The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

[Blake Griffin]

 

[Locotoro]

I know we have Parrot to be developed but does anyone think Roles could also be converted into a deep playing Forward?
His off the ball movement and finishing reminds me of a young Robbie Fowler

 

[onthetwo]

any news re Roles' contract situation? Think Windy said it was up in the summer...

 

[therhinospeaks]

If Statham and Poch Jr have been offered pros I think it's fair to assume everyone from that age group has been offered pros for next season

They've certainly set the bar low with these two announcements.

 

[coys200]

Not sure what a deep playing forward is. But fowler was a an out and out striker. If anything I think Roles might have more chance as a poacher type striker he certainly knows where the goal is. I don’t think he’s really good enough to be competing with dele and eriksen as a 10 type.

 

[therhinospeaks]

Not sure what a deep playing forward is. But fowler was a an out and out striker. If anything I think Roles might have more chance as a poacher type striker he certainly knows where the goal is. I don’t think he’s really good enough to be competing with dele and eriksen as a 10 type.

Would of been a better option than Dele on Saturday gone.

 

[sammyj]

Anyone heard of us signing some Watford u18s

 

[bceej]

Anyone heard of us signing some Watford u18s

Sonny Blu Lo Everton ring a bell?

 

[thefierycamel]

Would have been nice to see roles and a winger on the bench tonight. If they can't get a place on the bench when we're this thin and have literally zero attacking options available then I don't know when they will.

 

[Yiddo100]

Tbf they played 90mins yesterday

 

[thefierycamel]

Tbf they played 90mins yesterday

Presumably poch knew who was fit before then though. Surely it wouldn't have been hard for him to pull players out of that match

 

[spud]

I've seen a lot of comments saying that Poch doesn't trust the more skillful attacking players in our youth system as much as the defensive ones, and Skipp and Marsh (and to a lesser extent Winks) are offered in evidence supporting that proposition. While my knowledge of the relative merits of our young players is virtually nil, I don't think that is correct.

I have just read Guillem Balague's book 'Brave New World. Inside Pochettino's Spurs', which gives an insight into the manager's philosophy and way of thinking. It makes a couple of things abundantly clear:
1. He wants to bring youth players into the first team squad and to play them. In fact, he would prefer to do that than to sign players from other clubs.
2. The players who will make it aren't necessarily the most talented. They aren't necessarily defensive players. They are the players who are most committed to their development, to the philosophy, and - most importantly - to the team.

For example, several mentions are made in the book of his high regard for the ability of Josh Onomah and Marcus Edwards and for his hopes for them. Yet they haven't made the breakthrough that many thought that they would - or perhaps should. No reasons are given for why they - or any other particular players - haven't yet made the breakthrough; but it is easy to read between the lines.

Poch wants players to play with high energy, which requires physical commitment. It requires discipline in a player's diet and personal life as well as their commitment to training. He wants them to be completely committed to the club, to the team, and to their team-mates. They have to put the team above everything else. The players who don't do that simply won't play.

He makes several mentions of the conflicting voices that young players hear, particularly when they are those who are expected to make the grade. Parents, friends, agents and others boost their egos and sense of importance, so they can often lose sight of what they need to do to break through to the first team squad and team. They can start focussing on themselves and, not unnaturally, putting their own best interests - or what they perceive to be their own best interests - first. This is effectively developmental suicide at Pochettino's Tottenham. He believes that it is a team game, and that if you give everything for the team then you will, in doing so, automatically serve your own best interests. However, if you sublimate the interests of the team - either on or off the pitch - to your own, then you're not fully committed to the cause, and your chances to play diminish.

I don't know - and the book doesn't tell us - which players show the necessary commitment to a greater or lesser extent. But I am willing to bet that the reason why some youth players are nearer to the first team squad than others is a direct result of this. Talent is obviously important. But at this club, at this time, it simply isn't enough.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I've seen a lot of comments saying that Poch doesn't trust the more skillful attacking players in our youth system as much as the defensive ones, and Skipp and Marsh (and to a lesser extent Winks) are offered in evidence supporting that proposition. While my knowledge of the relative merits of our young players is virtually nil, I don't think that is correct.

I have just read Guillem Balague's book 'Brave New World. Inside Pochettino's Spurs', which gives an insight into the manager's philosophy and way of thinking. It makes a couple of things abundantly clear:
1. He wants to bring youth players into the first team squad and to play them. In fact, he would prefer to do that than to sign players from other clubs.
2. The players who will make it aren't necessarily the most talented. They aren't necessarily defensive or players. They are the players who are most committed to their development, to the philosophy, and - most importantly - to the team.

For example, several mentions are made in the book of his high regard for the ability of Josh Onomah and Marcus Edwards and for his hopes for them. Yet they haven't made the breakthrough that many thought that they would - or perhaps should. No reasons are given for why they - or any other particular players - haven't yet made the breakthrough; but it is easy to read between the lines.

Poch wants players to play with high energy, which requires physical commitment. It requires discipline in a player's diet and personal life as well as their commitment to training. He wants them to be completely committed to the club, to the team, and to their team-mates. They have to put the team above everything else. The players who don't do that simply won't play.

He makes several mentions of the conflicting voices that young players hear, particularly when they are those who are expected to make the grade. Parents, friends, agents and others boost their egos and sense of importance, so they can often lose sight of what they need to do to break through to the first team squad and team. They can start focussing on themselves and, not unnaturally, putting their own best interests - or what they perceive to be their own best interests - first. This is effectively developmental suicide at Pochettino's Tottenham. He believes that it is a team game, and that if you give everything for the team then you will, in doing so, automatically serve your own best interests. However, if you sublimate the interests of the team - either on or off the pitch - to your own, then you're not fully committed to the cause, and your chances to play diminish.

I don't know - and the book doesn't tell us - which players show the necessary commitment to a greater or lesser extent. But I am willing to bet that the reason why some youth players are nearer to the first team squad than others is a direct result of this. Talent is obviously important. But at this club, at this time, it simply isn't enough.

windy did a good blog post on this fairly recently, i think he nails the feelings of many youth watchers in this particular excerpt:

There is another point worth making that is specific to Pochettino and to the list of players given debuts. There’s a common trait amongst many of the players: they’re mostly worker bees. There’s a feeling that under Pochettino if young players ‘work hard’ then they will get their chances. What characterises ‘working hard’ is different depending on the type of player, though and, as such, I have a theory that Pochettino is pretty good at giving opportunities to hard-working midfielders (Winks, Skipp, Amos, Marsh, Lesniak, Walkes) but that he struggles to bring through the more mercurial players, of which Roles is certainly one.

My theory is that combative midfielders find it easier to ‘show character’ since that is one of the traits that they have been led to develop over the course of their fledgling careers. Indeed, these are traits that could come naturally to them and have led to them becoming central midfielders in the first place. So if George Marsh — a bloody hard-working, tenacious but ultimately limited player — charges around in training putting tackles in, doing the hard yards, catches the eye and gets minutes for the first team ahead of, say, Sam Shashoua, a technically-gifted, creative, door-unlocking but undoubtedly mercurial player, then in my opinion something has gone wrong. This is not meant to be disrespectful to Marsh who I hope will go on to have a good career himself (and who is clearly a good lad, and a proper ‘team man’), but Shashoua’s ceiling in terms of technique and overall ability is far higher. Lesniak, who Pochettino used, now plays for AaB in the Danish Superliga. Walkes for Portsmouth in League One. These are not elite-level players but they were prioritised over others.

Some people will point towards attitude. Perhaps Lesniak and Walkes ‘had the right attitude’. Perhaps they were better professionals than others. And that could be true (though I suspect attitude is in the eye of the beholder), but then it is up to the club to develop these professional behaviours better through their Academy structures: after all, they have them from when they are children in many cases.

i don't really want to go over old ground as this year's thread has mostly been free of such discussions, especially compared to the previous couple of years but you can't tell me that not a single one of our more attacking players have the correct attitude or mentality. windy's point about those players poch has involved as being hard-workers and the rest of it is true but i also think another factor is that they're safe, they can be relied on to not take risks and to usually make good(or again, safe) decisions, the more creative or perhaps talented players however take more risks and are more likely to lose the ball trying something. if i didn't really follow the academy i'd be thinking that the only type of player we produce are neat and tidy hard-working centre mids but that isn't really the case.

yesterday we were woefully short of attacking options but knowing the way poch works i never expected to see roles(for example) being involved, he doesn't really seem to care about the positions we have a need for but more works his way down the list of who he "trusts", so even if we didn't have lucas or llorente yesterday i bet it would have been marsh and bowden taking a place in the squad rather than an actual attacking player.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

didn't maghoma's father said on twitter that poch said attacking players in the academy has to be "very special" to get a chance?

 

[therhinospeaks]

didn't maghoma's father said on twitter that poch said attacking players in the academy has to be "very special" to get a chance?

He also said that we offered him a pro deal when he was 14 and that championship clubs were queuing up to offer Christian a contract. Suffice to say Edo has a wonderful imagination.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

I've seen a lot of comments saying that Poch doesn't trust the more skillful attacking players in our youth system as much as the defensive ones, and Skipp and Marsh (and to a lesser extent Winks) are offered in evidence supporting that proposition. While my knowledge of the relative merits of our young players is virtually nil, I don't think that is correct.

I have just read Guillem Balague's book 'Brave New World. Inside Pochettino's Spurs', which gives an insight into the manager's philosophy and way of thinking. It makes a couple of things abundantly clear:
1. He wants to bring youth players into the first team squad and to play them. In fact, he would prefer to do that than to sign players from other clubs.
2. The players who will make it aren't necessarily the most talented. They aren't necessarily defensive or players. They are the players who are most committed to their development, to the philosophy, and - most importantly - to the team.

For example, several mentions are made in the book of his high regard for the ability of Josh Onomah and Marcus Edwards and for his hopes for them. Yet they haven't made the breakthrough that many thought that they would - or perhaps should. No reasons are given for why they - or any other particular players - haven't yet made the breakthrough; but it is easy to read between the lines.

Poch wants players to play with high energy, which requires physical commitment. It requires discipline in a player's diet and personal life as well as their commitment to training. He wants them to be completely committed to the club, to the team, and to their team-mates. They have to put the team above everything else. The players who don't do that simply won't play.

He makes several mentions of the conflicting voices that young players hear, particularly when they are those who are expected to make the grade. Parents, friends, agents and others boost their egos and sense of importance, so they can often lose sight of what they need to do to break through to the first team squad and team. They can start focussing on themselves and, not unnaturally, putting their own best interests - or what they perceive to be their own best interests - first. This is effectively developmental suicide at Pochettino's Tottenham. He believes that it is a team game, and that if you give everything for the team then you will, in doing so, automatically serve your own best interests. However, if you sublimate the interests of the team - either on or off the pitch - to your own, then you're not fully committed to the cause, and your chances to play diminish.

I don't know - and the book doesn't tell us - which players show the necessary commitment to a greater or lesser extent. But I am willing to bet that the reason why some youth players are nearer to the first team squad than others is a direct result of this. Talent is obviously important. But at this club, at this time, it simply isn't enough.

Easy to see why Onomah hasn’t featured. Just watch him play for Sheffield Wed or Villa. Just hasn’t got the necessary intensity. KWP prob going the same way as Foyth seems to have overtaken him as full back cover

 

[Blake Griffin]

end of season goal/assists stats:

u18 (combined - name - goals - assists)
20 - troy parrott - 15 - 5
16 - dilan markanday - 12 - 4
16 - rayan clarke - 8 - 8
16 - armando shashoua - 7 - 9
14 - j'neil bennett - 10 - 4
14 - harvey white - 7 - 7
9 - rodel richards - 7 - 2
7 - paris maghoma - 4 - 3
5 - maurizio pochettino - 4 - 1
5 - phoenix patterson - 2 - 3
4 - jamie bowden - 0 - 4
3 - luis binks - 2 - 1
3 - jeremie mukendi - 2 - 1
2 - dennis cirkin - 2 - 0
2 - kion etete - 2 - 0
2 - brooklyn lyons-foster - 2 - 0
2 - elliot thorpe - 1 - 1
1 - jubril okedina - 1 - 0
1 - tarrelle whittaker - 1 - 0
1 - chay cooper - 0 - 1
1 - michael craig - 0 - 1
1 - nike john - 0 - 1
1 - oliver skipp - 0 - 1
1 - max statham - 0 - 1
1 - malachi walcott - 0 - 1

u19 (combined - name - goals - assists)
4 - troy parrott - 3 - 1
3 - jack roles - 2 - 1
3 - jamie bowden - 0 - 3
2 - rodel richards - 2 - 0
2 - paris maghoma - 1 - 1
1 - jaden brown - 1 - 0
1 - brooklyn lyons-foster - 1 - 0
1 - malachi walcott - 1 - 0
1 - j'neil bennett - 0 - 1
1 - harvey white - 0 - 1

u23 (combined - name - goals - assists)
19 - jack roles - 13 - 6
7 - kazaiah sterling - 5 - 2
6 - shayon harrison - 5 - 1
5 - vincent janssen - 2 - 3
5 - paris maghoma - 4 - 1
4 - jaden brown - 2 - 2
3 - troy parrott - 2 - 1
2 - anthony georgiou - 1 - 1
2 - tashan oakley-boothe - 1 - 1
2 - shilow tracey - 1 - 1
2 - tariq hinds - 0 - 2
1 - dylan duncan - 1 - 0
1 - marcus edwards - 1 - 0
1 - phoenix patterson - 1 - 0
1 - samuel shashoua - 1 - 0
1 - harvey white - 1 - 0
1 - jamie bowden - 0 - 1
1 - dilan markanday - 0 - 1
1 - george marsh - 0 - 1
1 - rodel richards - 0 - 1
1 - oliver skipp - 0 -1
1 - japhet tanganga - 0 - 1


think rayan clarke has done very well to put up those numbers given he quite often doesn't start games. a.shashoua with a big jump this year too, hopefully he can replicate that form next season with the u23s. roles undoubtedly the u23's player of the season, u18s could be one of about five - binks, white, shashoua, markanday, parrott.

 

[mark87]

Is Roles contract up in the summer?

 

[Blake Griffin]

Is Roles contract up in the summer?

yep and as of about a month ago still yet to be offered one, reportedly.

 

[mark87]

yep and as of about a month ago still yet to be offered one, reportedly.

Absolute madness.