The Summer 2024 scouting thread

[Ghost Hardware]

Yeah I hear you.

Honestly I spoke with @Ghost Hardware the other day since he mentioned Onyedika I’m really leaning towards him the most.

He looks like he’s ready to really explode as a player and I don’t think he will cost huge money. Sure he’s not going to be a big name but I think he could come in and really perform well in the way Vic, VdV and Udogie have this season.

Yep agree 100%, I really like him a lot. Big fan and has huge potential IMO. When I have time I really want to do a write up on a few Belgium league talents, one of them is obviously Onydekia but the others are 23 year old Algirian Mohamed Amoura at Union Saint-Gilloise who is a small very fast, very very technical forward who is second in the league for goals scored with 17 (he also got a goal and assist against Liverpool hence why i think he could do it in the PL) and versatile enough to play across the front three. The third is 21 year old DM Mandela Keita who recently got his first cap for Belgium, all be it was only 8 mins but still, and from what I've seen looks a very exciting prospect in the making. He's not as developed as Onydekia, who is probably one of the best talents in the league these days, but I really like the look of him.

Maybe i'll try and get a profile on them done this weekend but if not all three are very exciting talents and worth giving a google if anyone fancies having a look.

 

[felmani26]

So a few suggestions here - I can't compete with @Ghost Hardware for detailed analysis but as discussion points;

Morten Hjulmand (Sporting)- Having a great season at Sporting under Amorim and naturally being linked to Liverpool. Not as progressive as say a Rodri in bringing in forward but much more a meat and potatoes, keep it simple/tidy with a strong physical upright presence very much in the mold of Palhinha.



Andre Trindade (Fluminense) - Smaller, thicker set on him but more tenacious with a penchant for long raking balls - think Bruno Guimaraes.



Mats Wieffer (Feyenoord) - courtesy of @Nick-TopSpursMan , Wieffer is certainly more a progressive 6 than the above and operating in a similar system under Slot to that of Ange which should make the transition more seamless theoretically.



Alan Varela (Porto) - Tough tackling Argentinian having a great first season at Porto but definitely likes a slide challenge which might need to be tamed in the Premier League.

 

[jpascavitz]

I put him on a list of of possible players I’d think we would be looking at earlier in this thread. I had intended to profile him but never got round to it. He’s certainly been one of stand out’s for Stuttgart who are having a very good season. Hoeness has done a seriously incredible job there since joining last summer. They are currently 3rd after finishing 16th last season and 15th the year before, on a side note I think he has a bright future if he manages to build on this season.

Stiller is a really exciting player who has been pushing for a spot in the Germany team all season. He is also pretty versatile and has even been deployed at CB this season. I actually think he’s a solid dribbler who is very good at making space for himself, nothing flashy but he is good at taking a few touches to open up a passing lane. In general he has good technical ability across the board which is unsurprising given that he came out of Bayern’s academy.

The reason i put off the writing up about him tho is that I just don’t think he’s a good fit for our system anymore. Originally I was thinking we should look for a more forward thinking DLP to take that role as I thought it would open up more options further up the pitch but over the last month or so my mind has been changed somewhat. Whilst we still need someone with good passing range and technical ability on the ball I also think defensive stability and physicality are just as important if we intend to continue playing such an aggressive high line with two inverted FB's

Stuttgart have used numerous tactics this season, 343, 442, 4231 but prettey much the constant has been the double pivot Stiller is part of. Within that he’s not really expected to be the deep 6 mopping up and he will often move high up the pitch. At times he’s more an 8 than a 6. Atakan Karazor his midfield partner is the player who's primary focus is in defence and if anything is more the classic ball winning DM of the two. It's Karazor's large physical presence and no nonsense passing/movement in the double pivot that allows Stiller to be more creative/forward thinking player even if he does often sit deeper. Karazor is very rarely part of attacking movement unlike his midfield partner and is the player tasked with screening the back line. I really don't know how Stiller would cope being the lone DM in a midfield three as i think the main reason for his rapid rise this season is his excellent balance with Karazor. Also whilst he is hard working and a tenacious tackler he isn’t a physically commanding presences, something that I think we need.

As a player I like him a lot and think he has a very bright future, he’s got great passing range and vision as you point out. For me tho a light weight deep lying playmaker isn’t necessarily the player we need for the DM role, I have the same concerns about Zubimendi and if anything id say Martin would be the more comfortable choice for the lone DM role as he at least currently plays as the deepest in a CM 3.

Awesome insights, thanks! Yeah that's what makes this role hard to single out imo, someone who can pass relatively well but also be tasked to mop up while being somewhat mobile

 

[jpascavitz]

Yep agree 100%, I really like him a lot. Big fan and has huge potential IMO. When I have time I really want to do a write up on a few Belgium league talents, one of them is obviously Onydekia but the others are 23 year old Algirian Mohamed Amoura at Union Saint-Gilloise who is a small very fast, very very technical forward who is second in the league for goals scored with 17 (he also got a goal and assist against Liverpool hence why i think he could do it in the PL) and versatile enough to play across the front three. The third is 21 year old DM Mandela Keita who recently got his first cap for Belgium, all be it was only 8 mins but still, and from what I've seen looks a very exciting prospect in the making. He's not as developed as Onydekia, who is probably one of the best talents in the league these days, but I really like the look of him.

Maybe i'll try and get a profile on them done this weekend but if not all three are very exciting talents and worth giving a google if anyone fancies having a look.

There was a few soft links to Mohamed Amoura this week and he's very small but intriguing as you say. Did WLB ever reveal who the Swedish striker was? I know I was possibly thinking his USG teammate Gustaff Nilsson.

I'd definitely be interested in reading about Amoura and the other Belgian league talents. Thanks as always for your analysis!

 

[mill]

Yep agree 100%, I really like him a lot. Big fan and has huge potential IMO. When I have time I really want to do a write up on a few Belgium league talents, one of them is obviously Onydekia but the others are 23 year old Algirian Mohamed Amoura at Union Saint-Gilloise who is a small very fast, very very technical forward who is second in the league for goals scored with 17 (he also got a goal and assist against Liverpool hence why i think he could do it in the PL) and versatile enough to play across the front three. The third is 21 year old DM Mandela Keita who recently got his first cap for Belgium, all be it was only 8 mins but still, and from what I've seen looks a very exciting prospect in the making. He's not as developed as Onydekia, who is probably one of the best talents in the league these days, but I really like the look of him.

Maybe i'll try and get a profile on them done this weekend but if not all three are very exciting talents and worth giving a google if anyone fancies having a look.

We’ve been linked with Amoura recently

 

[Ghost Hardware]

So a few suggestions here - I can't compete with @Ghost Hardware for detailed analysis but as discussion points;

Morten Hjulmand (Sporting)- Having a great season at Sporting under Amorim and naturally being linked to Liverpool. Not as progressive as say a Rodri in bringing in forward but much more a meat and potatoes, keep it simple/tidy with a strong physical upright presence very much in the mold of Palhinha.



Andre Trindade (Fluminense) - Smaller, thicker set on him but more tenacious with a penchant for long raking balls - think Bruno Guimaraes.



Mats Wieffer (Feyenoord) - courtesy of @Nick-TopSpursMan , Wieffer is certainly more a progressive 6 than the above and operating in a similar system under Slot to that of Ange which should make the transition more seamless theoretically.



Alan Varela (Porto) - Tough tackling Argentinian having a great first season at Porto but definitely likes a slide challenge which might need to be tamed in the Premier League.

I put Andre and Valrela on my list as good options near the start of this thread so I agree with you on those. I must say I find it strange that more teams aren't looking at Andre, he was supposedly close to going to Pool but then went completely dead, maybe because Klopp decided to go. Be interested to see what happens to him this summer.

As for Hjulmand, got to be honest, doesn't matter how talented he is the fact he has an Arsenal tattoo makes him an immediate no from me.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

We’ve been linked with Amoura recently

I that case i won't talk too much about him as I don't want to get the thread locked but that is interesting. He's such a fun player to watch, i imagine he must be really annoying to play against because he's constantly buzzing around. He would struggle as a CF against park the bus teams but as I said he's comfortable out wide. Crazy quick acceleration, great close control at speed, good at picking up pockets of space and just generally being a nuisance. I could 100% see a Seria A team picking him up this summer.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

There was a few soft links to Mohamed Amoura this week and he's very small but intriguing as you say. Did WLB ever reveal who the Swedish striker was? I know I was possibly thinking his USG teammate Gustaff Nilsson.

I'd definitely be interested in reading about Amoura and the other Belgian league talents. Thanks as always for your analysis!

No we didn't, i had completely forgotten about that! I'd be very curious to know who it is. Must say I was more thinking about Baena that i sort of looked over that part of the ITK. Like I said in above reply, Amoura is such a fun player to watch, I haven't yet seen a comp that accurately displays his talent yet and ultimately I think he might be a little on the small side for us but I do really like him as a player.

 

[felmani26]

I put Andre and Valrela on my list as good options near the start of this thread so I agree with you on those. I must say I find it strange that more teams aren't looking at Andre, he was supposedly close to going to Pool but then went completely dead, maybe because Klopp decided to go. Be interested to see what happens to him this summer.

As for Hjulmand, got to be honest, doesn't matter how talented he is the fact he has an Arsenal tattoo makes him an immediate no from me.

Yes, that's not going to endear him to fans for sure but wouldn't expect it to be a deal breaker although probably best not to have the headache granted.

Andre for me looks a really intriguing prospect but it'll be interesting to see how Ange and our transfer committee view the 6 position - whether we look for similar attributes in Bissouma or more a pressing/aggressive DM.

 

[purplemonkey]

Agree the 6 position looks the hardest to get right.

At the moment I’m leaning towards Mats Wieffer or Onyedika but still doing some research.

Re Wieffer, I researched his stats just for the CL season and they stand up pretty well. He was top 99th percentile for ball recoveries which is a metric I’ve been looking at carefully since realising Rodri ranks top 99th percentile for it in the PL.

Rodri’s stats are peerless in almost every metric - yes, it indicates what an exceptional and well rounded player he is (let’s be clear, he really is one of a kind) but also bear in mind that City beast every game so their stats will be skewed and the stats for their controlling midfielder will be skewed even more so. Fernandinho was the same. Profiling those players is almost a futile exercise.

I find stats fascinating but I always apply a degree of cynicism. Can you explain why ball recoveries an important stat above all else? Does that particular stat have any more or less importance in an Ange team? Hojbjerg is in the 99th percentile for ball recoveries in the PL this season - a feat which he replicated in two other seasons in a Spurs shirt (in fact the only time he dipped below the 87th percentile was last season). So fair to say he’s a ball recovery specialist. His defensive actions are good (e.g. 87th percentile for interceptions, 89th for clearances) and his passing and possession stats are exceptional with passes attempted in the 99th percentile, progressive passes in the 95th percentile, pass completion 85th (by the way, I remember many Spurs fans were against his signing because his passing stats at Southampton were below par). So, why isn’t he a good candidate? Would he be on the radar if he was at a different club? Bentancur’s ball recoveries have dropped astronomically from being in the 86th percentile last season to 23rd percentile this season. What conclusions can we draw from that?

The individual player snapshots and comparisons are fun and illustrative to a certain extent, but they‘re totally devoid of context and can be extremely
misleading. Team stats are more useful IMO and when the two are used in conjunction you can probably put together a half decent analysis of a players strengths, weaknesses and mitigations within a framework… but even then, the data available to the average fan is so basic and the options to dive deeper and filter is so limited that it’s not really a reliable substitute for eyes on scouting.

 

[fecka]

I might get shouted down for this but I'd experiment with moving Romero into the 6. He's phenomenal at reading danger and winning balls high up the pitch. Great on the ball too. In the last few months, he's been bypassed a lot by balls over the top and his strengths haven't been able to truly shine IMO.

I'd then look at someone like Ousmane Diomande for CB. I see him as a marginally slower but more aggressive version of Van de Ven.

 

[ConzWright]

What are the thoughts on Khephren Thuram at Nice as a number 6 we could look at?

Personally feel as though he has really good size at 6'3 and great athleticism which is clearly something we need from the position in defensive transition.

At the same time I think Thuram would mean we don't lose the ball-carrying and press resistance qualities that we have with Bissouma, but adds a much better passing range and a more combative/stronger dribbling style which should really suit the premier league.

His size should also help in our frailties with defending set pieces currently, as well as another weapon when we have corners ourselves. Think another plus is he could probably double as an 8 if we needed that for certain games against more physical opposition.

If anyone wants to take a look:

 

[fecka]

What are the thoughts on Khephren Thuram at Nice as a number 6 we could look at?

Personally feel as though he has really good size at 6'3 and great athleticism which is clearly something we need from the position in defensive transition.

At the same time I think Thuram would mean we don't lose the ball-carrying and press resistance qualities that we have with Bissouma, but adds a much better passing range and a more combative/stronger dribbling style which should really suit the premier league.

His size should also help in our frailties with defending set pieces currently, as well as another weapon when we have corners ourselves. Think another plus is he could probably double as an 8 if we needed that for certain games against more physical opposition.

If anyone wants to take a look:

I've been thinking about him too, but isn't he not that great at defending? Feel like he's more of an 8 but he's got boatloads of talent. Contract up in 2025 too according to Transfermarkt.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

Thuram isn’t defensively aware enough to play as a 6 imo.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

@purplemonkey I get what you’re saying and you make some good points.

What I would say and have always said is I don’t just go off the stats. I use the stats as a tool alongside the eye test.

Hojbjerg ranks well in metrics but he’s clearly too slow and immobile plus he loses his man too easily for example.

So sure there may be times when I haven’t seen much of a player so the stats are the only way to judge but most of the time I look at them alongside having watched them in matches too to form an opinion.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

I might get shouted down for this but I'd experiment with moving Romero into the 6. He's phenomenal at reading danger and winning balls high up the pitch. Great on the ball too. In the last few months, he's been bypassed a lot by balls over the top and his strengths haven't been able to truly shine IMO.

I'd then look at someone like Ousmane Diomande for CB. I see him as a marginally slower but more aggressive version of Van de Ven.

I rated this funny just because I know why you suggest this and thats because Diomande is probably one of the most exciting you CB prospects in the world at the moment and it would be amazing to have him. The fact that you actually got me thinking if this was feasible...

 

[fecka]

I rated this funny just because I know why you suggest this and thats because Diomande is probably one of the most exciting you CB prospects in the world at the moment and it would be amazing to have him. The fact that you actually got me thinking of this was feasible...

View attachment 139669

Certainly a better reaction than I expected, lol.
I can understand the skepticism about moving one of the best CB's in the league to DM. Due to the way we play, I feel like he could have an even bigger impact at DM than he already has at CB since he's already so mobile and would have even more freedom to move further up the pitch to win the ball.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Yes, that's not going to endear him to fans for sure but wouldn't expect it to be a deal breaker although probably best not to have the headache granted.

Andre for me looks a really intriguing prospect but it'll be interesting to see how Ange and our transfer committee view the 6 position - whether we look for similar attributes in Bissouma or more a pressing/aggressive DM.

Yeah tbh i was sort of joking about the tattoo, well half joking. His signing vid can always be him getting a cover up and burning an Arsenal shirt.

 

[fecka]

Yeah tbh i was sort of joking about the tattoo, well half joking. His signing vid can always be him getting a cover up and burning an Arsenal shirt.

Think a tattoo removal video would be required lol

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Certainly a better reaction than I expected, lol.
I can understand the skepticism about moving one of the best CB's in the league to DM. Due to the way we play, I feel like he could have an even bigger impact at DM than he already has at CB since he's already so mobile and would have even more freedom to move further up the pitch to win the ball.

I honestly can see the logic, i don't think it would ever happen but It's certainly an interesting concept given how high our CB's sometimes come and it would be nice to have two speedsters in the back line.