The cost of Spurs

[ultimateloner]

TBH i find this kind of moan illogical.
You can't both want your club to play better football/make progress and not pay towards it.
If you can't afford then watch tv, which is what most people do anyways. To then condemn this as greed is irrational.

 

[ClintEastwould]

TBH i find this kind of moan illogical.
You can't both want your club to play better football/make progress and not pay towards it.
If you can't afford then watch tv, which is what most people do anyways. To then condemn this as greed is irrational.

Daniel?

 

[parklane1]

TBH i find this kind of moan illogical.
You can't both want your club to play better football/make progress and not pay towards it.
If you can't afford then watch tv, which is what most people do anyways. To then condemn this as greed is irrational.

Indeed, you pays you money or takes your choice.

 

[goughie1966]

Bring back standing. Get more fans in, lower the ticket prices, improve atmosphere. Win, win, win. I've not been to WHL since seating was compulsory and probably never will. Way too expensive to sit and watch football these days when you can watch online for free

 

[sloth]

The new statistics out today are pretty damning of football in England as a whole, but the prices for spurs specifically make horrible reading.

2nd most expensive season ticket, with the cheapest being £765 and most expensive £1895. Only behind arsenal for worst value for each goal scored with every home goal costing an average of £25.50.

I know it's not fair to compare to other nations but this will certainly be a contributing factor to why the atmospheres are often terrible in the prem as opposed to someone like Dortmund who are charging less than £13 for some tickets whereas our cheapest ticket is £32.

The shame is that this won't ever change. It's a case of supply and demand. The club knows that they can almost hold fans to ransom because we love our club and will always have a blind loyalty so will therefore pay whatever it costs.

Especially with the increase in TV money, it's a real shame to see that greed prevailed instead of using it as a chance to allow fans to be made important again

The German clubs got the state to build their stadia.

You should also look at the average wage in the catchment area from which a club draws its support in order to make a fair comparison of affordability, which is what we're interested in after all. If you did you'd see a very different picture.

The goals per £ spent is just silly, and irrelevant.

In terms of ticket prices, I think they are too high, but it's a question of keeping up with the Jones's when you're a club like us or Arsenal which must survive on the profits it generates and not on the hand-outs of billionaires looking to move their money to safely regulated jurisdictions like we enjoy in the UK. We could charge less, but our team would be worse, and the chances of bridging the gap between us and the richer clubs would be less. We can argue for that, to be a community club and not focus so much on our rivals, but in reality the fans wouldn't stand for it. It reminds me of politics, where everyone says they want more prisons, longer sentences, more schools, more police, more hospitals, more border controls, more doctors, teachers, candle-stick makers, but they want to pay lower taxes... and in the end what do they actually vote for (especially in the South East!)? Lower taxes. And then they blame the government when none of the other shit works properly.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I don't mind paying £32 per ticket or the 8+ hour round trip, but once travel and food are added in, it's well over £100 per match. I can't really afford more than two games per season and dropping the ticket cost by £5-10 wouldn't change that.

If there wasn't such a long waiting list for season tickets, perhaps they wouldn't be as expensive...supply and demand.

It really isn't just Premier League clubs charging high ticket prices. My local League Two club (Exeter City) charges £16 for their cheapest tickets and they aren't exactly the prettiest team to watch. I stopped watching them after the price shot up £5 immediately following relegation to the conference.

 

[Nine while nine]

Did a quick tally of what Spurs cost me last season and it comes out as follows:

My hair (0-3 to West Ham)
My radio (6-0 to Man City)
My love of the Portuguese nation (0-5 to Liverpool)
My television screen (1-5 to Man City)
My lunch (4-0 to Chelsea)
My sense of humour (0-1 to Arsenal)
My gilet collection (4-0 to Liverpool)
My will to live (2-0 to West Ham)

And what did I get in return?

That look on John O'Shea's face when we beat Sunderland 5-1

Not what I'd call a decent return on investment, but, still, it was bloody funny...

 

[guiltyparty]

The German clubs got the state to build their stadia.

You should also look at the average wage in the catchment area from which a club draws its support in order to make a fair comparison of affordability, which is what we're interested in after all. If you did you'd see a very different picture.

The goals per £ spent is just silly, and irrelevant.

In terms of ticket prices, I think they are too high, but it's a question of keeping up with the Jones's when your a club like us or Arsenal which must survive on the profits it generates and not on the hand-outs of billionaires looking to move their money to safely regulated jurisdictions like we enjoy in the UK. We could charge less, but our team would be worse, and the chances of bridging the gap between us and the richer clubs would be less. We can argue for that, to be a community club and not focus so much on our rivals, but in reality the fans wouldn't stand for it. It reminds me of politics, where everyone says they want more prisons, longer sentences, more schools, more police, more hospitals, more border controls, more doctors, teachers, candle-stick makers, but they want to pay lower taxes... and in the end what do they actually vote for (especially in the South East!)? Lower taxes. And then they blame the government when none of the other shit works properly.

Killer post

 

[Shea]

Bring back standing. Get more fans in, lower the ticket prices, improve atmosphere. Win, win, win. I've not been to WHL since seating was compulsory and probably never will. Way too expensive to sit and watch football these days when you can watch online for free

Yea but even in today's enviroment where the in crowd atmosphere is not as good as it once was most of the time there's still something special about watching Spurs play at the Lane that wathcing on tele (and certainly via a dodgey online stream) just cannot replicate

I'm all for people wacthing on tv if they can't make it or can't afford to go to games but I think it's wrong to dismiss the match day environment as you do by suggesting its just as good to watch for free on the internet - maybe for you it is but I can't agree with you on that

I do however think its time clubs were allowed to have standed sections back in stadium again - seems to work just fine in Germany for example and I have no doubt it would be managed by clubs and police to a far greater standard than it was in days gone by when the problems occured that lead to its banning

English football would benefit greatly from increased ticket availability, cheaper (standing priced cheaper I assume) tickets and the better atmosphere this would generate

 

[parklane1]

The German clubs got the state to build their stadia.

You should also look at the average wage in the catchment area from which a club draws its support in order to make a fair comparison of affordability, which is what we're interested in after all. If you did you'd see a very different picture.

The goals per £ spent is just silly, and irrelevant.

In terms of ticket prices, I think they are too high, but it's a question of keeping up with the Jones's when you're a club like us or Arsenal which must survive on the profits it generates and not on the hand-outs of billionaires looking to move their money to safely regulated jurisdictions like we enjoy in the UK. We could charge less, but our team would be worse, and the chances of bridging the gap between us and the richer clubs would be less. We can argue for that, to be a community club and not focus so much on our rivals, but in reality the fans wouldn't stand for it. It reminds me of politics, where everyone says they want more prisons, longer sentences, more schools, more police, more hospitals, more border controls, more doctors, teachers, candle-stick makers, but they want to pay lower taxes... and in the end what do they actually vote for (especially in the South East!)? Lower taxes. And then they blame the government when none of the other shit works properly.

Without a doubt.

 

[waresy]

Couple of mentions about watching games on tv- even costs about £40 a month (if the reason you got sky was for only the football)

Fair play to those that can and do go every week but logistics aside I will always have to just enjoy the few games I can get to- always adding a couple of extra quid on per ticket for the price of the annual membershi

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Clubs have been relying on emotional blackmailing their fans for donkey's years. I said bollocks to THFC five years ago when I decided I wasn't going to pay over £1000 for my season ticket (I'd held it for 32 years) when I can watch the vast majority of the games on my own tele.

Really sad and disgusting how much ticket prices have gone up for the average man on the street

How many more will continue to blindly follow the club they have always loved? Unless you are very wealthy every single supporter must ask themselves each season whether they are going to renew or not, I know I do

And with the ever increasing 100/200/300k per week players wages
The lack of atmosphere
The club & stewarding policies
The crazy PC brigade
The ’non contact' sport
The cheating
Sky Sports
Live Streaming
The invisible spray!
Etc etc etc

Is it any wonder that each year we are losing so many loyal supporters because every year the list for renewing as opposed to not is getting forever shorter

If something isn't done, if a maximum wage and other measures aren't looked at then our beautiful game at the top level will become a distant memory completely hijacked by TV companies and big corporate business with meaningless European leagues that mean nothing to most of us and other bollox to make some more people and companies even richer and US the fans and real supporters will be consigned to the history books

The sad thing is they will probably always find some mugs to fill the seats most of the time by hype and spin but I sadly doubt I'll be one of them for much longer

Next season will be my 40th that I can remember come rain or shine.....

 

[LSUY]

TBH i find this kind of moan illogical.
You can't both want your club to play better football/make progress and not pay towards it.
If you can't afford then watch tv, which is what most people do anyways. To then condemn this as greed is irrational.

Atletico, Schalke, Leverkusen and Napoli all charge a lot less than us and have progressed much more than we have.

Besides, I doubt the money Spurs makes from tickets and pies contributes too much to squad improvement - the TV deals, sponsorship, etc. bring in more money than season ticket sales. Last season we received £55m from the overseas TV rights money share, got £18m in the share of domestic TV rights money and received an additional £17m for having 23 matches shown on British TV. Charging between £750-2000 for a season ticket has got nothing to do with helping the club progress and more to do with the fact that the club know they can get away with it because fans aren't going to boycott their club.

 

[ultimateloner]

Atletico, Schalke, Leverkusen and Napoli all charge a lot less than us and have progressed much more than we have.

Besides, I doubt the money Spurs makes from tickets and pies contributes too much to squad improvement - the TV deals, sponsorship, etc. bring in more money than season ticket sales. Last season we received £55m from the overseas TV rights money share, got £18m in the share of domestic TV rights money and received an additional £17m for having 23 matches shown on British TV. Charging between £750-2000 for a season ticket has got nothing to do with helping the club progress and more to do with the fact that the club know they can get away with it because fans aren't going to boycott their club.

Even if I buy your point that TV etc are bigger sources of revenue. But how is that inconsistent with charging fans higher prices?

I simply don't understand why fans expect football ticket prices to escape the laws of supply and demand.

The uk football industry is simply becoming more professional because it is getting run and owned by people who try to profit. With that comes pluses and minuses. Bonus is the quality of football has increased and a lot of the violence etc in the game got thrown out, as a better educated and higher class(both social and money terms) replace those who can't afford the tickets. Minus is as ever with a changing demographic the ones lowest on the ladder suffer. That's just life.

 

[LSUY]

Even if I buy your point that TV etc are bigger sources of revenue. But how is that inconsistent with charging fans higher prices?

I simply don't understand why fans expect football ticket prices to escape the laws of supply and demand.

The uk football industry is simply becoming more professional because it is getting run and owned by people who try to profit. With that comes pluses and minuses. Bonus is the quality of football has increased and a lot of the violence etc in the game got thrown out, as a better educated and higher class(both social and money terms) replace those who can't afford the tickets. Minus is as ever with a changing demographic the ones lowest on the ladder suffer. That's just life.

If the laws of supply and demand are driving the prices up in the UK to excessive amounts why aren't they in Germany, Italy, France or Spain?

The cheapest Spurs charge for a season ticket is more than the most expensive season ticket at Bayern and Dortmund. Even Leverkusen, who have a smaller ground than us charge a lot less for tickets. How have La Liga and the Bundesliga managed to keep ticket prices low and still produce teams better than those in the Premier League?

Also, replacing those who can't afford the tickets with more educated and higher class (both social and money terms) isn't a bonus - the atmosphere in stadiums are appalling now. Football is supposed to be the people's game, not something for a select few who can afford the tickets, travel, etc. That is something the Germans pride themselves on.

You are right that UK football industry is run by people who try to profit, hence why they ignored the part of the Taylor Report on ticket prices and put prices up 1,000%.

I'm going to post some quotes from Carsten Cramer, the Marketing Director at Dortmund who seems to have the right view on the relationship between a club and their fans:

"Why are tickets cheap? Football is part of people's lives and we want to open the doors for all of society. We need the people, they spend their hearts, their emotions with us. They are the club's most important asset."

"What is the economic sense for the club to increase the price by 10 cents? For the overall economic success of the club it is not important to increase the price of a litre of a beer. It is still money, but not a lot to the club. But it does affect our fans, if they are spending their money match after match."

"We try to be as fair as possible. It is easier to ask sponsors for cash than the fans."

"We are a football club. If the football doesn't run properly, the rest of the business would not work. The business is part of a train, but not the engine."

 

[teok]

Check out what happens in dortmund.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29624410
Borussia Dortmund's slogan "echte liebe" - or "true love" - says it all. The final whistle goes at the majestic Westfalenstadion. Dortmund have lost at home.

And yet none of the players disappear down the tunnel. None of the fans leave the ground. Defiant, determined, the 25,000 fans who religiously flock to the mythical south stand continue to serenade their team.

Manager Jurgen Klopp joins his players on the edge of the penalty area, where they stand for five minutes in awe, gazing up at one of European football's great sights, the "Gelbe Wand" (Yellow Wall), a sea of luminous shirts, scarves and flags. Towers of smoke rise from pockets of fans and waves of noise cascades down the steep terrace and onto the players.

This love is unconditional.

Moments such as this are why Dortmund are one of the last great romantic clubs. The tickets - and beer - are cheap, the atmosphere is raw and seductive and fans, not finance, come first.

When Dortmund reached the 2013 Champions League final, the club received 502,567 applications for 24,042 tickets. The entire city has a population of 580,956. True love, indeed.

Football is all encompassing here, it reaches ever facet of life. One fan even leaves the club shop having just bought a Borussia Dortmund-branded lawn mower. The chance to experience this love affair is attracting more than 1,000 fans from England to every home match.

 

[Coyboy]

Litre of beer!

God bless zee Germans.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Supply and demand.

 

[sloth]

If the laws of supply and demand are driving the prices up in the UK to excessive amounts why aren't they in Germany, Italy, France or Spain?

The cheapest Spurs charge for a season ticket is more than the most expensive season ticket at Bayern and Dortmund. Even Leverkusen, who have a smaller ground than us charge a lot less for tickets. How have La Liga and the Bundesliga managed to keep ticket prices low and still produce teams better than those in the Premier League?

Also, replacing those who can't afford the tickets with more educated and higher class (both social and money terms) isn't a bonus - the atmosphere in stadiums are appalling now. Football is supposed to be the people's game, not something for a select few who can afford the tickets, travel, etc. That is something the Germans pride themselves on.

You are right that UK football industry is run by people who try to profit, hence why they ignored the part of the Taylor Report on ticket prices and put prices up 1,000%.

I'm going to post some quotes from Carsten Cramer, the Marketing Director at Dortmund who seems to have the right view on the relationship between a club and their fans:

Check out what happens in dortmund.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29624410
Borussia Dortmund's slogan "echte liebe" - or "true love" - says it all. The final whistle goes at the majestic Westfalenstadion. Dortmund have lost at home.

And yet none of the players disappear down the tunnel. None of the fans leave the ground. Defiant, determined, the 25,000 fans who religiously flock to the mythical south stand continue to serenade their team.

Manager Jurgen Klopp joins his players on the edge of the penalty area, where they stand for five minutes in awe, gazing up at one of European football's great sights, the "Gelbe Wand" (Yellow Wall), a sea of luminous shirts, scarves and flags. Towers of smoke rise from pockets of fans and waves of noise cascades down the steep terrace and onto the players.

This love is unconditional.

Moments such as this are why Dortmund are one of the last great romantic clubs. The tickets - and beer - are cheap, the atmosphere is raw and seductive and fans, not finance, come first.

When Dortmund reached the 2013 Champions League final, the club received 502,567 applications for 24,042 tickets. The entire city has a population of 580,956. True love, indeed.

Football is all encompassing here, it reaches ever facet of life. One fan even leaves the club shop having just bought a Borussia Dortmund-branded lawn mower. The chance to experience this love affair is attracting more than 1,000 fans from England to every home match.

BvB had their stadium originally built at 54,000 capacity with public funds, then when the World cup was on the horizon they were able to expand without rebuilding the whole thing. Even then though, with the cost a fraction of our project and BVB regulars in the CL and frequent winners of the BL, they basically went bust. On 15th March 2005 the German FA was on the point of removing their playing licence signalling the end of the club. It's creditors, forced to contemplate losing it all, instead were manhandled into agreeing a massive haircut, and BvB were reborn with debt largely written off or restructured on massively favourable terms, and yet with a state-of-the-art 84,000 stadium, including 20,000 standing in their kop end.

Now I dare say if our stadium was already big, could be expanded for under £150m, and we knew the cost of doing so would be largely written off, if we were then allowed 20,000 standing as well, then the range of ticket prices on offer would start at a much lower band and the overall average would also be greatly reduced. As it is we have to find £450m to build a new stadium from scratch and pay back that debt, whilst not being allowed terraces. Now if you can tell me how we can do that whilst also considerably reducing our current ticket prices then I'm all ears.

 

[sloth]

Supply and demand.

It made my blood boil (well simmer tbf) when I heard the government minister talking yesterday, making West Ham paragons of good practice, because they do kids for a quid. First of all Karen Brady is a Tory baroness and no friend of the UK Tax payer, whether it be duping everyone into massively subsidising her private investment with the OS, or refusing to let the owners of the OS rent it to us for a season out of petty spite, thus denying them an additional revenue stream, she's been continuously ripping the country off whilst coming across as holier than thou, so to see her yet again praised by a government minister friend sticks in the throat.

Second of all, the only reason West ham do kids for a quid is because they can't fill their fucking stadium!!! If they could they'd bloody well be charging the full price, and if we couldn't then I dare say our ticket prices would be lower and we'd also have kids for a quid to PL games!