The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[tiger666]

Just a little reminder, this was from May 24th This year :-

[B]Dan Kilpatrick[/B]‏Verified account @[B]Dan_KP[/B] May 24
#thfc BREAKING: Poch & his staff have signed new 5-year deals until 2023. He has received assurances from Levy that there will be significant funds to spend this summer to take the club to the next level. A host of key players set to follow.

I'm sure there are funds available. I've not seen any media report or ITK saying we have no money, on the contrary, we've been told repeatedly by different ITK that our lack of transfers isn't about money.

 

[LeParisien]

You're going to find it very difficult to convince football fans (myself included) that this assumption isn't the case.

Especially when the whole professional footballing world for the last 60+ years assumes this to be true.

As I have said, coaches at Spurs have viewed the transfer market as far less important than fans do. Why is this?

I’m going to work by analogy that (completely coincidentally) an academy coach at spurs told me. We were discussing why people buy lottery tickets. I said I thought it was ridiculous and irrational because the chances of winning are so slim. He agreed but said the reason people buy lottery tickets is not because they think they’ll win - but because the 10 minutes around buying the ticket every week gives them a chance to escape humdrum reality and fantasise about what they’d spend the money on. That is worth the couple of quid they spend every week.

And he’s bloody right !!

And here’s the thing ... the transfer window is EXCATLY THE SAME THING FOR FOOTBALL FANS. It is not (only) that there might be rational reasons for buying players that everyone gets so fraught... it is because buying players .. especially big money signings... gives us an opportunity to fantasise about the potential that the side now has and the things we might achieve. It’s the same beautiful escapism as buying a lottery ticket.

That is why Hercules’ early itk was such a powerful aphrodisiac.

However people who have a professional responsibility to deal with those players day to day acknowledge that there are so many factors to success (just like there are in your line of work!). Here are a very few:
- Squad cohesion
- Clear strategy
- Staying injury free / fitness
- Buying the right players on a mental, emotional, technical and tactical dimension.
- Luck

But there are loads more.

Signing players is a really important piece of the puzzle but only if they are the right players and only at the right price.

I’ll add something else on - success correlates more strongly with wages than transfer fees. Look at Real Madrid the last couple of years or Bayern’s consistency. And our moves to tie down our best players...

 

[LeParisien]

I don't want new players for the sake of it but I think the transfer window is to be judged not only by next years results (which can be affected by many variables).

It is also about strategy regarding the steady strengthening and regeneration of the squad list (including responding to chronic injuries) and providing for the future, putting ourselves in a position to continue to grow and take advantage if teams like city falter. It's also about ensuring that in future windows we are in a position where we can move on opportunities.

We don't seem to have done that well recently on this (with some exceptions), some of which is of our own making, some of which is not. We need to clean up the list and that will mean taking losses now on certain players and perhaps paying up for one or two critical spots if we can get a suitable player. Otherwise all the stuff that is making it hard for us this window is just gonna get worse.

I disagree. We have the youngest squad in the league don’t we ?

How can that not be preparing for the future ???

 

[Metalhead]

£200k a week is not a bad ambition

They want to win trophies too. Believe me, if we don't start winning trophies then we won't attain the level of a true top 4 club.

 

[aussie spur]

I disagree. We have the youngest squad in the league don’t we ?

How can that not be preparing for the future ???

Just as next years result is not the sole metric to judge a window, the age of players is not the only metric to judge planning for the future.

We have four too many non home grown players, our cm consists of an ageing injury prone legend, a player pilloried far and wide for his lack of technical ability and an injured up and comer. The TWO strikers we have bought are unsuited to our style of play and are not played by the manager, yet prevent us making new signings. These are some of the examples I had in mind of the problems with the list and poor list management (for the future, which includes the next windows).

Also I agree about the psychological effect of getting new things, but it is NOT exactly the same as the lottery. Signings are far more likely to produce an outcome, even if not the fantasised one.

 

[Metalhead]

I hate how everything gets so polarising/binary these days, makes more sense on social media but it still seeps into forums where more discussion is possible.

I personally think Levy does a great job and I accept his transfer profile of buying high potential players that also retain resale value. I think it's great. My issue is when we find players in that profile and drag our heels to try and squeeze every single penny out of the deals. I can explain all that and close by mentioning that I think we can afford to ease off on that and overpay slightly to wrap up certain deals in better time...


...and within minutes I'll be told how this isn't sustainable and reckless, others will act like I want us to spend £200m net every summer, and no doubt someone will bring up Leeds Utd before long.

A lot of posts on here are in that middle ground. I feel the same. I don't think that the club will melt down next Thursday if we don't sign anyone but equally it saddens me a bit that some fans are more like accountants, feeling that they have to protect the clubs bottom line or that trophies are almost unimportant. We do need to start winning trophies or players will not be inclined to sign new contracts. We do need investment in the team to keep achieving the (admittedly) tough objective of reaching top 4 (but obviously aiming for the title) and to try and win trophies.

Last season was great but no one can deny that it highlighted areas of the team that need addressing. It doesn't matter how much we pay our players, they want to win trophies, we as fans should want the same and the perception will remain that Spurs are a 'nearly, team' until we do.

 

[Scott Spur]

It's "they're" and "you're" you colonial pillock.

If you're going to sit the other side of the Atlantic spouting bollocks about a sport your obese, rifle toting comrades generally ignore at least do us the decency of not butchering the Queen's English while you're doing it.

Best post of the window so far, take a bow son......

 

[CanberraSpur]

I'm assuming everyone has caught up with MP saying he's in fact "not relaxed" about our shit show of a transfer window? Shortly after Steve Bruce all but implied we've made a derisory offer for Grealish. We're becoming a joke.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I'm assuming everyone has caught up with MP saying he's in fact "not relaxed" about our shit show of a transfer window? Shortly after Steve Bruce all but implied we've made a derisory offer for Grealish. We're becoming a joke.

Crumbs chief, we're doomed.

 

[topper]

Not sure if this has been posted earlier but it's from Edmonton on COYS whose a fairly knowledgable individual with, I expect, good links to the club and not normally prone to outbursts:

Our TW performance isn’t going to keep players or coaches medium term and I can see a half empty stadium down the line when this was our great chance to kick on. Fans being fussy about the genuine chance of getting Bale this summer seems a long way away now.

 

[spursfan77]

I have generally been a fully paid up member of bsodl but I'm getting a bit worried. Poch's comments yesterday shows his frustration and if he's getting pissed off then maybe things aren't all under control.

We'll see - I think we need three decent signings to appease the masses and more importantly give us the squad we need to challenge.

I agree with you 100%, although I think we can all see it’s a mess. No signings in or out, no players loaned out all summer either. Something is up with our transfer business and Poch isn’t happy.

I just can’t see us doing our business in time and I think those who keep saying “wait until the window closes” are just walking blindly towards it. There’s been no activity at all. It’s bizarre to say the least.

 

[LeParisien]

Just as next years result is not the sole metric to judge a window, the age of players is not the only metric to judge planning for the future.

We have four too many non home grown players, our cm consists of an ageing injury prone legend, a player pilloried far and wide for his lack of technical ability and an injured up and comer. The TWO strikers we have bought are unsuited to our style of play and are not played by the manager, yet prevent us making new signings. These are some of the examples I had in mind of the problems with the list and poor list management (for the future, which includes the next windows).

Also I agree about the psychological effect of getting new things, but it is NOT exactly the same as the lottery. Signings are far more likely to produce an outcome, even if not the fantasised one.

I appreciate your considered responses!

I agree that success over one season is not the ONLY metric by which to measure a window. As you astutely point out, there are long term squad management aims that must be achieved over severa windows. Great point.

Your specific points about our current squad imbalances strike me as all being true.

I agree the lottery ticket analogy is not a full and complete parallel of fans’ desires. It simply points to our human desire to escape reality for a moment. The professionals in charge must stay very much in touch with reality and see that signing players must only be done under specific circumstances and is only a piece of the puzzle (a smaller piece than fans pretend at this time of year!).

 

[LeParisien]

Not sure if this has been posted earlier but it's from Edmonton on COYS whose a fairly knowledgable individual with, I expect, good links to the club and not normally prone to outbursts:

Our TW performance isn’t going to keep players or coaches medium term and I can see a half empty stadium down the line when this was our great chance to kick on. Fans being fussy about the genuine chance of getting Bale this summer seems a long way away now.

None of that is itk - it’s all opinion.

 

[Majick]

A half-empty stadium is 30k so that's a bit alarmist, but otherwise sure, if we lose players and don't replace them properly, the club will get worse. But that would be contrary to the general upward trend of the last 15 years.

 

[Metalhead]

Crumbs chief, we're doomed.

Shush Penfold.

 

[topper]

None of that is itk - it’s all opinion.

You're entitled to your opinion!

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

As I have said, coaches at Spurs have viewed the transfer market as far less important than fans do. Why is this?

I’m going to work by analogy that (completely coincidentally) an academy coach at spurs told me. We were discussing why people buy lottery tickets. I said I thought it was ridiculous and irrational because the chances of winning are so slim. He agreed but said the reason people buy lottery tickets is not because they think they’ll win - but because the 10 minutes around buying the ticket every week gives them a chance to escape humdrum reality and fantasise about what they’d spend the money on. That is worth the couple of quid they spend every week.

And he’s bloody right !!

And here’s the thing ... the transfer window is EXCATLY THE SAME THING FOR FOOTBALL FANS. It is not (only) that there might be rational reasons for buying players that everyone gets so fraught... it is because buying players .. especially big money signings... gives us an opportunity to fantasise about the potential that the side now has and the things we might achieve. It’s the same beautiful escapism as buying a lottery ticket.

That is why Hercules’ early itk was such a powerful aphrodisiac.

However people who have a professional responsibility to deal with those players day to day acknowledge that there are so many factors to success (just like there are in your line of work!). Here are a very few:
- Squad cohesion
- Clear strategy
- Staying injury free / fitness
- Buying the right players on a mental, emotional, technical and tactical dimension.
- Luck

But there are loads more.

Signing players is a really important piece of the puzzle but only if they are the right players and only at the right price.

I’ll add something else on - success correlates more strongly with wages than transfer fees. Look at Real Madrid the last couple of years or Bayern’s consistency. And our moves to tie down our best players...

This is a really interesting post, but I have to respectfully disagree. Buying new players might be similar to buying a lottery ticket, but its also more complex and different to that too. The bulk of us don't really want to spend for the sake of it, we feel it necessary because we've identified gaps or potential deficiencies in the squad. In fact, given one of the key reasons why we haven't bought yet- being unable to sell unwanted players to free up space do new signings- buying for the sake of an aphrodisiac like effect doesn't really cut it against the gaps and deficiencies argument as was the case when many of us felt Sissoko was unnecessary at the time he was bought. Furthermore, we've heard from various itk sources that the club feels that there are key areas that will be addressed in the transfer window with appropriate signings that match Poch and some of the senior players' ambitions. I'm hopeful these needs will be addressed in the next six days but it would be wrong to dismiss all this if we fail to sign the types of players that address these areas and then claim that it was never really necessary and things are absolutely fine as they currently stand

 

[Wiggly_worm]

How would you judge their spending if we ended up 3rd and they 2nd yet we only brought one player in ?

I would say we’d of had the more successful season comparing us with them...

but while qualifying for champions league is vital, if Liverpool win a trophy and we don’t then I’d say Liverpool have had the more successful season creating a winners mentality and success on the pitch.

Spurs now need success to take that next step in our progression as a club we need to win something, even if it’s a cup we need that this season otherwises our key players including poch if not backed will look at the past 3 years of their careers with no honours to their names and will think they need to move on to achieve their ambitions.

Right now if your a Jan, Ali, Dier, eriksen, even kane your looking at the club to see what they going to do to invest in this squad to compete for honours and if they feel the ambition isn’t the same as theirs they will eventually walk, maybe not this season but next...

May I say I don’t expect this to happen as I believe levy will deliver for poch in the next 7 days, call me optimistic but i will wait til the end of the window before I judge levy.

 

[yankspurs]

I'm assuming everyone has caught up with MP saying he's in fact "not relaxed" about our shit show of a transfer window? Shortly after Steve Bruce all but implied we've made a derisory offer for Grealish. We're becoming a joke.

Becoming?

 

[LeParisien]

This is a really interesting post, but I have to respectfully disagree. Buying new players might be similar to buying a lottery ticket, but its also more complex and different to that too. The bulk of us don't really want to spend for the sake of it, we feel it necessary because we've identified gaps or potential deficiencies in the squad. In fact, given one of the key reasons why we haven't bought yet- being unable to sell unwanted players to free up space do new signings- buying for the sake of an aphrodisiac like effect doesn't really cut it against the gaps and deficiencies argument as was the case when many of us felt Sissoko was unnecessary at the time he was bought. Furthermore, we've heard from various itk sources that the club feels that there are key areas that will be addressed in the transfer window with appropriate signings that match Poch and some of the senior players' ambitions. I'm hopeful these needs will be addressed in the next six days but it would be wrong to dismiss all this if we fail to sign the types of players that address these areas and then claim that it was never really necessary and things are absolutely fine as they currently stand

Yeh I agree with a lot of what you say.

The comment of mine you quoted was part of a thread. No one has time on a forum to check through the whole thread for the conversation like some sort of academic exercise and so peoples comments are frequently taken as a global statement of their beliefs when in actual fact it’s highly contextual.

My beliefs seem to be very similar to yours. We have gaps that by all accounts the club has identified. They are working towards making appropriate signings.

The argument I had been making was very limited - that we need to view the transfer window in light of the season. If the results are good this season then it would have been a successful transfer window.

Of course that doesn’t help us now. But as stated above - the club is being linked with signings that would take us forward.