspur Football Club (that might have been spent on players) went on the initial stadium payments. So they haven’t put ENIC’s capital in - it’s all come from the club.

This is why we seemingly operated a zero net spend for years and years.

I’m sure some will point out that THFC revenue IS ENIC’s capital.

 

[Navy Spur]

I believe the loan was around 64% of the financing required for the project initially (total cost apx 1bn) and I think Goldmans were the bookrunner. The repayments were due around 2yrs after it closed, and so there has been a bond scheme acquiring investment to reduce that off, and minimise interest risk (switching fixed rate for floating) and convert it into longer tenors (some of which are 15 and 30 years so not repayable in the near future). Some of it was refinanced by Merrill and HSBC - around 50% which continues to be serviced by revenue as you say. That whole scheme brought external investment to around 84% or thereabouts of the original cost which implies that the club funded the gap. I could be wrong but seems most plausible given the results and reports prior to the stadium being built.

What he said ?

 

[the yid]

I believe the loan was around 64% of the financing required for the project initially (total cost apx 1bn) and I think Goldmans were the bookrunner. The repayments were due around 2yrs after it closed, and so there has been a bond scheme acquiring investment to reduce that off, and minimise interest risk (switching fixed rate for floating) and convert it into longer tenors (some of which are 15 and 30 years so not repayable in the near future). Some of it was refinanced by Merrill and HSBC - around 50% which continues to be serviced by revenue as you say. That whole scheme brought external investment to around 84% or thereabouts of the original cost which implies that the club funded the gap. I could be wrong but seems most plausible given the results and reports prior to the stadium being built.

My wife deals with the numbers my calculators broken

 

[spursfan77]

Qataris know that our operating income and revenue has dropped (the report for YE Jun 21 was 40m less than previous year and the previous year was 60m less than 2019), they also know that our debt is pretty big (1.1bn in liabilities as at that same report for YE Jun 21), that will be a major factor in their valuation. Levy would argue that selling now as opposed to 5yrs down the line is going to leave ENIC out of pocket having just made the biggest investment on the stadium - why sell your house you just bought in the middle of a crash when you've paid out to have it done up? The finances need rebalancing quite a bit - and Levy, as we know, is super sensitive about keeping things afloat ahead of headlong rushes into financial oblivion, he's taken massive risks over last few years and they've paid off with CL qualification but he is all too aware that balance is needed and so transfer policy and wage structure can often appear to be anti and not in the best interest of getting silverware or appeasing the ever expectant fans. That sort of stress is dripping through the club and is bound to be affecting players and staff alike. But let's not get depressed, this is a very interesting crossroads and one which is starting to add up with this story gaining traction over last few days and we shouldn't be beating Levy over the head over perceived tightfistedness when the signs given all point to him actually moving us in the right direction re future investment.

Worth noting that previously the club Ordinary (designated type A) shareholding was divided into around 807827 parts (valued at £1.00 each) but that has now been converted into 20 times the number of shares (valued at £0.05 each) . Type A Ordinary shares are not controlling stake shares, they don't allow voting rights to holders, or dividends. What does this mean? It could mean that shares are being prepped to be traded at lower level by those that are in the driving seat for sale of investment grade shareholdings, which could indicate the presence of an imminent investment opportunity and thereby a profitable uplift in the value of those shares. Also... John Turner, appointed a few years back (2020) is a specialist in investment and most prominently on sales, Turner is a founder and copresident of Qatalyst overseeing consumer technology and software banking. He previously worked for Credit Suisse. He advised Tumblr on its sale to Yahoo, Twitch on its sale to Amazon, Xoom on its sale to PayPal, and Autonomy on its sale to HP. Also, as Lewis stepped back end of last year he left his daughter a significant controlling share (keeping it in the family - also indicating a shareholding worth having) and also a Bahamian lawyer (who is potentially on board now to scrutinize and veto). Everything is shaping up for a sale imho and with that some major naming rights issue - we've got names that mix in with the very top of the business tree linked to some very well known GMNCs.

Now... whether that means we sell to Qataris is another issue, what do Qataris want, and are they a good fit for a club that is famed for Jewish roots, and more recently inclusivity and championing of the Pride movement, and other progressive attitudes? I would hope we take a good long look at it rather than rush in like FIFA did with the WC bid. Are they to be trusted? This is where the discussion and investigations should be going, not whether Levy is or isn't holding us back, which i think from the points above, show otherwise.

Thanks for your middle paragraph I’ve been wanting the documents put in companies house in December explained. One error though I’ve bolded. Lewis’s daughter doesn’t have a controlling stake. She could be a potential beneficiary of a discretionary trust. Legally at this second in time she’s not entitled to any of the club. Lewis can direct the trustees in a letter of wishes as to who and what is done with the club. However it’s not a legally binding document so the trustees don’t have to follow it.

 

[Rosco1984]

The ENIC thread is locked, so I'm guessing this is the best place to ask. Can someone please explain this thing to me about the club's financials being withheld till February because it can compromise the club? In what way can the club be compromised? This is in relational to the questions posed to the board by the THST as well, cause the club postponed answering them till after the financials are released. What's the story behind the whole withholding of the financials?

Why is it so dangerous to release the financials now? Who's out to get us and how can this be of benefit to them?

there is clearly something happening or with the potential to happen that could be compromised if we release that sort of information now.

QSI weren't in our lodge for 3+ days whatever it was because Mourinho recommended the pillows.

 

[Greybeard]

there is clearly something happening or with the potential to happen that could be compromised if we release that sort of information now.

QSI weren't in our lodge for 3+ days whatever it was because Mourinho recommended the pillows.

We can only hope!

 

[Clockspur]

Conte was supposed to be Levy’s last throw of the dice, but the bald faaaack has found one more throw - bring us Qatari billions and you get to limp on Daniel.

Can you imagine if a deal gets scuppered because Levy insists on remaining as chairman

faaack me I hate that bald priick so much, it consumes every other thought, I’m losing the plot with how much of a walloping knob end I think he is. Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack

 

[phil]

Qataris know that our operating income and revenue has dropped (the report for YE Jun 21 was 40m less than previous year and the previous year was 60m less than 2019), they also know that our debt is pretty big (1.1bn in liabilities as at that same report for YE Jun 21), that will be a major factor in their valuation. Levy would argue that selling now as opposed to 5yrs down the line is going to leave ENIC out of pocket having just made the biggest investment on the stadium - why sell your house you just bought in the middle of a crash when you've paid out to have it done up? The finances need rebalancing quite a bit - and Levy, as we know, is super sensitive about keeping things afloat ahead of headlong rushes into financial oblivion, he's taken massive risks over last few years and they've paid off with CL qualification but he is all too aware that balance is needed and so transfer policy and wage structure can often appear to be anti and not in the best interest of getting silverware or appeasing the ever expectant fans. That sort of stress is dripping through the club and is bound to be affecting players and staff alike. But let's not get depressed, this is a very interesting crossroads and one which is starting to add up with this story gaining traction over last few days and we shouldn't be beating Levy over the head over perceived tightfistedness when the signs given all point to him actually moving us in the right direction re future investment.

Worth noting that previously the club Ordinary (designated type A) shareholding was divided into around 807827 parts (valued at £1.00 each) but that has now been converted into 20 times the number of shares (valued at £0.05 each) . Type A Ordinary shares are not controlling stake shares, they don't allow voting rights to holders, or dividends. What does this mean? It could mean that shares are being prepped to be traded at lower level by those that are in the driving seat for sale of investment grade shareholdings, which could indicate the presence of an imminent investment opportunity and thereby a profitable uplift in the value of those shares. Also... John Turner, appointed a few years back (2020) is a specialist in investment and most prominently on sales, Turner is a founder and copresident of Qatalyst overseeing consumer technology and software banking. He previously worked for Credit Suisse. He advised Tumblr on its sale to Yahoo, Twitch on its sale to Amazon, Xoom on its sale to PayPal, and Autonomy on its sale to HP. Also, as Lewis stepped back end of last year he left his daughter a significant controlling share (keeping it in the family - also indicating a shareholding worth having) and also a Bahamian lawyer (who is potentially on board now to scrutinize and veto). Everything is shaping up for a sale imho and with that some major naming rights issue - we've got names that mix in with the very top of the business tree linked to some very well known GMNCs.

Now... whether that means we sell to Qataris is another issue, what do Qataris want, and are they a good fit for a club that is famed for Jewish roots, and more recently inclusivity and championing of the Pride movement, and other progressive attitudes? I would hope we take a good long look at it rather than rush in like FIFA did with the WC bid. Are they to be trusted? This is where the discussion and investigations should be going, not whether Levy is or isn't holding us back, which i think from the points above, show otherwise.

I think there are some inaccuracies in your post.

Firstly, ENIC did not fund the building of the stadium. They may have provided short-term loans or provided financial guarantees; but Tottenham Hotspur are the debtor, not ENIC.

With regards to your second paragraph, this is plainly wrong. I am a minority shareholder and have been since the original IPO. In the early days after the ENIC takeover, Tottenham raised capital by issuing Preference Shares which were convertible to ordinary shares. Shareholders could purchase one Preference Share for every 75 ordinary shares held (IIRC). ENIC underwrote the issue that enabled them to increase their holding from c40% to 85% (many shareholders chose not the subscribe to the issue). Subsequently the Preference Shares were converted to Ordinary Shares (thus increasing the number of shares issued). I believe this is where you have got confused.

Last May, ENIC put in (up to) £150m, in return for which Tottenham issued a Convertible Share that will in the future convert to Ordinary shares. There are no voting rights with the Convertible Share. All voting tights are with the Ordinary Shares.

 

[Booney]

Very disappointed to see this thread descend into detailed and informative discussion about a potential takeover.

Much preferred it when we were discussing our right backs from 5 years ago.

 

[EastLondonYid]

Qatar group didn't go to the training ground as planned on Saturday.
Don't know why.
All I know,levy has prepared us to be massive, put everything in place,but can't achieve it.
Time for him to do the right thing, but he won't
Because he is a greedy ****.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

Qatar group didn't go to the training ground as planned on Saturday.
Don't know why.
All I know,levy has taken prepared us to be massive, but can't achieve it.
Time for him to do the right thing, but he won't
Because he is a greedy ****.

Other ITK’s said they where there for 3 days. I assume that is not the sat then.