The Summer 2024 scouting thread

[Ghost Hardware]

Yeah I'm aware of Juve's interest but honestly think we could beat them out if we go for him, assuming we get Champions League.

He'd give us serious tactical flexibility as he's able to play comfortably in all three midfield roles while also being a style of player that we're currently severely lacking i.e. someone who can sling passes all over the pitch from range.



With the talk of our interest in going big for a midfielder, I'd personally be surprised if we're not one of the prem teams interested

Could be, Liverpool are supposedly one of them and I could imagine Newcastle sniffing around. We apparently have interest in Ederson so i'm sure we will have been looking at Koopmeiners as well. Ether way it will be interesting which sort of CM/DM we go for. I know Koopmeiners can play in a few different positions in midfield but AM certainly seems to be the role that has suited him best this season so can't really see him being brought in to play DM, if that is what we decide to look for of course.

Realistically one could probably make an argument for needing a DM and an AM depending on who leaves this summer of course. I struggle to see that happening tho, maybe if one is a younger prospect player and the other is more established.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Follows on your previous point @Ghost Hardware

Going off that response he probably knows there is Prem interest in him. Very diplomatic answer. Unless Allegri goes I think there is very little chance he will have much future there. Problem is he just doesn't have place in the current system and Juve need money. I mean he was even played as WB once or maybe twice last season...

This is a clips from his game against Lazio last weekend. By his standards it was a fairly standard performance, nothing particularly special but what i love about him is he is always looking to be positive and get the ball forward. He is pretty much the creative hub for his team who will often look to him to open teams up due to his excellent vision. His passing ability is really good for someone so young, the pass at 1.54 is a perfect example of his passing range. This is something he will pull of almost every game for Frosinone, not just here and there. Wherever he goes he is an extremely exiting talent IMO.

 

[Now it's Spursonal]

Could be, Liverpool are supposedly one of them and I could imagine Newcastle sniffing around. We apparently have interest in Ederson so i'm sure we will have been looking at Koopmeiners as well. Ether way it will be interesting which sort of CM/DM we go for. I know Koopmeiners can play in a few different positions in midfield but AM certainly seems to be the role that has suited him best this season so can't really see him being brought in to play DM, if that is what we decide to look for of course.

Realistically one could probably make an argument for needing a DM and an AM depending on who leaves this summer of course. I struggle to see that happening tho, maybe if one is a younger prospect player and the other is more established.

Yeah he’s really striving this year as an AM but I think that just goes to show how good of an all round player he is.

In his AZ Alkmaar days though he showed that he was a super strong DM aswell, I can even remember at the time reading an article saying that his per 90 defensive stats (Tackles+Interceptions) were comparable to Casemiro and Kimmich.

Mentioned it in my original post about him too, but he actually even played games as a CB in a Libero type role which drew him comparisons with Beckenbauer at the time.

He’s just such an interesting/unique profile of player, which I’ll admit I always have a soft spot for so maybe I’m being too biased, but I do genuinely think he could be transformative for us.

Edit: You can’t really get an idea for his DM play watching his live matches now, but try and look back at some of his Alkmaar performances.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Yeah he’s really striving this year as an AM but I think that just goes to show how good of an all round player he is.

In his AZ Alkmaar days though he showed that he was a super strong DM aswell, I can even remember at the time reading an article saying that his per 90 defensive stats (Tackles+Interceptions) were comparable to Casemiro and Kimmich.

Mentioned it in my original post about him too, but he actually even played games as a CB in a Libero type role which drew him comparisons with Beckenbauer at the time.

He’s just such an interesting/unique profile of player, which I’ll admit I always have a soft spot for so maybe I’m being too biased, but I do genuinely think he could be transformative for us.

Edit: You can’t really get an idea for his DM play watching his live matches now, but try and look back at some of his Alkmaar performances.

Yeah I remember watching him at AZ. There were a few English clubs linked to him at the time. He also played DM a lot for Atalanta last season. As you say he is very good in a lot of the key areas for a DM. I still wonder if he will be move back there after this season tho as he seems to have really clicked further forward. Ether way it will be interesting to see where he ends up.

 

[King of the Lane]

@Ghost Hardware have you seen much of Zirkzee? He is starting to get linked to us.

 

[Now it's Spursonal]

@Ghost Hardware have you seen much of Zirkzee? He is starting to get linked to us.

Won’t be able to put it as succinctly as @Ghost Hardware normally does so I won’t go into much detail about him, but I’ve watched a lot of Bologna this year so can provide a bit of information.

Zirkzee is a very stylish/classy player with top level hold up play and link up passing. I’d say in this respect he’s probably a more ‘skilful/tricky’ version of Kane.

However, this is where the comparison ends because he’s nowhere close to being as good of a goalscorer as Kane is, whether that be down to his finishing with both feet, his heading or even just his general innate ‘nose’ for a goal.

Zirkzee is a style of player that I love, as he’s great on the eye and will get you off your feet 2/3 times a game so I would be very happy to sign him. When I watch him he reminds me of 6’3 version of Firmino, which is obviously quite good.

In saying that though, I personally would be surprised if we go for him as to me he would be a massive breakaway from the style of striker Ange has always gone for previously i.e. an out an out goalscorer who thrives in the box rather than outside it.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

@Ghost Hardware have you seen much of Zirkzee? He is starting to get linked to us.

Yeah I have, interesting player. He isn't really your atypical no 9. He is more a deep lying forward or a false 9 in style of play. He tends to drop deep and sit in front of the opposition back line rather then run in behind. He likes to get involved in the build up and his hold up/link up play is one of his biggest strengths. Its where he shines most, dropping deep to pick up the ball between the lines then setting things in motion in the final third. He has solid technique and is capable of moving past defenders with a clever touch or shift of balance when pressed but he can also loose possession by trying to be too cute. Inside the box he is good at finding pockets of space off the shoulder of the defender and can cause problems. Out of possession He is also a hard worker and will press the opposition. He is a good tackler for a CF and will get the ball back.

All that being said I think it would be a big mistake to get him. He really isn't suited to the CF role in this system at all IMO. Really he would suit a system like Inter where he would be in a CF 2. If they were to sell Lautaro then they could have Zirkzee and Thuram running ahead of him. Zirkzee isn't particularly quick so needs fast players around him to utilise with his very good lay offs. If we played Son and Johnson as IF cutting in with Udogie and Porro overlapping than he could also be a very good asset but that would require a complete tactical overhaul. Its also worth keeping in mind that although he drops deep and is excellent in link up play he doesn't have the passing or vision of a playmaker so you wouldn't want to view him as such. Finally, he just isn't a very good finisher, he can be very erratic and I feel he needs to work on refining his shooting technique.

All in all, he is a good player but needs to be in the right system. He has some very unique characteristics and in the right team I think he could be an incredible asset, he is still very young also so will improve. I just think for us he will never adapt into the kind of player we need in that system. Bellow you can see a video from a game against Juve. Take note of his positioning and role he plays, that is pretty much what you get with him.

 

[rabbikeane]

Matias Soulé U23 goal against Mexico

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Matias Soulé U23 goal against Mexico

Very impressive technique. I know some are on the fence and I can understand the reservations were he to be our only WF addition but man would I love to see him at the club. Even if brought him in as a AM. Such a quality player.

 

[spurs9]

Yeah I have, interesting player. He isn't really your atypical no 9. He is more a deep lying forward or a false 9 in style of play. He tends to drop deep and sit in front of the opposition back line rather then run in behind. He likes to get involved in the build up and his hold up/link up play is one of his biggest strengths. Its where he shines most, dropping deep to pick up the ball between the lines then setting things in motion in the final third. He has solid technique and is capable of moving past defenders with a clever touch or shift of balance when pressed but he can also loose possession by trying to be too cute. Inside the box he is good at finding pockets of space off the shoulder of the defender and can cause problems. Out of possession He is also a hard worker and will press the opposition. He is a good tackler for a CF and will get the ball back.

All that being said I think it would be a big mistake to get him. He really isn't suited to the CF role in this system at all IMO. Really he would suit a system like Inter where he would be in a CF 2. If they were to sell Lautaro then they could have Zirkzee and Thuram running ahead of him. Zirkzee isn't particularly quick so needs fast players around him to utilise with his very good lay offs. If we played Son and Johnson as IF cutting in with Udogie and Porro overlapping than he could also be a very good asset but that would require a complete tactical overhaul. Its also worth keeping in mind that although he drops deep and is excellent in link up play he doesn't have the passing or vision of a playmaker so you wouldn't want to view him as such. Finally, he just isn't a very good finisher, he can be very erratic and I feel he needs to work on refining his shooting technique.

All in all, he is a good player but needs to be in the right system. He has some very unique characteristics and in the right team I think he could be an incredible asset, he is still very young also so will improve. I just think for us he will never adapt into the kind of player we need in that system. Bellow you can see a video from a game against Juve. Take note of his positioning and role he plays, that is pretty much what you get with him.

Last summer, I would have agreed that Zirkzee (based on his time at Bologna) wasn't suited, but whether it's because we haven't fully adapted to Ange's tactics, haven't got the right style of winger or just because the EPL is a different beast to the SPL, I'm no longer sure a "fox in the box" type is suited to us.

There have been many times this season that, IMO, we could have benefited from Zirkzee's hold up play, ability to turn defenders and his passing and vision.

I actually think he is dropping back so often because Bologna have sod all creativity in the team (like Kane under Jose and Conte). If you watch him at Anderlecht, he was often on the shoulder of the last man and many of his goals were from cut backs from the byline, so he could actually be an ideal option.

Also, in regards to his poor finishing, he is outperforming his xG this season and at Anderlecht, he outperformed it to Son/Kane levels.

On the negative side, in that video of Kompany doing the angry rant/team talk at Anderlecht, that was posted on here when we were mangerless, Zirkzee was a player singled out for his attitude.

 

[Now it's Spursonal]

Last summer, I would have agreed that Zirkzee (based on his time at Bologna) wasn't suited, but whether it's because we haven't fully adapted to Ange's tactics, haven't got the right style of winger or just because the EPL is a different beast to the SPL, I'm no longer sure a "fox in the box" type is suited to us.

There have been many times this season that, IMO, we could have benefited from Zirkzee's hold up play, ability to turn defenders and his passing and vision.

I actually think he is dropping back so often because Bologna have sod all creativity in the team (like Kane under Jose and Conte). If you watch him at Anderlecht, he was often on the shoulder of the last man and many of his goals were from cut backs from the byline, so he could actually be an ideal option.

Also, in regards to his poor finishing, he is outperforming his xG this season and at Anderlecht, he outperformed it to Son/Kane levels.

On the negative side, in that video of Kompany doing the angry rant/team talk at Anderlecht, that was posted on here when we were mangerless, Zirkzee was a player singled out for his attitude.

Very interesting stuff mate.

I’d probably slightly disagree on the reason why Zirkzee is dropping deep as despite the teams lack of creativity I think Motta has them well drilled enough in getting them to progress the ball forward, through the likes of Calafiori and Ferguson.

Purely guessing on my part, but I’d be guessing it’s caused by his first time feeling ‘main-man syndrome’. As he’s the clear and obvious main man now at Bologna, he’s after giving himself a bit of tactical freedom to do as he wants.

Kane also went through this period and although it was a tactical decision under Mourinho, it definitely wasn’t under Conte.

The stuff you were saying about his play at Anderlecht is very interesting though as I never would have seen him.
If he was constantly scoring first touch goals from cutbacks, then that’s obviously our bread and butter now so would be perfect.

The xG over-performance is also very interesting because I never would’ve guessed it.
And over performance of the xG metric, for all it’s frailties, is actually a very good sign of a good finisher.

The mindset issue you then mention with Kompany also comes at a bit of a surprise as he’s been a tireless workhorse on the field for Bologna this season which obviously Ange would love aswell.

But if there is an off-field mindset issue with him, then that’s something you’d assume Ange would sniff out through talking to him and would likely rule him out again.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

Very impressive technique. I know some are on the fence and I can understand the reservations were he to be our only WF addition but man would I love to see him at the club. Even if brought him in as a AM. Such a quality player.

He looks an amazing talent. I just don’t see where he fits because he isn’t a winger.

As you say he’d have to play AM but would he have the defensive nous and tenacity to play in a midfield 3 for us? And would we spend the money on him when we need wingers, a 6, 2 FBs, possibly a striker etc.

If we were playing Poch style 4231 with overlapping fullbacks I’d be all over him for what it’s worth.

 

[spurs9]

Very interesting stuff mate.

I’d probably slightly disagree on the reason why Zirkzee is dropping deep as despite the teams lack of creativity I think Motta has them well drilled enough in getting them to progress the ball forward, through the likes of Calafiori and Ferguson.

Purely guessing on my part, but I’d be guessing it’s caused by his first time feeling ‘main-man syndrome’. As he’s the clear and obvious main man now at Bologna, he’s after giving himself a bit of tactical freedom to do as he wants.

Kane also went through this period and although it was a tactical decision under Mourinho, it definitely wasn’t under Conte.

The stuff you were saying about his play at Anderlecht is very interesting though as I never would have seen him.
If he was constantly scoring first touch goals from cutbacks, then that’s obviously our bread and butter now so would be perfect.

The xG over-performance is also very interesting because I never would’ve guessed it.
And over performance of the xG metric, for all it’s frailties, is actually a very good sign of a good finisher.

The mindset issue you then mention with Kompany also comes at a bit of a surprise as he’s been a tireless workhorse on the field for Bologna this season which obviously Ange would love aswell.

But if there is an off-field mindset issue with him, then that’s something you’d assume Ange would sniff out through talking to him and would likely rule him out again.

They really aren't great at progressing the ball forward. None of there regular starters in CM or CB are in a higher percentile in their relative positions for progressive passes than 54th. For comparison, we don have a player that is a regular starter in any of those positions that is under the 69th percentile.

From the Kompany clip, it seemed to be his attitude to being subbed.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Last summer, I would have agreed that Zirkzee (based on his time at Bologna) wasn't suited, but whether it's because we haven't fully adapted to Ange's tactics, haven't got the right style of winger or just because the EPL is a different beast to the SPL, I'm no longer sure a "fox in the box" type is suited to us.

There have been many times this season that, IMO, we could have benefited from Zirkzee's hold up play, ability to turn defenders and his passing and vision.

I actually think he is dropping back so often because Bologna have sod all creativity in the team (like Kane under Jose and Conte). If you watch him at Anderlecht, he was often on the shoulder of the last man and many of his goals were from cut backs from the byline, so he could actually be an ideal option.

Also, in regards to his poor finishing, he is outperforming his xG this season and at Anderlecht, he outperformed it to Son/Kane levels.

On the negative side, in that video of Kompany doing the angry rant/team talk at Anderlecht, that was posted on here when we were mangerless, Zirkzee was a player singled out for his attitude.

I just don’t see him as a good fit personally. You are right that hold up play for our CF is a very helpful asset and you can see the benefits it offers when Richy plays who has really improved that part of his game. It’s certainly something we miss when we start Son as he just isn’t that sort of player. I do wonder tho if we had more imposing wingers then it wouldn’t be so needed.

One has to remember that Kompany mostly played a 442 the season Zirkzee was there switching from a 433/442 mix in his previous season. I know it was more of a 352 in effect but it was still a 2 striker system with Christian Kouame taking up the other CF spot. As I said in my original post this is probably where Zirkzee will thrive most, in this sort of set up as it allows him more freedom. It’s why I suggested Inter would potentially be a good move for him if Lautaro were to leave as I could see him developing a good partnership with Thuram who is quick and likes to push defences.

Even at Anderlect Zirkzee was never one to really run in behind regularly. He did do it from time to time but I remember watching him there and from what I recall he would still come short a lot or look for pockets of space in front of the back line or out wide in order to give space to Kouame. A lot of one touch lay offs to the attacking players. He was a key cog in Komoany’s attacking system for sure due to clever positioning and off the ball movement.

You’re right that he did sit a bit higher and run across the line more then he does at Bologna but his game was still very heavily based around interlinking the attack and as I said having another CF gave him more freedom. He wasn’t the sole focus.

As I said in my original post he does have good movement in the box and in general he’s very good at picking up pockets of space to receive the ball, it’s what makes his hold up play so good. But when he does pick up these pockets deeper he just doesn’t have the acceleration to turn and push the back line after a lay of so often stays deep. He is a physically strong runner tho which helps but still. Not that pace is everything but his instincts have never really been to run In behind. Lautaro as a solid example of a slower player who has good hold up play but after he offloads looks to push the back line rather then sitting deeper and make late runs into the box which is what Zirkzee does often.

If we changed our system tactically then as I said I could see an argument for getting him. The issue is tho our WF who are designated with staying wide and holding the width. This is where I see a fundamental miss match. Ether we would need to change our tactics so the wide players come more central and closer to the CF or try to change Zirkzee’s style of play. Neither of which is ideal and I’m really not convinced Zirkzee would be able to adapt into the player we would need him to be in the current set up. Some aspects would fit, others wouldn’t.

As a forward profile someone like Vlahovic I see as a much better fit for our system IMO. (Yes I know he also plays in a 2 up top but both Chiesa and Yildiz tend to drift to the wing position a lot leaving him alone up top). Someone who is good at holding up the ball when needed but also fast and good at stretching defences. He’s also a big areal threat in the box, something Zirkzee really isn’t despite his size. If he didn’t have such question marks around his injuries I’d say Vlahovic should be right at the top of our striker search but in regards to profile he is what we should be looking for imo.

As for xg I mean if you watch him he just does not convince as a technically astute finisher. His positioning is good when he gets into the box but I just don’t think he’s a particularly convincing striker of the ball regardless what the xg says. From what I remember from his time at Anderlecht a number of his goals were from deflections or errors by the defence essentially leading to an open goal rather than a finessed finish which highlights his good positioning more then his striking ability. He did score a great overhead kick for Anderlecht tho i remember to be fair to him, but still even that was from a deflection I think… which probably makes it more impressive actually. Anyway pretty much every report i have read on him dating back to his time at BM highlights finishing as a weakness so i don’t feel I’m alone on this.

As I said he is a good player and could be an excellent one in the right system I just disagree that he would be a good fit for ours currently. If we got him ether he or the team would need to change tactically. He looks an exciting prospect who could well have a bright future but he will need the right team set up around him in order to make the most of his unique skill set. His link up play aside I struggle to see it being a good fit at all.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

He looks an amazing talent. I just don’t see where he fits because he isn’t a winger.

As you say he’d have to play AM but would he have the defensive nous and tenacity to play in a midfield 3 for us? And would we spend the money on him when we need wingers, a 6, 2 FBs, possibly a striker etc.

If we were playing Poch style 4231 with overlapping fullbacks I’d be all over him for what it’s worth.

I think he could 100% play in a middle three for us. His work rate off the ball is excellent hence Alegri trying him out at WB. He isn’t a player who only works one way.

I completely get why you are against the idea of him as a WF for our current system. I do think he could play there against teams who park the bus as his ability to pick a pass and move past players from a wide areas makes him a really strong asset against teams that sit deep but I also get that for more open games you need a player who is more direct to pin the defender back. I’ve seen Soulé compared to Kulu and i really don’t think that’s a true comparison if you watch both of them.

A player like Williams should be our top priority for the wide position, absolutely no question. But the creativity, technical ability, passing range and vision Soulé has already at only 20 makes me think we should add him as well as he would fit the system well and bring a lot to the team.

 

[Now it's Spursonal]

They really aren't great at progressing the ball forward. None of there regular starters in CM or CB are in a higher percentile in their relative positions for progressive passes than 54th. For comparison, we don have a player that is a regular starter in any of those positions that is under the 69th percentile.

From the Kompany clip, it seemed to be his attitude to being subbed.

From my understanding of Motta’s tactics it’s designed to progress the ball through progressive carries rather than progressive passes. So I’d be interested to see how they fair in that respect stats wise.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Last summer, I would have agreed that Zirkzee (based on his time at Bologna) wasn't suited, but whether it's because we haven't fully adapted to Ange's tactics, haven't got the right style of winger or just because the EPL is a different beast to the SPL, I'm no longer sure a "fox in the box" type is suited to us.

There have been many times this season that, IMO, we could have benefited from Zirkzee's hold up play, ability to turn defenders and his passing and vision.

I actually think he is dropping back so often because Bologna have sod all creativity in the team (like Kane under Jose and Conte). If you watch him at Anderlecht, he was often on the shoulder of the last man and many of his goals were from cut backs from the byline, so he could actually be an ideal option.

Also, in regards to his poor finishing, he is outperforming his xG this season and at Anderlecht, he outperformed it to Son/Kane levels.

On the negative side, in that video of Kompany doing the angry rant/team talk at Anderlecht, that was posted on here when we were mangerless, Zirkzee was a player singled out for his attitude.

Agree. Think link up play in the central forward has been the biggest weakness for us this season imo. Richarlisons physical enough back to goal but there’s much more to being a hold up forward than that. his touch, ball manipulation, ball carrying, passing ability are the weaker parts of his game. He’s more the get on the end of crosses/one touch finishes that people think we need.

I like the idea of a better all round footballer, linking up with the midfielders, Johnson and son and using their pace in behind. Think Zirkzee is an interesting option.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

I think he could 100% play in a middle three for us. His work rate off the ball is excellent hence Alegri trying him out at WB. He isn’t a player who only works one way.

I completely get why you are against the idea of him as a WF for our current system. I do think he could play there against teams who park the bus as his ability to pick a pass and move past players from a wide areas makes him a really strong asset against teams that sit deep but I also get that for more open games you need a player who is more direct to pin the defender back. I’ve seen Soulé compared to Kulu and i really don’t think that’s a true comparison if you watch both of them.

A player like Williams should be our top priority for the wide position, absolutely no question. But the creativity, technical ability, passing range and vision Soulé has already at only 20 makes me think we should add him as well as he would fit the system well and bring a lot to the team.

You make some really good points mate and I think if we had someone like Williams in the squad already then I’d definitely be more open to it too.

I do also think we should be looking at using Porro on overlaps more often in certain games to change it up tactically and disrupt the opposition. If we did this then someone like Soule would make a lot more sense as we’d have a lot more positional rotation going on (a bit like City with the way De Bruyne, Silva/Foden and Walker) rotate positionally in attack.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

You make some really good points mate and I think if we had someone like Williams in the squad already then I’d definitely be more open to it too.

I do also think we should be looking at using Porro on overlaps more often in certain games to change it up tactically and disrupt the opposition. If we did this then someone like Soule would make a lot more sense as we’d have a lot more positional rotation going on (a bit like City with the way De Bruyne, Silva/Foden and Walker) rotate positionally in attack.

Excellent point bud. Without derailing the thread too much i completely agree with you re Porro. I don’t see any problem with a more lopsided approach in regards to FB. Ie one inverting and the other staying wide for an overlap. Especially as I feel it’s an area Porro excels in yet doesn’t often get the chance to play in. Obviously it would depend on the opposition and who we put in midfield but that sort of versatility, as you point out, would certainly make us more dangerous I feel and less predictable.

 

[spurs9]

From my understanding of Motta’s tactics it’s designed to progress the ball through progressive carries rather than progressive passes. So I’d be interested to see how they fair in that respect stats wise.

Ferguson and Calafiori are decent with 69th percentile (slightly less than Sarr and Bissouma) and 87th percentile (same as VdV) respectively, but the rest are 50th and under.