Player Watch Player Watch - Lucas Moura

[fishhhandaricecake]

One of his best performances last night, best since CL semi for me.
keep it up lucas.
He is loving life under jose and now he has his brazilian mate Vinicius too

 

[Shadydan]

One of his best performances last night, best since CL semi for me.
keep it up lucas.
He is loving life under jose and now he has his brazilian mate Vinicius too

He isn't consistent though which is his problem, he was excellent in the last few matches of last season, MOTM against Arsenal but hasn't kept to the same level this season so far.

 

[midge]

Any idea what happen to Lucas?

He used to start almost every game under Jose. Lucas gives us more going forward on the counter then Bergwijn and he puts a shift in defence too. He is even a threat in the air

I would think a front 3 of Son Kane Lucas would be much better going forward

 

[EQP]

Any idea what happen to Lucas?

He used to start almost every game under Jose. Lucas gives us more going forward on the counter then Bergwijn and he puts a shift in defence too. He is even a threat in the air

I would think a front 3 of Son Kane Lucas would be much better going forward

Biggest issue with Lucas is that he's very inconsistent. His touch can go from sublime and then shocking within the same play. Though Bergwijn isn't as fast as Lucas or able to jump as high, Stevie has better technique and overall game intelligence.

 

[Dillspur]

He might not like it, but I think Lucas is a "super sub", bring him on in the last 20/30 to run at tied defenders, he'd cause havoc

 

[dtxspurs]

Biggest issue with Lucas is that he's very inconsistent. His touch can go from sublime and then shocking within the same play. Though Bergwijn isn't as fast as Lucas or able to jump as high, Stevie has better technique and overall game intelligence.

I have nightmares of him and Dele trying to retain possession while on the field together.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Any idea what happen to Lucas?

He used to start almost every game under Jose. Lucas gives us more going forward on the counter then Bergwijn and he puts a shift in defence too. He is even a threat in the air

I would think a front 3 of Son Kane Lucas would be much better going forward

I agree and no I have no idea. The only theory I can offer, and it isn't a great theory, is that Mourinho wanted to keep him for the EL matches as part of a dependable spine to see us through the group stage. As I said, that seems a bit far-fetched, but I struggle to see that he fell so clearly behind Bergwijn in the pecking order.

 

[dtxspurs]

I agree and no I have no idea. The only theory I can offer, and it isn't a great theory, is that Mourinho wanted to keep him for the EL matches as part of a dependable spine to see us through the group stage. As I said, that seems a bit far-fetched, but I struggle to see that he fell so clearly behind Bergwijn in the pecking order.

He went on a 22 straight game premier league without a goal starting most of those games. Meanwhile hardly being able to pass a ball to our team or being able to trap a ball and retain possession. Bergwijn is finally in good enough shape to match Lucas' defensive output and is clearly better at ball retention, thus he's first choice.

I think Lucas is now on 1 goal in his last 32 premier league appearances. Bergwijn isn't much better at 3 in his last 22, but his ball retention is miles ahead of Lucas.

 

[kaz Hirai]

Really what we need is Lamela to be available again. Thought it was a minor injury but should've known better

 

[Mr Pink]

Really what we need is Lamela to be available again. Thought it was a minor injury but should've known better

Yeah the description we got just before the West Brom game was that we were leaving him out of that one to give a bit extra recovery over the international break.

So we all assumed he'd be back for City.

It's just so frustrating, he would of been a huge asset yesterday and for Wednesday.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

He went on a 22 straight game premier league without a goal starting most of those games. Meanwhile hardly being able to pass a ball to our team or being able to trap a ball and retain possession. Bergwijn is finally in good enough shape to match Lucas' defensive output and is clearly better at ball retention, thus he's first choice.

I think Lucas is now on 1 goal in his last 32 premier league appearances. Bergwijn isn't much better at 3 in his last 22, but his ball retention is miles ahead of Lucas.

Bergwijn hasn't scored in the league this season. At all. He's had 4 shots total over 500 minutes. Lucas has 1 goal and 5 shots over 380 minutes. So, I think for the sake of an objective discourse, we should simply put goals aside. Which I know some find weird for a winger (I don't).
Then we look at your two remaining arguments, ball retention and defensive contribution.
Personally, I far prefer Lucas for defensive reasons. I think he works harder, positions himself better and is more reliable.
However, when it comes to ball retention, that is not giving away the ball for silly reasons and keeping it moving within the team, I will happily concede that Bergwijn is the better choice. But I do feel that as much as Bergwijn is good at keeping the ball moving, Lucas is better at bringing the ball into a dangerous position to challenge the opposition. I find Bergwijn to be far less adept at bring the ball with him into a goal scoring area.
Which brings me full circle - that on balance I don't see why Bergwijn is such a nailed on starter in the PL, and Lucas is not.

 

[dtxspurs]

Bergwijn hasn't scored in the league this season. At all. He's had 4 shots total over 500 minutes. Lucas has 1 goal and 5 shots over 380 minutes. So, I think for the sake of an objective discourse, we should simply put goals aside. Which I know some find weird for a winger (I don't).
Then we look at your two remaining arguments, ball retention and defensive contribution.
Personally, I far prefer Lucas for defensive reasons. I think he works harder, positions himself better and is more reliable.
However, when it comes to ball retention, that is not giving away the ball for silly reasons and keeping it moving within the team, I will happily concede that Bergwijn is the better choice. But I do feel that as much as Bergwijn is good at keeping the ball moving, Lucas is better at bringing the ball into a dangerous position to challenge the opposition. I find Bergwijn to be far less adept at bring the ball with him into a goal scoring area.
Which brings me full circle - that on balance I don't see why Bergwijn is such a nailed on starter in the PL, and Lucas is not.

Nailed on starter could be questioned but for my money I think Bergwijn is a better footballer.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Nailed on starter could be questioned but for my money I think Bergwijn is a better footballer.

Well. I don't. I think the differences in total are marginal and that pronouncing one as superior to the other is difficult, or maybe not even objectively speaking possible. But Bergwijn has just been given 4 matches in a row in the starting line up and I'm not that crazy about what I've seen in total. Why I'd want Lucas to start in the PL is that I feel there is something not quite right in the Kane-Son-Ndombele-Bergwijn balance, and maybe Lucas could bring something different. Ultimately I'm probably a bit biased because I prefer Lucas purely due to playing style, but taking that bias proactively into account, I also don't think that Bergwijn has accomplished enough to want him to start vs. Liverpool.

 

[Mattspurs1982]

Yeah the description we got just before the West Brom game was that we were leaving him out of that one to give a bit extra recovery over the international break.

So we all assumed he'd be back for City.

It's just so frustrating, he would of been a huge asset yesterday and for Wednesday.

This is true, Lamela was immense vs united at OT

 

[Duck]

Biggest issue with Lucas is that he's very inconsistent. His touch can go from sublime and then shocking within the same play. Though Bergwijn isn't as fast as Lucas or able to jump as high, Stevie has better technique and overall game intelligence.

and that sublime technique and "game intelligence" has yielded an impressive total of 0 goals and 0 assists in 8 appearances. He also gets beaten for pace every time a through ball is played for him.

 

[wrd]

and that sublime technique and "game intelligence" has yielded an impressive total of 0 goals and 0 assists in 8 appearances. He also gets beaten for pace every time a through ball is played for him.

I thought he could have done better with his chances against Chelsea and I don't think he had a particularly good game against Palace but to solely on goals and assists (note I said solely) is so disingenuous. He's clearly being asked to do a certain role for the team, he has worked his absolute bollocks off basically doubling up with Aurier for the majority of games.

 

[Duck]

Then we look at your two remaining arguments, ball retention and defensive contribution.
Personally, I far prefer Lucas for defensive reasons. I think he works harder, positions himself better and is more reliable.
However, when it comes to ball retention, that is not giving away the ball for silly reasons and keeping it moving within the team, I will happily concede that Bergwijn is the better choice. But I do feel that as much as Bergwijn is good at keeping the ball moving, Lucas is better at bringing the ball into a dangerous position to challenge the opposition. I find Bergwijn to be far less adept at bring the ball with him into a goal scoring area.
Which brings me full circle - that on balance I don't see why Bergwijn is such a nailed on starter in the PL, and Lucas is not.

Since when is ball retention a high priority in a team that favors counterattack? If ball retention were so vital, we should've been extremely concerned with the amount of possession we let Arsenal have. Even a bottom 3 team like West Brom had long spells of possession against us when we played them.

I still believe Bergwijn is only playing because Mourinho is giving him a run of games to show something. He's shown he's a rubbish player, and nowhere near good enough for a team challenging for Premier League titles.

Lucas can at the very least test opposition defenders for pace, and has had some massive games for us in huge moments. Far more deserving of starting than Bergwijn is, especially with a counterattacking gameplan.

 

[wrd]

Since when is ball retention a high priority in a team that favors counterattack? If ball retention were so vital, we should've been extremely concerned with the amount of possession we let Arsenal have. Even a bottom 3 team like West Brom had long spells of possession against us when we played them.

I still believe Bergwijn is only playing because Mourinho is giving him a run of games to show something. He's shown he's a rubbish player, and nowhere near good enough for a team challenging for Premier League titles.

Lucas can at the very least test opposition defenders for pace, and has had some massive games for us in huge moments. Far more deserving of starting than Bergwijn is, especially with a counterattacking gameplan.

It's amazing that you judge Bergwijn on his goal output in 8 appearances whilst calling for Moura who has 1 goal in 32 league appearances.

 

[Who’s our next manager?]

Bergwijn hasn't scored in the league this season. At all. He's had 4 shots total over 500 minutes. Lucas has 1 goal and 5 shots over 380 minutes. So, I think for the sake of an objective discourse, we should simply put goals aside. Which I know some find weird for a winger (I don't).
Then we look at your two remaining arguments, ball retention and defensive contribution.
Personally, I far prefer Lucas for defensive reasons. I think he works harder, positions himself better and is more reliable.
However, when it comes to ball retention, that is not giving away the ball for silly reasons and keeping it moving within the team, I will happily concede that Bergwijn is the better choice. But I do feel that as much as Bergwijn is good at keeping the ball moving, Lucas is better at bringing the ball into a dangerous position to challenge the opposition. I find Bergwijn to be far less adept at bring the ball with him into a goal scoring area.
Which brings me full circle - that on balance I don't see why Bergwijn is such a nailed on starter in the PL, and Lucas is not.

It’s a case of sell 2 and buy 1.

 

[Duck]

I thought he could have done better with his chances against Chelsea and I don't think he had a particularly good game against Palace but to solely on goals and assists (note I said solely) is so disingenuous. He's clearly being asked to do a certain role for the team, he has worked his absolute bollocks off basically doubling up with Aurier for the majority of games.

In other words, he's being asked to perform the duties of a fullback, in which case we may as well play Doherty. At least Doherty has an assist to his name, and knows how to play a decent ball into the box.
Also, solely on goals and assists? Did you read my next sentence? Bergwijn has no pace. He gets beaten to the ball easily by every opposition fullback. In a gameplan where we're dependent on fast transition counterattack, pace up front can be a very valuable asset, just look at most of Son's goals this year. It's particularly valuable with a player like Kane, who's one of the best final third passers in the world.

With Lucas, at the very least Kane would have another pacey option Kane can reliably send through balls to. Bergwijn never beats anyone.

It's amazing that you judge Bergwijn on his goal output in 8 appearances whilst calling for Moura who has 1 goal in 32 league appearances.

See above.

I'm also a big advocate for Lo Celso at RW. In the 5 minutes he played there in the Europa League, he dribbled past an opponent more times than Bergwijn has all season.