The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[knowlespurs]

What book ?

Brave new world

 

[jacko73]

Mate, you are so far off the mark on my post.
Poch is a motivator, no doubt. He is no tactical genius. My point is can he deliver silverware with the abilities he has. If yes let's stick with him, if not let's change now. You being a long time Spurs supporter would know how good this current squad was the past few seasons and it's criminal we haven't won anything.
I assume you are talking about Jay Rodriguez, in any event I'm not getting into that discussion cause on the flip side some have gone backward as well if you look closer.

No not Jay rod, the one that played up top in his team, he got a move to liverpool, ah here it is Rikki Lambert.

Apologies if i was miles away from your post, but the only reason i stopped lurking and started posting was I was shocked by the sheer volume of what i would say were more moderate posters on this forum jumping on the poch out brigade. So my posts were more than just a response to you alone, so sorry. Anyway I am going back to lurking as it takes up so much time posting and trying to respond to people, it's a full time job. maybe my posts are too long, I did feel that

I should add that this is a great site and some of you make me laugh out loud and add to my day and only now did i realise how much time it takes to keep posting., so thanks to everyone who takes the trouble.

 

[Teddy Klinsmann]

I read tonight that Christian Gross had a better points return in his last 30 games vs Poch’s last 30 games.

 

[The Doc]

I read tonight that Christian Gross had a better points return in his last 30 games vs Poch’s last 30 games.

Did Christian Gross qualify for the CL in consecutive seasons and/or take us to a CL final? This random selection nonsense works both ways doesn't it? What fun.

 

[muppetman]

No not Jay rod, the one that played up top in his team, he got a move to liverpool, ah here it is Rikki Lambert.

Apologies if i was miles away from your post, but the only reason i stopped lurking and started posting was I was shocked by the sheer volume of what i would say were more moderate posters on this forum jumping on the poch out brigade. So my posts were more than just a response to you alone, so sorry. Anyway I am going back to lurking as it takes up so much time posting and trying to respond to people, it's a full time job. maybe my posts are too long, I did feel that

I should add that this is a great site and some of you make me laugh out loud and add to my day and only now did i realise how much time it takes to keep posting., so thanks to everyone who takes the trouble.

Don't go back to lurking, you're posts are well thought out and explained, we could all do with a bit more of this so keep posting!

 

[sausage]

Can you name me a player that left Pochettino and his career went on from there, I cant, maybe Lallana at a push. So maybe his system or coaching is all it is cracked up to be and that is why he has to push them harder.

That's not a simplistic question.

Clyne did well enough in the season after he left to be bought by Liverpool
As you've mentioned Lallana
Lovren has a CL winners medal
Chambers has improved since
Shaw and Rodriguez both since had broken legs, so they can't be judged based on some sort of post-Pochettino hangover.
Fonte went on to win two international competitions

We've seen peaks and troughs from the same players under him so far, so I don't see how you could attribute the positive without the negative. Wanyama, for example, is now knackered, as was Dembele - Dele has had lots of injuries, as has Kane - does he ruin players long term fitness? You have to at least consider it.

He's a motivator, no doubt, but I think we've seen enough to be unconvinced by his tactical nous. His performance is based heavily on motivation and fitness, and it seems like we're struggling massively when we have neither.

 

[Lighty64]

Our midfield is powder puff.

Asking a motivated focussed in form Eriksen to do a defensive job is bad enough, asking this 2018 - 2019 Eriksen to do that is a pathetic decision.

Look at Winks’s stats. 7 duels only 1 won. Utterly pathetic and Poch plays him as our DM.

Sissoko who is much derided still compared to Winks attempted 8 tackles and won 5. Attempted 4 dribbles out of 4 successfully. Winks had zero dribbles successful. Sissoko even had higher pass accuracy.

Poch has to set up against Everton with Sissoko and NDombele in CM with GLC in front of them.

If he picks Winks again and Eriksen and Rose I will lose my mind.

he definitely can't select Rose, he is suspended

 

[jacko73]

That's not a simplistic question.

Clyne did well enough in the season after he left to be bought by Liverpool
As you've mentioned Lallana
Lovren has a CL winners medal
Chambers has improved since
Shaw and Rodriguez both since had broken legs, so they can't be judged based on some sort of post-Pochettino hangover.
Fonte went on to win two international competitions

We've seen peaks and troughs from the same players under him so far, so I don't see how you could attribute the positive without the negative. Wanyama, for example, is now knackered, as was Dembele - Dele has had lots of injuries, as has Kane - does he ruin players long term fitness? You have to at least consider it.

He's a motivator, no doubt, but I think we've seen enough to be unconvinced by his tactical nous. His performance is based heavily on motivation and fitness, and it seems like we're struggling massively when we have neither.

and you pulled me back in...

I definitely consider that he knackers them, but is he squeezing more out of players i.e they were not top tier players to start with so his system and high fitness allows us to close the gap at the top. Consider this, we are not known (for a long time) to have top quality players 1 or 2 yes not 7-8. The day he walked through the door he had 7-8 of our best team sitting waiting for him, then year 2 he added wanyama and toby and then alli and son. None of these were out of the ordinary signings in terms of money spent. so firstly it's worrying that we have barely added anyone of note in 3 years (big problem) and in our club we don't know who to blame for this. Secondly has he wrecked them or did they just get old, does the PL wreck players? Thirdly, they have all played for him for at least 3 years, so where they due to stop listening to him or did he do well to get a tune out them for this long? I don't have the answers by the way.

Here is what I do know, no other team that Poch is measured against (the other top 5) has found 7-8 first teamers in the squad all just sitting there and we are talking a serious collection of excellent mangers. Even Pep, who they prepared for to come in has not found that and they all spent considerably more than us before he (poch) arrived. do you not think that is strange? We also do not compete in wages or fee's with any of the top 5 we lose every time we go in with even 1 of them. I am pretty sure we wanted scneiderlin, mane, martial, wjinaldum (sp), willian and hazzard we did not get 1. But when we measure Poch on trophies we say he competed but did not win anything I dont think that is fair.

So do we compete with them in reality, no. So he does not get any of their targets and he has to keep his players longer in the main (not all) and yet we as fans think he stood a chance, no. what do you think that does as a player for both sides in mentality always knowing we failed to do the deals. when you are talking at the top level of sports and those fine margins, is it any surprise that we lose in the big match ups?

By the way dont think i am being rude, but your list is pretty weak we would not pay the transfer fee's that they all went for in fact we had done it twice at that moment in time,- lovren may have a champions league medal, but Matip started and Gomes came on from memory. so he played 0 mins v us and i dont watch their matches to know if played others. He is not a regular player and probably 5th choice so can he be a success, i realise he did play for them, but think he is being phased out. Maybe all those southampton old boys that got moves to all the big northern teams showed how good pochettino was and that the players were individually not good. Seems weird that last year toby, rose and Eriksen all never got moves.

When i said who has gone on to perform well i think only Lalana and that may be because he breaks them all, but that also means he breaks them in 2 years as that is all that he had at Southampton and you only had their players. None of our old players were in your list, i think this also means that he is better than most of our old managers as it means he did not bin off good quality.

As for the Mourinho fanboys who think he walks in to tottenham and wins trophies - 2 of the best players in the premier league were binned off by him, he does not recognise quality any longer. It gets worse for him he spent 175 million in 2 windows at UTD and i dont think you will get more than 2 players that still play in their first team.

 

[Bobbins]

Poch is a good manager that is not a question for debate, he’s probably even a great one, to be voted in the top 3 coaches at the fifa awards says it all. I used to love the guy when he was happy poch and I have so much time for him given what he’s achieved with us and where he’s taken the team and club from and to now. BUT he certainly has his flaws and our form has been poor for around 12 months now and a LOT of it has been down to him:
-constantly changing the team
-continuing to pick his ‘favourite’ players when they’re badly off form or wanting to leave
-stubbornly continuing with the diamond formation for AGESSSS when it clearly wasn’t working
-not reacting in games with tactical changes
-not making subs or changing the game until it’s too late
-fucking stupid experiments like winks DM, Sanchez RB over actual RB’s
-taking ages to integrate and play new signings
-negativity and contradicting himself in the media

so I’m sorry but for me it will be better for everyone if he now moves on at the end of this season. All good things come to an end and I really hope we can win the FA CUP as that has always been our cup it was the cup the Argentines made famous for us villa and ardiles so for him to win that and then leave this summer would be the perfect end.

He's good, not great. He can't ever be called a great manager until he wins something.

All the weird little behavioural and personality traits would, like Jose, be perfectly acceptable if he produced winning results.

He might be considered a great manager in future, as I'm sure he's capable of winning things. Just not in this country, and not with Spurs.

 

[Sandros Shiny Head]

You can tell it’s been nearly a week since we last played, he’s getting defended again. No chance we win this week, can’t believe he’s still at the club

 

[nicdic]

You have a point, but there were signs (the amazing performance to beat City 2-0 without Kane), and you never saw those group of players on the pitch and thought that they weren't playing for him for one second.

Look at our results at the time. Lots of draws, 2 losses by one goal to Manchester United and Chelsea, but never consistent maulings or completely abject performances in the league anyway. Having watched a couple of the Champions League games live I believe Wembley nerves played a large part and it didn't help us that we were playing quick counter attacking sides like Monaco.

I really don't think this is a case of a poor run of form now. It's being going on for far too long. No team functioning properly gets spanked by Bayern 7-2 only to play worse a few days later and get hammered by Brighton.

I made no points about this season, purely trying to correct this idea that seems to keep coming up about how wonderful we were for the whole of that season. It’s a myth. We were turgid for the first half of the season with the exception of a couple of games. Form wasn’t like it is now, and clearly more is going on now than just form. But they weren’t the points being made.

 

[ginola99]

I read tonight that Christian Gross had a better points return in his last 30 games vs Poch’s last 30 games.

Link?

 

[$hoguN]

Did Christian Gross qualify for the CL in consecutive seasons and/or take us to a CL final? This random selection nonsense works both ways doesn't it? What fun.

There is always another argument to make. Did Gross have the same quality of squad?

 

[Shadydan]

There is always another argument to make. Did Gross have the same quality of squad?

You're actually entertaining this argument? Really?

 

[$hoguN]

You're actually entertaining this argument? Really?

No, it’s quite clear that Pochettino is an infinitely better manager.

 

[Gilzeanking]

He's a motivator, no doubt, but I think we've seen enough to be unconvinced by his tactical nous. His performance is based heavily on motivation and fitness, and it seems like we're struggling massively when we have neither.

Agreed , however I'd add that we are struggling as we no longer have fitness advantages as other Prem teams have now caught on to the superfitness concept . So just our motivation and fitness aren't enough anymore .

 

[Gassin's finest]

I work in risk reward and have followed Tottnham all my life. This is such a big moment in our clubs future. We have been competing with the big boys on the pitch, but not even competing with everton and leicester off it, mainly because levy took his eye off the ball to get the stadium done and thought like a lot of people that you keep the great team together, but this team has been run into the ground.

If it is that easy to get a new manager why have chelsea, arsenal and Man utd all failed with their big budgets to stay with us. They all took risks with their managers in the job right now and at the moment chelsea look to be the only ones to really pay off, but it's so early yet, lets see how they go when they have a loss or two.

Pochettino performed very well for 2 seasons at saints and then an ok season in year 1, then had 4 good years with us and this one is not great, he is proven and the pattern is good for us. But we have to accept that this team needs changing quick to help him improve the performances I think we had a good start in the summer, but this time it cant just be a team that we sign we must sign competition to enable rest for our players. We need Levy to come up with the goods in Jan (he never does) and next summer. Or we will be saying goodbye to Kane I think, by the way the only manger that i would trust to get us another Kane is Poch, i still do not know how he got the Southampton forward to be so good, I cant remember his name.

Can you name me a player that left Pochettino and his career went on from there, I cant, maybe Lallana at a push. So maybe his system or coaching is all it is cracked up to be and that is why he has to push them harder.

Kyle Walker.

 

[Shadydan]

No, it’s quite clear that Pochettino is an infinitely better manager.

Exactly pointless debate

 

[Deleted member 29446]

You can tell it’s been nearly a week since we last played, he’s getting defended again. No chance we win this week, can’t believe he’s still at the club

It’s the weekly cycle in this thread. First few days after a game it’s all on Poch out. Then after the defenders of him comes in again. And you usually get spammed every Thursday/Friday which is quite funny.

 

[Monkey boy]

No, it’s quite clear that Pochettino is an infinitely better manager.

Although Mr.Gross has a lot more of those shiney silver things we keep hearing about kicking about in his cabinet