The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE LAST DAY! 1st September 2014

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

From the outset it has been presumed that MoPo wanted MS. What I can't understand is why he wasn't allowed or given the opportunity to purchase him before Liverpiss jumped in with their hyper inflated purchases. MoPo did not need to assess the players for this decision to be made. Can someone give me a sensible answer?

Liverpool had clearly targeted Lovren and Lallana from the end of last season. So surely that when they first approached Saints and negotiations began.

We on the other hand didn't appoint Pochettino until the beginning of June and then we had a slew of ITK stating that he wanted to assess the squad during preseason before deciding where we needed to strengthen.

So I would guess that is why it took us a while to approach Schneiderlin. It seems pretty simple IMO.

 

[Only 1 Spurs]

First of all id like to say I love Tottenham whole hearted and I will always back the team and manager here are my thoughts on things over the last few years.
I think the frustration with the fans come from the same old story and routine we have had a 5 year plan for years and its failed due to Levy/the board growing tired of the manager and sacking them. Avb was the cherry on top for me, Some say he was backed some say he wasnt, who of the players brought in were his actual players that he wanted? I remember in his last press conference he hinted that the players brought in were not his and the same story seems to be repeating itself once again.ofcourse Poch is going to say hes happy im sure we heard the same from Avb but for me he wasnt backed with his players he seemed completely betrayed and once his relationship with Levy soured he was always going one way.
I do wonder how so many managers weve had have been given full backing since the arrival of Enic? And wonder even more as to why if the manager has been backed why would the relationship with Levy turn so bad so quickly.
Yes we have a world class training facility and the go ahead for a top stadium but these are things that will ultimately line enics and Levy's pockets when it comes to selling the club. The fact is the team is suffering we are now in decline from what could have been a golden time imo we were so close to becoming a regular top 4 Side and indeed under redknapp got their twice but in the market we failed to capitalise and since then we have sold off players for massive profit and replaced them with youngsters and players who are not as good that is a fact hence the decline in league positioning.

clubs are again way ahead while we are treading water they rebuilt and again are streets ahead the way Liverpool have taken us apart the past 3 times without really hitting top gear is so very evident and that is were the frustration stems from. Until that stadium has been built and enic sell up we will tread water and slip away from the top 5 and that is when the real 5 year plan will start in my opinion. I hope Poch can coach these players and bring in a never say die attitude last Sunday we looked lost and clueless I just hope the players wake up and see Poch's philosophy sooner rather than later or I fear he will go the same way as Avb. (sorry about spelling and spacing im doing this on my phone). Until next time you awesome crazy mofos. Its been emotional.

 

[Ossie85]

Those slating Porch for being stubborn are way off the mark.

Yes, he wanted MS but was willing to take Stambouli.

He wanted MM but took Fazio.

He wanted JRod but was going to settle for Welbeck until Arsenal showed up and paid 16 mil, which is a bit steep for him and we rightfully were reluctant to pay that much.

He took plan B guys and it has been said he is happy with the current squad.

Stubborn would have been MM and MS or nobody else.

I'm relying on Trix ITK, and he doesn't say that.
Pochettino still wants MS and J Rod. So he didn't settle for Stambouli, he will still want MS and J Rod on January. That's why I say he's being stubborn.
Trix in fact says we didn't sign Welbeck, because Poch wanted J Rod with or without Welbeck.
So at the end, he agreed on some plan D players, but he still wants the plan A. So I understand Levy's reluctance to spend +15m on a player if he will have to do it again in january.

 

[Gb160]

Difference being that he is out of contract next summer so will be available cheaper than he would have been now.

Jrod contract ends summer 2016
Morgan Schneiderlin contract ends summer 2017
Ain't gonna be much cheaper in January.

 

[tom4s]

This is such a good summary of our transfer window from Ben Pearce, I find nothing to add to it:
http://www.tottenhamjournal.co.uk/t...t_a_step_towards_stability_at_spurs_1_3754395

You can lock the thread now

 

[dagraham]

Just because you want something, does not mean you should overpay to get it - value is relative, but everything comes with a limit. It could be that we could have paid the £27M asking price for Schniederlin, but then we would have had to sell more parts, or not brought in other players. Its all one big balancing act, where you can't look at a single transaction in isolation.

One question I've raised and not really had any answer to is why we didn't increase our bid once we knew we were not signing MM. Unless every single media source and ITK were wrong, we had sanctioned bids for MM and MS totalling around £35m. So unless they were a joke, it's safe to say we could afford it. We then signed Fazio for about £10m less, so why wasn't some of the money not then redirected to making a larger bid for MS.

Obviously this may have been done out of the glare of the media, but again all indications are that we didn't even attempt to meet Southampton halfway. If we had and they said £27m or nothing I could understand, but it seems we were just too stubborn and expected them to cave in.

 

[Ossie85]

Well look at that we now have a new record holder for blaming the new manager on a transfer window.

3 matches in and the problems
are bc of Poch. Just a coincidence the same problems plagued the last 3 managers too.

If only there was a constant in all of these disappointing transfer windows, hmm I guess we'll never know. Oh well, POCH OUT

I never said Poch out. I don't give a fuck about how many games have we played. It's got nothing to do with the transfer dealings
And if read my post carefully, you would understand it makes more sense than to blame Levy for not spending 27m on Morgan fucking schneiderlin

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Because Levy thought that he could do a better deal in the final few hours than making a move earlier in the window.
Once again he was wrong.

Alternatively he wanted to reduce squad size/wage bill first - but again left that a bit late.

You are not the only to hold this view, but we really don't know any of that.

By all the ITK accounts we got, we have been negotiating over Schneiderlin for a long time. Yes, we probably low-balled the first offer - that just how Levy is. But everyone has suggested that we have gone back to the negotiating table in good faith with better offers. There is nothing to suggest we waited until deadline day to make a move here - quite the opposite.

We did not to reduce the size of the squad - unfortunately we are in an awkward position, where players do not want to leave for "lesser" clubs for either less money, or just the idea of playing for a lower club. Look at Sandro and Dawson - two players who could still provide value to their clubs, but we still had a hard time moving them. Holtby, really wanted to be a part of this team - it took until the deadline to convince him he was not going to get a bigger part on this squad.

We had reports over the last week that both Townsend and Lennon did not want to move on to new clubs.

Moving players in and out is not easy business. These are real people involved who all have their own agendas and priorities. Its not as simple as pressing a button, and selling or buying a player. Its not as simple as saying we waited too long to make things happen, I have no doubt Levy and Co have been trying to move the pieces around for weeks.

 

[SpursDave88]

Christ. Where do these monkeys come from? Suddenly on the final day of the window the forum comes alive with these doom-mongers and nay-sayers. All perspective lost because of what exactly? We didn't get a last minute wonder deal, but did we need one.
One thing was clear at the start of the window; the defense needed sorting. It had a complete overhaul with a new lb, cb, rb and rookie who has already become almost a cult figure. The only disappointment was not getting the moustache but hey, fazio is pretty decent and is certain to be an upgrade on Dawson. Basically we did exactly what was required.
But we didn't get MS! At the beginning of the window our midfield was massively overloaded; it needed trimming and it became vey obvious, very early that he wasn't going to be anything other than exorbitantly over priced. But what did we need him for? Nobody really had the measure of our midfielders after last season. Capoue didnt play enough, paulinho was obviously being played out of position, bentaleb is developing, Sandro just wasnt the same, holtby wasnt improving, Dembele has it all but needs a partner to speed up the passing. The real problem as was so cruelly exposed by liverpool was, aside from Sandro there wasnt a dominating presence in midfield, hence the need for MS. we didnt get him but we did buy Stambouli who is a classic destroyer and shipped out Sandro and holtby. Im sad to see Sandro go but i am glad that poch is making sensible decisions and replacing him like for like.
Finally the clamour for a lwf. We've got, count 'em, 2 AMs who are left footed; townsend and lamela. 2 who are right footed but happy to play on the left; eriksen and chadli. But the main reason im bemused by this is that they are en ouraged to swap positions at all times so a dedicated lwf seems completely unneccessary.
We've got 3 good strikers for 1 position.
I just cant see this as anything other than a sensible, focused and successful window, leaving us with what we need rather than what we childishly desire.

No

Paulinho, Dembele, Bentaleb and Capoue have thus far shown themselves to be nowhere near the required standard, that's why Poch wanted Schneiderlin, who we didn't get. To then turn round and say he is happy is nonsense. If he was happy with what he had we would never had tried for Schnederlin in the first place.

Second, Fazio is an unknown quantity, I will reserve judgement, but we all know that Mussachio was the one he really wanted. Also I would say we have clearly gone for a lesser player since if they were felt to be of comparable ability we would have gone for Fazio at 8m Vs Mussachio at 20m every time. Can that be considered a success, to fail to get your targets?

 

[Blackrat1299]

Liverpool had clearly targeted Lovren and Lallana from the end of last season. So surely that when they first approached Saints and negotiations began.

We on the other hand didn't appoint Pochettino until the beginning of June and then we had a slew of ITK stating that he wanted to assess the squad during preseason before deciding where we needed to strengthen.

So I would guess that is why it took us a while to approach Schneiderlin. It seems pretty simple IMO.

I will have to get onto my teacher about that!

 

[yido_number1]

One question I've raised and not really had any answer to is why we didn't increase our bid once we knew we were not signing MM. Unless every single media source and ITK were wrong, we had sanctioned bids for MM and MS totalling around £35m. So unless they were a joke, it's safe to say we could afford it. We then signed Fazio for about £10m less, so why wasn't some of the money not then redirected to making a larger bid for MS.

Obviously this may have been done out of the glare of the media, but again all indications are that we didn't even attempt to meet Southampton halfway. If we had and they said £27m or nothing I could understand, but it seems we were just too stubborn and expected them to cave in.

I guess they are considering the future resell price of the asset (MS) when considering how much he is worth. I guess one reason we have a low net spend is that we pay generally the right price for players and treat each deal exclusively from the next.

It might be a football club and a sport, but it is a business now and needs to stay operated as one to keep it solvent. Over spending on one player isn't going to bankrupt us, but fans expect the club to do it every year. A lot of people are frustrated we didnt spend more money but if Fazio turns out to be as good as MM and Stambouli is as good as MS is that not wise business? As long as the club has the right quality of player I dont care if they cost 27m or 7m.

 

[PhezTHFC]

Great window on here this summer again as always! I have set up a reoccurring £10 a month payment. Hope it helps!

 

[codspur]

10:00 - Mix.
10:30 - Pour.
11:00 - Set.

Better?

This is my favourite post of the last week

 

[thebetamaxboy]

He makes an annual statement regards the accounts to that effect. There's numerous newspaper articles, and stuff in the New Stadium thread from all sorts of news sources. But more than that, just go to the bloody stadium and see the work that's already taken place. Basically you can't blame someone else if you haven't taken more of an interest, and you can't say the information hasn't been communicated effectively to you, when it clearly has to me and others. If I know it, and have kept abreast of the latest news with little effort, then it can't be the club can it?

I've seen the 'progress' on site in terms of clearing space! local amenities but I've still yet to see anything in terms of an actual stadium, we changed architects relatively recently so I dare say it will be a while yet before we do. Two years ago our official line was we wanted the Olympic stadium and this was after we announced our original plans with the first architects. I've yet to see an actual direct statement from levy to the fans or even supporters trust citing that all funds are being redirected to the new stadium at the expense of investing in the squad on the official site/twitter feed (which might perhaps be relevant places to put something) the other channels you suggest are open to interpretation. my guess is that levy is still looking for alternatives to building a stadium at white hart lane or hoping we get local/government backing and infrastructure which may take a while, So I personally feel the stadium is at least 5+ years away and a whole lot of moneyballing.

 

[yido_number1]

No

Paulinho, Dembele, Bentaleb and Capoue have thus far shown themselves to be nowhere near the required standard, that's why Poch wanted Schneiderlin, who we didn't get. To then turn round and say he is happy is nonsense. If he was happy with what he had we would never had tried for Schnederlin in the first place.

Second, Fazio is an unknown quantity, I will reserve judgement, but we all know that Mussachio was the one he really wanted. Also I would say we have clearly gone for a lesser player since if they were felt to be of comparable ability we would have gone for Fazio at 8m Vs Mussachio at 20m every time. Can that be considered a success, to fail to get your targets?

Depends how you see it. Captain of Sevilla and CB of the Europa league winners who finished 5th in the spanish league or Captain and CB of VillaReal who won nothing and finished 6th?

 

[chinaman]

Anyway, what the fuck? It's time to batten down and get on with it.

And what's with this bloody International week doing getting in the way again?

COYS

This break is good for us. Gives Poch extra time to mould the team.

 

[SpursDave88]

Depends how you see it. Captain of Sevilla and CB of the Europa league winners who finished 5th in the spanish league or Captain and CB of VillaReal who won nothing and finished 6th?

Two points in response.

1. Fazio was made captain this season, after Sevilla's two best players, Rakitic the captain and Moreno were sold.

2. We both know that's a nonsense argument, Liverpool finished above Arsenal, would you rather have Koscielny and Mertesacker or Toure and Skrtel?

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

No

To then turn round and say he is happy is nonsense. If he was happy with what he had we would never had tried for Schnederlin in the first place.

We've had ITK saying that Poch thought the £27m valuation of Schneiderlin was too much and he was fully involved in targeting Stambouli as an alternative.

He wanted Schneiderlin because he knew he had the qualities to implement his system but he isn't the only player in the world who does, that's why we signed a more realistically priced alternative.

He was also happy to wait until Jan for Rodriguez rather than us sign Welbeck.

 

[AAspur]

One question I've raised and not really had any answer to is why we didn't increase our bid once we knew we were not signing MM. Unless every single media source and ITK were wrong, we had sanctioned bids for MM and MS totalling around £35m. So unless they were a joke, it's safe to say we could afford it. We then signed Fazio for about £10m less, so why wasn't some of the money not then redirected to making a larger bid for MS.

Obviously this may have been done out of the glare of the media, but again all indications are that we didn't even attempt to meet Southampton halfway. If we had and they said £27m or nothing I could understand, but it seems we were just too stubborn and expected them to cave in.

Exactly right...how can u judge a new manager when he doesnt get the player he requests ?? it would be interesting to see how much DL wastes each year on sacked managers/backroom staff severance packages and compare it to the difference between the asking price of a player requested by the sacked manager and how much we offered....
this nickel and dime approach is putting us in a constant state of flux , where we bring a new manager in , fail to buy the players he requests ( even when said players are obtainable and keen to come ) , buy cheaper/lesser alternatives, sack manager , bring in a new one who wants to change the squad and bring his own players in and the so it goes on...all this whilst charging the second highest season ticket prices in the League..

 

[Locotoro]

Or Capoue could play a more Schneiderlin/Bentelab role, and leave Stam to do the pure holding?

Stambouli was definitely bought to partner Capoue not to be his replacement!

I had watched him play a few times for Montpellier and not really remembered him but then when i realised we were in for him gone back and found out "oh he was that player?!, nice". If you thought Sandro was a beast, this guy matches everything Sandro does on the pitch and also has a touch of class like Emanuel Petit had.

Once he learns the English language I wouldnt be surprised to see him go on to be vice-captain and eventually our captain as he really has the determination and drive and he is also appeared to be very vocal in those matches i saw.

I think he will turn out to be a better option than Scheneiderlin and one of our best signings of the Poch era.