The Rugby Thread

[SugarRay]

That was atrocious!

The back row thing has been done to death. We simply don’t have one. Before though, we had coped with it.

We were poor from an attacking point of view. Half backs were terrible, George and Cole were awful and Daly is wasted on the wing. He’s far too intelligent for that role.

Plenty were worried England had stagnated over the last year or so but they’ve actually regressed.

Jones has work to do.

The players are there, no doubt, but bollocks like Lawes at 6 is just a waste of time. Armand or Ewers could have been given a chance.

Next week I’d go with -
Vunipola
LCD
Sinkler
Launchbury
Lawes/Itoje
Robshaw
Simmonds
Armand
Robson
Farrell
May
Teo
Daly
Watson
Brown

 

[E17yid]

On the plus side Wales have a great chance of 2nd place.

 

[mpickard2087]

Other sides have worked out England's tactics after a couple of years - England like to play with width through the phases, which means you need pods of forwards either side of the field as first wave and can allow the 10/12 to pivot off it and then get the ball out to the backs in the wider channels. But this means not committing numbers to the breakdown.... Teams are now targeting us here, we're struggling to adapt, and we're getting the mess that we see the last couple of games.

So some of it requires a rethink tactically, and definitely as a collective work needs to be done about breakdowns and securing ball... but also selections are not helping, and the lack of balance is being shown up..... We don't have enough speed to get to rucks phase after phase, which means eg.Robshaw tries his best but is just beaten by the quicker men like Watson/Barclay to be first on the scene. Lawes is a big giraffe who cannot easily get over the ball compared to a smaller man etc etc. Our lack of heavy ball carriers is also getting shown up now, it's so much easier for a defence to target us if they're taking the tackle on their terms rather than having given up the gain line and scrambling on the back foot.

The rest of the attacking game, structures, and multi-phase play then fall apart because you're going completely off plan in the wretched struggle it is becoming to secure your own ball, and hesitation also creeps in about when/where to carry. I'd be minded to give the Backs a bit of a free pass currently, because it's what's happening that is primarily the responsibility of the Pack that needs sorting out and if 1-8 are firing then the rest takes care of itself usually.

 

[teok]

I am not very knowledgeable about Rugby but it seems weird how England just seemed to have really regressed in the this six nations. Just seems very strange.

It's a combination of things:

- As a whole the squad is fatigued. This comes from it being a post lions season and premiership teams having to play their best players every week. There was a table I saw on twitter which some one posted showing the minutes played this season by the lions and the english players topped it by a mile.

- Both england and saracens look like different teams without billy vunipola. For saracens at least there was some absurd stat showing their win rate with vs without him. He's a game changer.

- The back row has been a huge issue for ages. Injuries keep preventing a solution being found though. What is clear though is that shoe horning players from other positions in doesn't work at the highest level. The curry twins look like fantastic sevens in the making but they are teenagers. I hope they can mature before the world cup.

- So many of englands problems simply some from ball carriers being left stranded by the back row. It was bizarre today. Our back row was so slow that it ended up being ford and other tiny backs trying to out ruck bastareaud and the other massive french forwards. Robshaw is a great servant but he shouldn't avoid criticism. It was a mess. I have no idea what they were working on in training.

- Next week will be painful against ireland who are world class at the breakdown. England with more injuries are looking completely screwed.

 

[mpickard2087]

This sort of thing has to have an impact too:

 

[teok]

Yeah that was the table.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

Agree it doesn't need wholesale changes but it does need something and the worry is that Eddie isn't prepared to look outside the players he's already decided are in his squad.

Also...and I know you really won't like this...but not sure Itoje should be picked against Ireland. I'd go with Lawes and Launchbury.

I'd go with Launchbury and one, but it is certainly difficult to say which one. I thought Maro was better yesterday, but Lawes put himself about. I might start with Lawes and finish with Maro.

Tbh I think Maro needs a rest.

 

[E17yid]

I'd go with Launchbury and one, but it is certainly difficult to say which one. I thought Maro was better yesterday, but Lawes put himself about. I might start with Lawes and finish with Maro.

Tbh I think Maro needs a rest.

He had a rest when he fractured his jaw.

 

[StockSpur]

It's a combination of things:

- So many of englands problems simply some from ball carriers being left stranded by the back row. It was bizarre today. Our back row was so slow that it ended up being ford and other tiny backs trying to out ruck bastareaud and the other massive french forwards. Robshaw is a great servant but he shouldn't avoid criticism. It was a mess. I have no idea what they were working on in training.
.

In a nut shell

 

[teok]

Oh and well done to the irish by the way. Well deserved, best club side this season also. Ireland dominating european rugby currently.

 

[E17yid]

Well played Watkin

 

[E17yid]

Maybe but a World Cup winning team build from longer than 6 months before the tournament.

It’s not like you need a massive rebuild or nothing, though.

As @SugarRay says the personnel isn’t the problem. As I’ve said there’s not anything between us 2 and Ireland, imo. You’re talking about 1 or 2 incidents a game that can go either way.

Sexton gets a worldly drop goal in injury time to sneak a 1-2 point win against France. If Anscombe wasn’t a muppet and just took the simple option of Tipuric on his shoulder then we beat Ireland (though they were the better team)

It’s simple things like that. You and others have raised fair points about the breakdown laws and game time etc but you’ll be right up there come World Cup.

I think you have NZ this autumn which will be a great test to see where you are. I also would not be at all surprised to see you beat Ireland. Ireland have had 1 trickyish away match and they only just scrapped through that so we’ll see how they fare this weekend which is undoubtedly their hardest away match.

 

[E17yid]

For wales if we can secure a 2nd place finish in this transitional phase of our development with the injuries we’ve had that would be great.

As the big Yid said before yesterday’s game you looked at Wales’ fixtures before the 6N and thought we’ll be ok at home but will struggle away which is not exactly massively insightful seeing as England and Ireland are the best teams in the tournament so playing and beating both of them in their back yard is a big ask especially us being where we are.

Lots to be positive about but loads to work on. We haven’t played well for even an hour once during the whole 6N but understandable. Need to finish well against France

 

[E17yid]

Very interesting to see what selection Gats goes for against France. Massive headaches in the back row. Choosing between Navidi, Shingler, Tipuric and James Davies is pretty hard. Then we have Warburton to come back later in the year to cause even more headaches and other players like Lydiate and Moriarty who will find it very hard to even get on the bench. Good problems to have, though.

 

[Japhet]

I'd go with Launchbury and one, but it is certainly difficult to say which one. I thought Maro was better yesterday, but Lawes put himself about. I might start with Lawes and finish with Maro.

Tbh I think Maro needs a rest.

Lawes and Hughes are apparently out of the Ireland match so Maro and Launchbury for me. If Underhill is fit he should start v Ireland IMO. We need somebody who can compete with their back row or it will be a duck shoot. Won't happen but I'd have Dave Ewers in there as well as a ball carrier first and foremost. Without Billy V and Hughes we struggle to get on the front foot even off our own ball. The back row debate has been done to death but it's at the root of our current problems. I'd also like to see Robson get a go. Care is great off the bench but not a starter for me and Wigglesworth only really shines behind a very dominant pack which we won't have v Ireland.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

Six Nations: England's Dylan Hartley and Elliot Daly fit to face Ireland

Hartley starts. Dunno about Daly; Jones might go back to Brown.

 

[E17yid]

This will add a little something to the build up to the Ireland game this weekend. Don’t know how it never really got flagged up over here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43409476

 

[talkshowhost86]

This will add a little something to the build up to the Ireland game this weekend. Don’t know how it never really got flagged up over here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43409476

Really odd that this has come out now.

I'm sure many in Wales and Ireland have said much worse about the English but really not very bright from Eddie. Was only really a matter of time before he said something OTT.

 

[werty]

I'm sure nobody employed by the IRFU or the WRU has said anything like this about any other country.

It's one thing to say it privately, but to do some in a public setting just shows the kind of person Jones is.

 

[mpickard2087]

I don't know whether he thought he was in some blokey/laddish setting where this was meant as banter, but not great comments for a figurehead to make.

Fairly clear though someone has sat on this story until he hits a sticky patch in his tenure, to pile on the aggro.