Player Watch Player Watch: Micky van de Ven

[Chirpystheman]

Keep reading that we can't sign both VDV and Tapsoba. People saying how do you keep a young prospect happy. We signed Sanchez in when we had 2 world class CBs. Also romero has missed 27 league games in 2 seasons and Tapsoba can play RCB. We need both

 

[yido_number1]

Keep reading that we can't sign both VDV and Tapsoba. People saying how do you keep a young prospect happy. We signed Sanchez in when we had 2 world class CBs. Also romero has missed 27 league games in 2 seasons and Tapsoba can play RCB. We need both

Finances allowing we definitely need both. Also this year is hopefully an anomaly with out European football. Hopefully next year we'll have a lot more games for them to play.

 

[Teegart]

I expect we’ll hear concrete news tomorrow on whoever, out of the names mentioned, it is that we’ll bring in. With the players flying out Friday, the deal would have to be completed by latest Wednesday night/Thursday morning for them to be on the plane I’d imagine.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Keep reading that we can't sign both VDV and Tapsoba. People saying how do you keep a young prospect happy. We signed Sanchez in when we had 2 world class CBs. Also romero has missed 27 league games in 2 seasons and Tapsoba can play RCB. We need both

We had regular European football then. We don’t have that this season.

The reason VDV has developed to this level is through regular football. If we buy him and Tapsoba, and Tapsoba is first choice VDV could end up playing around less than 12 matches in the whole season. He won’t be happy with that. And it won’t be any good for his development as when he plays cup matches in a cobbled together team of youth players and fringe players he will be lacking rhythm and unable to show his best.

We are going to be playing ONE match per week most weeks. There won’t be any real need to rotate the team. Especially at CB where it is essential that the team is settled and partnerships are formed.

It just makes much more sense to bring in a third choice CB that is willing to sit in the bench as they are at a different stage in their development - such as Tosin or Lenglet. There is no guarantee that Romero will miss a big amount of matches next season. Playing under a new manager with a different focus there might be less chance of injury or suspension. I just don’t seeing it being good for squad dynamics making a hugely talented defender sit in the bench for most of the season on ‘what if’ to cover situations that might never happen.

 

[Johnny J]

We had regular European football then. We don’t have that this season.

The reason VDV has developed to this level is through regular football. If we buy him and Tapsoba, and Tapsoba is first choice VDV could end up playing around less than 12 matches in the whole season. He won’t be happy with that. And it won’t be any good for his development as when he plays cup matches in a cobbled together team of youth players and fringe players he will be lacking rhythm and unable to show his best.

We are going to be playing ONE match per week most weeks. There won’t be any real need to rotate the team. Especially at CB where it is essential that the team is settled and partnerships are formed.

It just makes much more sense to bring in a third choice CB that is willing to sit in the bench as they are at a different stage in their development - such as Tosin or Lenglet. There is no guarantee that Romero will miss a big amount of matches next season. Playing under a new manager with a different focus there might be less chance of injury or suspension. I just don’t seeing it being good for squad dynamics making a hugely talented defender sit in the bench for most of the season on ‘what if’ to cover situations that might never happen.

I take a slightly different view here. Big clubs should always have competition for places and top players will always back themselves to win their place in the team.

I don't think we should sign anyone who's happy to sir on the bench. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having three top CBs competing for starting places.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I take a slightly different view here. Big clubs should always have competition for places and top players will always back themselves to win their place in the team.

I don't think we should sign anyone who's happy to sir on the bench. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having three top CBs competing for starting places.

Yes top clubs who have European football to offer more matches and more opportunities of rotation. Without that I just don’t see any manager wilfully rotating centre backs unless there is some major issue with us conceding goals.

 

[Johnny J]

Yes top clubs who have European football to offer more matches and more opportunities of rotation. Without that I just don’t see any manager wilfully rotating centre backs unless there is some major issue with us conceding goals.

And if one gets injured, we're stuck with a bench warmer. Our defence was relegation level last season. No way do I want Lenglet or Dier or even Davies starting a significant number of PL games this season.

 

[Dazzazzad]

We had regular European football then. We don’t have that this season.

The reason VDV has developed to this level is through regular football. If we buy him and Tapsoba, and Tapsoba is first choice VDV could end up playing around less than 12 matches in the whole season. He won’t be happy with that. And it won’t be any good for his development as when he plays cup matches in a cobbled together team of youth players and fringe players he will be lacking rhythm and unable to show his best.

We are going to be playing ONE match per week most weeks. There won’t be any real need to rotate the team. Especially at CB where it is essential that the team is settled and partnerships are formed.

It just makes much more sense to bring in a third choice CB that is willing to sit in the bench as they are at a different stage in their development - such as Tosin or Lenglet. There is no guarantee that Romero will miss a big amount of matches next season. Playing under a new manager with a different focus there might be less chance of injury or suspension. I just don’t seeing it being good for squad dynamics making a hugely talented defender sit in the bench for most of the season on ‘what if’ to cover situations that might never happen.

Appreciate such a pragmatic view, which is so rare on football forums.

I think we'll have this squad harmony problem all over the place especially with less need (due to less games) to rest first team regulars.

It will be interesting.

 

[Nine while nine]

In summary then:

There's a danger that we buy him and he stagnates, doesn't develop properly and under-performs when called upon.

And there's a danger that we don't buy him and lose a CB with top-class potential and have to rely on a lesser talent if one of our main two CBs get injured.

Some might call this the van de Ven quandary.

As a Spurs fan, though, I prefer to think of it as the Micky hazard.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

you don't sign a player apart from those close to their retirement just considering the upcoming season. same as players don't sign for a club just looking at the upcoming season. you can't have players like Dier/Sanchez/Lenglet etc as 3rd choice if we want to get European football again

 

[TheChosenOne]

In summary then:

There's a danger that we buy him and he stagnates, doesn't develop properly and under-performs when called upon.

And there's a danger that we don't buy him and lose a CB with top-class potential and have to rely on a lesser talent if one of our main two CBs get injured.

Some might call this the van de Ven quandary.

As a Spurs fan, though, I prefer to think of it as the Micky hazard.

Perhaps a diagram would help ?

 

[Cinemattis]

Our transfer strategy shouldn’t be determined or defined by what Arsenal do or don’t do in the transfer market. People need to be a little less obsessed with what they’re doing.

Spot on, mate!

We should be exactly like Arsenal; they don’t care what transfers we do or not!

… …

 

[Ledders Army]

We had regular European football then. We don’t have that this season.

The reason VDV has developed to this level is through regular football. If we buy him and Tapsoba, and Tapsoba is first choice VDV could end up playing around less than 12 matches in the whole season. He won’t be happy with that. And it won’t be any good for his development as when he plays cup matches in a cobbled together team of youth players and fringe players he will be lacking rhythm and unable to show his best.

We are going to be playing ONE match per week most weeks. There won’t be any real need to rotate the team. Especially at CB where it is essential that the team is settled and partnerships are formed.

It just makes much more sense to bring in a third choice CB that is willing to sit in the bench as they are at a different stage in their development - such as Tosin or Lenglet. There is no guarantee that Romero will miss a big amount of matches next season. Playing under a new manager with a different focus there might be less chance of injury or suspension. I just don’t seeing it being good for squad dynamics making a hugely talented defender sit in the bench for most of the season on ‘what if’ to cover situations that might never happen.

We really shouldn't be wasting any money on a third choice centre back to sit on the bench. The aim of the club should be European football every season so this year is a huge blip. We want competition for places & should be buying players who have the self confidence they'll come in & be 1st choice. We need to buy with a plan that Europe every season is the goal so we shouldn't be bringing in players happy to be bench warmers.

 

[C1w8]

We really shouldn't be wasting any money on a third choice centre back to sit on the bench. The aim of the club should be European football every season so this year is a huge blip. We want competition for places & should be buying players who have the self confidence they'll come in & be 1st choice. We need to buy with a plan that Europe every season is the goal so we shouldn't be bringing in players happy to be bench warmers.

Exactly this.

Nobody is joining us expecting multiple years of no european football, even with a new manager.

We shouldn't be shaping the squad for no European football either.

 

[adamsky]

How many times in a season do we get to play our ‘first eleven’? There are some crazy stats around how few times teams actually play what most consider the first team. We need a pool of 16 players that can all play without causing us to groan, and then fill up the rest of the squad with clear second choices.

We desperately need a top alternative in defence, just like we do in every position.

 

[DiVaio]

People saying how do you keep a young prospect happy. We signed Sanchez in when we had 2 world class CBs.

But this isn't similar situation at all. We were playing in Europe. Poch started using 3atb in 16/17 and after signing Sanchez in 17/18 it was supposed to be our main formation when all three were fit. In three seasons when Davinson, Toby and Jan were at Spurs at the same time, they all played ~7k minutes in Premier League. Dier and Foyth also had meaningful minutes as centerbacks.

In comparison in two seasons of Ange at Celtic, CCV and Starfelt played ~5,5k league minutes, then Jenz and Welsh played ~1k minute.

It's really obvious he doesn't rotate that much and doesn't play with 3atb.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

And if one gets injured, we're stuck with a bench warmer. Our defence was relegation level last season. No way do I want Lenglet or Dier or even Davies starting a significant number of PL games this season.

We have a different manager who’s focus is not making the team sit in and defend. Playing on the front foot asks different questions of defenders. It’s hard to say how Dier and Davies will adapt. And Lenglet, has won league titles and cups at Barcelona playing in a front foot, possession based team, he will be fine as backup.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

We really shouldn't be wasting any money on a third choice centre back to sit on the bench. The aim of the club should be European football every season so this year is a huge blip. We want competition for places & should be buying players who have the self confidence they'll come in & be 1st choice. We need to buy with a plan that Europe every season is the goal so we shouldn't be bringing in players happy to be bench warmers.

We will be buying with next season in mind. Good quality experienced 3rd choice (Lenglet/Tosin). Let Dier run down his contract and get a super talented up and coming player to replace him when we make it back into Europe - when we know we can offer the extra matches and maintain squad harmony.

 

[Ledders Army]

We will be buying with next season in mind. Good quality experienced 3rd choice (Lenglet/Tosin). Let Dier run down his contract and get a super talented up and coming player to replace him when we make it back into Europe - when we know we can offer the extra matches and maintain squad harmony.

Lenglet & Tosin seem quite different to me. Feels like we're going for Tosin as he's home grown & lenglet is opportunistic, sign if Barca are desperate. I'd go for either as 4th choice but we need 2 players for now. If we have to go get our top 2 choices then we keep Sanchez as 4th choice. Next season when we're in Europe we buy again & have 4 centre backs to meet the needs of a top 4 club.

 

[Cinemattis]

The cost isn't the issue. VDV is at a very different stage of his career than Saliba was.

Saliba signed at the age of 19, while he was only a squad player for a Ligue 1 team and hadn't been selected for his national team yet - i.e. he was a young, raw, unproven talent. He was starting XI for Arsenal at the age of 21.

VDV is 22, a key player for a team in the Bundesliga, and has 11 caps for Netherlands - i.e. older and more proven that Saliba is currently, let alone compared to 2020 Saliba.

Wrong mate, VdV has 11 caps for the Dutch U21. He was not part of the Dutch youth setup before this. He has no senior caps at all.

Saliba is just short of four weeks older than VdV (born in March and April 2001 respectively). Saliba has 8 full internationals for France, including minutes in last winter’s World Cup. He’s been in the France youth setup since the U16s.

VdV has spent two seasons at Wolfsburg in the Bundesliga. He played five games in the first one (in other words: obviously not a starter ), before he played 38 games in the last season. He was 21 at the start of last season. The same as Saliba when he started his season with Arsenal.

Before his transfer to Germany, VdV was promoted from the youth team to the senior squad at Volendam and spent two seasons in the Dutch second tier.. He played 19 and 26 league games respectively those two seasons (mostly 90 minutes).

A full year earlier than VdV started his senior career, Saliba had already played close to 20 games for Saint-Etienne. While VdV sat on the bench or in the stands for Wolfsburg in the season before last, Saliba played more than 50 games for Marseille, including 13 games in European cup competitions.

VdV has to date less than 90 senior games to his name. A (small) majority of those in the second tier of Dutch football. no senior caps for his country and has never played in European club competitions.

Saliba had played four full seasons in the top tier of France before he became a starter for Arsenal.

To claim that VdV is older and more experienced than Saliba, is factually wrong.

That VdV is more experienced now than what Saliba was in 2020 would be a matter of opinion and could be debated, but I’ll agree with you to some extent there. But as they are more or less exactly the same age, why would you make that comparison? VdV is also more experienced now than what he was at the age of 20.

I get that you compare the date of signing the players. Saliba was obviously seen as a huge talent. To pay that amount of money for such a young player is still a ballsy move, and could’ve backfired. It obviously didn’t, so creds to the scouts down the road for that.

VdV only has one single season in a so called top 5 league. One could argue that it is somewhat of a gamble to pay such an amount of money for such an unproven player. But that is football at this level I guess: sometimes you have to roll the dice.