The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 10th August

[SpartanSpur]

It's mad that this is still happening when you consider we've just sold an academy graduate (and top earner) for an enormous sum of money, and before that we were already in a great place in terms of FFP.

Most fans are happy enough with the new data/scouting led recruitment and Ange is clearly flexible on targets, there is absolutely no need to try and screw every penny possible out of every deal.

Use this situation to clear huge amounts off the wage bill and still have plenty of scope to add 2-3 quality players this window and actually fully round off the squad for once.

Hate to say it but the owners up the road are showing Levy how a truly ambitious club should act.

 

[N'Obody]

Thanks for the updates @Hercules and @What Lies Beneath. Its just a shame this is how it is, but all we can do is just wait till the end of the window. We can't change or control the outcome. Let's just hope things just happen to work out for the best.

 

[Dazzazzad]

Is there anybody at the club questioning or pointing out we're always in the same situation?
This should be the reset to clear the decks and give AP a chance, but the resistance of progression, of changing bloody minded working methods is tiresome.

The squad is good though. If anything Ange has too many tools to work with. I really don't get the doom loop stuff.

And while I'm sure criticism for Levy being stubborn is accurate quite often, they way people talk we should sign 15 players every window and then sell most of them a year later for a pittance and bring in 15 more. Also sometimes his stubbornness probably pays off - like LoCelso who was a "just give him away" player just a few weeks ago and now he's probably a 30+ million asset again and people wouldn't want us to sell.

I enjoy a new signing but it seems crazy how much emphasis is thrown on new signings just because we can project positivity into them because they haven't worn the shirt yet.

I'm sure we'll get a couple more in. And we'll shift a load (permanently or loans) as the deadline nears - just like last year.

Appreciate the ITK - I was actually encouraged that we're leaning towards Gift but have a couple other strikers as alternatives. Sounds good to me but as usual I'm on a freaking island.

 

[mattspur1986]

AC Milan and Chelsea have both expressed significant interest in acquiring Gift Orban. While the terms with the player are agreeable, we're still deliberating on whether to proceed with the deal, given his popularity within the club's hierarchy — a likelihood that's heightened. Additionally, we're actively considering alternatives for the same position, particularly two other players whom we're very enthusiastic about for the forward role; however, it's worth noting that these alternatives might come with higher transfer fees compared to Orban.

Navigating player departures is proving to be a challenge, as there's substantial interest in our players. However, the transfer fees being offered are falling short of the club's expectations, particularly in cases where Daniel Levy is involved, or players themselves are not inclined towards a move.

WLB

Said this the morning in the Orban thread and mostly got pelted! We expect premium prices for our deadwood, but then aren’t willing to spend the cash on players that their clubs are as their stars - it’s the same old story, year in year out with regards to outgoings!

no way we recoup a fraction of the prices for the players that are deemed surplus, but they just won’t accept that at the top table.

 

[ExpatFan]

Said this the morning in the Orban thread and mostly got pelted! We expect premium prices for our deadwood, but then aren’t willing to spend the cash on players that their clubs are as their stars - it’s the same old story, year in year out with regards to outgoings!

no way we recoup a fraction of the prices for the players that are deemed surplus, but they just won’t accept that at the top table.

That's how the Levys of this world do business. It's all about the bottom line of the spreadsheet.

 

[Flobadob]

No matter what price we get for players there is not really any excuse to have in excess of 22 first team registered players when the window shuts. What do the club think is going to happen, those players don’t play a single minute all season, yet hold the value we deem unacceptable? The offers come January for them after warming the stands outside match day squads will be even lower. It really doesn’t take a great deal of common sense does it? Yet this seems to be an ever re-occurring theme. It’s quite ridiculous really and questions should have been asked/long looks in mirror’s should have occurred a long time ago

 

[DenverSpur]

We really need someone( other than Levy) to work exclusively on getting players surplus to requirements off the books. Other clubs don’t seem to have as much of a problem getting rid of players as we do. It can’t just be that we ask too much for them and I don’t believe we pay that high salaries that other clubs are priced out of buying them. It seems to be part of the club’s culture that things are so easy and cushy here that nobody wants to leave to a club where they’d have to actually work hard!

 

[chas vs dave]

I used the same word a few months ago, and was accused of being antisemitic by the usual BSoDL, so watch your back.
By the way, you're absolutely right. Something genetic, I'm told.

Really not the place for it.

Again, it was explained by myself, who is of Jewish origin that the term can be deemed offensive to Jewish people. It was a common theme amongst Nazi Germans.

Yet, somehow its about you being the victim, right?

 

[piedpiper]

Thanks for the info @WLB ...my take on the itk provided is that Levy et al know and understand we have a bloated squad and they are trying to get the best possible deal for the club and balance the need of the squad.

Also in their attempts to clear the unnecessary players, deals suitable to the club are sometimes not in the interests or not of interest to said players... e.g Sanchez to Russia deal.... so I understand you can't be ruthless to the extent where you can't at the stroke of a pen sell off/terminate contracts of players deemed surplus.

On Gift Orban.... there too we negotiating but as itk info states there are other interested parties like Chelsea.... so a very delicate balancing act is at play in trying to get that deal over the line.

 

[Reece_Spurs]

It's sad because we are in a really good situation right now in terms of Ange and the current squad. With Kane going so late and still struggling to trim the squad down like every other season and not seeming to be using the Kane money to any effect is really looking like putting a downer on all the previous positives. Just annoying to feel so positive early doors as a fan and then getting this constant drawbacks that makes you wonder. Frustrating.

 

[Dirty Ewok]

Feels like we haven't adapted to the economic realities when it comes to selling our players.

We have always been cheap and fighting for every last penny. But now outside of the PL and Saudi, teams don't have the cash. Chelsea has outspent the entirety of La Liga and 30% of the money spent in Spain was on Bellingham, the Kane sale is what 15%-20% of the Bundesliga total spend?

Teams don't have the cash, not sure this is the best environment to endlessly haggle if we want a chance on getting some of these guys out of the building so we can make a play at the playes Ange wants.

 

[SandroClegane]

Feels like we haven't adapted to the economic realities when it comes to selling our players.

We have always been cheap and fighting for every last penny. But now outside of the PL and Saudi, teams don't have the cash. Chelsea has outspent the entirety of La Liga and 30% of the money spent in Spain was on Bellingham, the Kane sale is what 15%-20% of the Bundesliga total spend?

Teams don't have the cash, not sure this is the best environment to endlessly haggle if we want a chance on getting some of these guys out of the building so we can make a play at the playes Ange wants.

We're probably seeing some of the prices being thrown around and thinking "why can't we get some of that?" But we don't have the Saudi connections as our rivals, and we've been on a downward trajectory, so our deadwood looks way worse than other competitors. Just bite the bullet, Daniel. PLEASE.

 

[Finchyid]

Was always going to be a struggle getting rid of the players we needed to.

my other guess is this thread will be closed when AC wakes up

 

[DiamondLites]

Who died and made you the milk monitor? The ITK directly relates to the issues being discussed, which is what the ITK discussion thread is here for

 

[worcestersauce]

"Levy is tight"
"Levy should accept any offers"
"Levy should just pay the money"
"Levy should write off the contracts"
"Levy should be ruthless"
"Arsenal are showing the way"
"Other clubs don't behave like this"
"I hate Levy"
Oh and" Levy is tight"
I think that about covers all the posts on the subject so far so unless anyone has a new one we're probably done.
WLB said we are in best place to sign Orban and did not directly link his deal to the shifting of excess players so I'm remaining optimistic.

 

[SDogg]

Cheers for the update WLB.

(Look how easy that was not to rehash an opinion you’ve had for years about the ownership - probably didn’t even need to post anything at all really. Could be food for thought?)

Some people love the sound of their own keyboard

 

[Majick]

The especially frustrating thing about this is that most of the players we expect to be leaving weren't especially expensive signings. Winks and Kane were academy products, so as far as the balance sheet goes that's over 100 million in profit. I would expect that to be used to write off the hits we'll take on others.

For those with a better grasp of the financial side than me, are transfer fees calculated separately from wages for accounting purposes? I know the reports are that we're expecting to release Lloris on a free, but just to use him as an example, we paid £15 million or so for him in 2012 and are currently paying him 100k a week - would the club still need to justify taking a loss on his fee, or would it be accepted that for a 36 year old saving c. 5m on wages when he's not expected to play after 11 years of service is acceptable?

 

[Gbspurs]

The squad is good though. If anything Ange has too many tools to work with. I really don't get the doom loop stuff.

And while I'm sure criticism for Levy being stubborn is accurate quite often, they way people talk we should sign 15 players every window and then sell most of them a year later for a pittance and bring in 15 more. Also sometimes his stubbornness probably pays off - like LoCelso who was a "just give him away" player just a few weeks ago and now he's probably a 30+ million asset again and people wouldn't want us to sell.

I enjoy a new signing but it seems crazy how much emphasis is thrown on new signings just because we can project positivity into them because they haven't worn the shirt yet.

I'm sure we'll get a couple more in. And we'll shift a load (permanently or loans) as the deadline nears - just like last year.

Appreciate the ITK - I was actually encouraged that we're leaning towards Gift but have a couple other strikers as alternatives. Sounds good to me but as usual I'm on a freaking island.

Regarding Lo Celso I agree however the difference now has to be Ange. The club have brought in a project manager and he has assessed his squad. If he has decided that the likes of Ndombele, Dier etc have no future at the club then he has to be backed purely on the assumption we believe he is going to be around for a few years.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

"Levy is tight"
"Levy should accept any offers"
"Levy should just pay the money"
"Levy should write off the contracts"
"Levy should be ruthless"
"Arsenal are showing the way"
"Other clubs don't behave like this"
"I hate Levy"
Oh and" Levy is tight"
I think that about covers all the posts on the subject so far so unless anyone has a new one we're probably done.
WLB said we are in best place to sign Orban and did not directly link his deal to the shifting of excess players so I'm remaining optimistic.

It’s funny how people see things differently I suppose….
I see a few people discussing the ITK which happens to be about Levy not accepting offers for our players and a great number of people slagging off said people for it being ‘off topic’. But each to their own I guess

 

[yido_number1]

1

It’s funny how people see things differently I suppose….
I see a few people discussing the ITK which happens to be about Levy not accepting offers for our players and a great number of people slagging off said people for it being ‘off topic’. But each to their own I guess

I fully agree but we might as well just move over to the Enic thread and carry it on in there now. As Worcester said it's been covered in here now.