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Player Watch: Erik Lamela

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
Yes, I remember now that you brought a load of stats out to show how Lamela compares to Willian. It did show that Willian scores and creates twice as many goals , season on season. And whilst, minute per minute they are comparable, you could just as easily use those stats to build an argument as to why Lamela doesn’t start very often, because of how wasteful he is.
My gripe with Lamela is his failure to improve. He never reached his potential because of the gap between his ears. He doesn’t learn, and as a result holds us back. He could be one of the top level players you talk of. He gets in the right positions consistently, then fluffs it. Again and again.
Praising them for something else they offer is a bit of a strange one for me. Would we praise a striker who consistently missed chances, yet took a great long throw? I doubt it.
You can see past it, fair enough.
I can’t. And it frustrates me equally when I see Sissoko hide from the ball. I just don’t see us winning things with these flawed players.
But we all have fans favourites. I loved Huddlestone despite his heft and lack of aggression.

To avoid going back and forth, I think we’re in ‘agree to disagree’ territory now. That’s fine
I think the main difference between Willian and Lamela was injury.

I think his lack of improvement is also mainly down to injury. Though he has changed as a player, he is now very much comfortable being this team player who isn't the centre of attention. Lamela was a starter before injuries, people seem to forget this.

It's not about favourites, I don't care for Lamela anymore than any other player. I honestly don't. I just think he is useful to have in a squad 23 players. and I think people overrate players outside of the club and underrate those in it.

Strikers can be useful in a squad for loads of reasons apart from scoring. And this is the annoyance right, and again a recent thing. Shearer won player of the year for southampton in a season he scored 5 goals, because of what he contributed outside of that. The same goes with so many strikers, Del Piero only became prolific as he aged and started focusing on productivity as his legs were beginning to let him down.

It's complete crap to pigeon hole players as needing to be x to play in x position. Mourinho in particular has managed so many teams where he plays attacking players who are not productive but rather function well in the team. Pandev, for example scored 8 goals in 70 games for Inter. But started most games. etc. Plenty of examples there.

Similarly, with Willian, I really rate Willian, because how hard he works for the team, how he is good trapping fullbacks from roaming forward. For his strength on the ball and his ability to hold onto it and bring other players into play. I don't really think his productivity is a fair barometer of how he is as a player.

When comes to players of all positions the question is how the effect the balance of the team. If you have the correct balance you have a winning team. Creating balance sometimes means you need a player who can support the team tactically and effectively who might not score or create much. If you Maicon swinging forward at every available opportunity. then you better have players who can cover for him. You better not play an out and out winger in front of him. If you have Son and Kane, you don't need another player who scores goals, challanges defenders blablabla, what you need is a player which can link everything together and make the attack stick. I don't think Lamela is that player, but making the attack work and function is more important than having a player that contributes great numbers.

If you have two deep lying midfielders, like Milan did in 2010/2011 then you better have a players that can drop deep and help ball progression, like Seedroff and KPB did in that team. If you have strong forward players and fullbacks better going forwards than backwards, like Italy in 2006, you can play Perrotta and Camoranesi, neither of which particularly productive, but they could act as a shield protecting the fullbacks and also would come inside and be competitive, almost like forward playing defensive midfielders. If you have a team full of play making talent, than maybe you want to drop David Silva and play inferior players like Jesus Navas or Pedro who can offer more of a running game and create space for Iniesta, Alonso and Xavi to be more effective. When you have a team with attacking talent like Mbappe, Griezmann and Pogba, you might find playing unfashionable players combative players like Matuidi instead of another attacking winger, and a striker to help the ball stick up top, like Giroud. might create a better balance in maximising the attacking threat of the team.

I could go on.

There is no one way of playing a position, or one best way. Though if fans ran teams, you suspect that they would create some fantasy football rubbish that just wouldn't function in real life. lamela offers a lot of tactical flexibility, so does Sissoko. Sissoko is actually still a starter for the French national team, why? Because he gives balance to a team that can be very uneven.

This is the thing, Lamela can offer balance but also be useful in particular in game circumstances. Should we keep him? Not necessarily. We might sacrifice him for a homegrown player if we need another foreign player slot, that would be of positive benefit to the team. Or if someone like Bale or Dybala actually becomes available. Based on ITK this seems like Mourinho's position too. But, there is no issue keeping him, as he does offer a lot to the team. The team. Not your fantasy football scores.
 

tevezito

In the cup for Tottingham
Jun 8, 2004
963
1,612
Just read the last five or so pages and see the one-footed-ness has been mentioned again, as well as him being fussy/slow on the ball. As well as the many right-footed players are one-footed but don't get this crap argument, I wonder if it's also linked to his lack of consistent playing time and the ability (or lack of) of those playing around him. Is one reason he's so fussy on the ball because his teammates are passing to his right foot, since they are used to passing to right feet, and so he has to move it himself onto his left foot (fussy what name!) rather than be able to take it in his stride or look up for options since he can't trust his left foot to take control of the pass immediately? If he'd played more consistently over the last seven years, maybe his teammates would recognise him and his left-footed-need more quickly, or if they were better they would be able to do so more instinctively? Just a thought...
 

OPModric

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2010
1,104
2,450
Lamela is a nice guy.

That's about it really

He is our second best choice as #10 behind Lo Celso. He is our second best choice behind Lucas on the right. He is a great player to have when we are down and also a great choice when defending a lead.

Why would we trade him now when know how the fixture list look like september-oktober?
 

Johno1470

The worst thing about prison was the dementors
Aug 6, 2018
1,029
4,862
How many players in our squad can change the game like he does? I think he is an important squad player that we shouldn't sell.
I’m interested to find out what games you think stand out that he came on and changed in recent years?
 
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cider spurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2016
9,401
23,735
He is our second best choice as #10 behind Lo Celso. He is our second best choice behind Lucas on the right. He is a great player to have when we are down and also a great choice when defending a lead.

Why would we trade him now when know how the fixture list look like september-oktober?


Because chances are come September-October he'll be injured. :sneaky:
 

Goobers

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
1,979
3,193
I do think the success of the season depends on multiple factors - but one in our control is squad management and recruitment. Slightly concerned that KWP aside ( and maybe Luke Amos) we don’t seem like we are close to selling the players we need to and therefore not getting the cash with which to balance the books. Hmmm
 

al_pacino

woo
Feb 2, 2005
4,576
4,112
Just read the last five or so pages and see the one-footed-ness has been mentioned again, as well as him being fussy/slow on the ball. As well as the many right-footed players are one-footed but don't get this crap argument, I wonder if it's also linked to his lack of consistent playing time and the ability (or lack of) of those playing around him. Is one reason he's so fussy on the ball because his teammates are passing to his right foot, since they are used to passing to right feet, and so he has to move it himself onto his left foot (fussy what name!) rather than be able to take it in his stride or look up for options since he can't trust his left foot to take control of the pass immediately? If he'd played more consistently over the last seven years, maybe his teammates would recognise him and his left-footed-need more quickly, or if they were better they would be able to do so more instinctively? Just a thought...

He's not uniquely one footed but it does seem to be more of a problem for him than some other players. In think it comes down to the sort of crab like way he moves and he struggles to open his body up to pass forwards when he's moving in certain directions. Difficult for me to describe but using someone like Eriksen as an example when he was playing on the right he could comfortably play a ball down the line or if he was cutting in could open his body up and play a forward pass. Lamela in the same position can play the same passes, all good. It's when he's moving any way other than that the problems show up.

No his teammates know what foot he uses he can just have too many touches and the more he takes the worse he gets. He's miles more effective moving the ball quickly and moving to receiving it again, he's good at that but doesn't do it enough.
 

S17PUR

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,313
3,829
He is our second best choice as #10 behind Lo Celso. He is our second best choice behind Lucas on the right. He is a great player to have when we are down and also a great choice when defending a lead.

Why would we trade him now when know how the fixture list look like september-oktober?
We need to sell to buy. Lamela has never quite become the player that we'd hoped he would, he's injury prone and he's 28 so this is our last chance to recoup a reasonable amount of the money we paid for him. The fact that he's our second best option as a #10 is pretty alarming, as he's never been consistently effective there, and it's one of the most important positions on the pitch.

I like him, and think he's a good - not great - player, but I can certainly see why we'd be considering selling him.
 

DaSpurs

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
11,816
13,655
We need to sell to buy. Lamela has never quite become the player that we'd hoped he would, he's injury prone and he's 28 so this is our last chance to recoup a reasonable amount of the money we paid for him. The fact that he's our second best option as a #10 is pretty alarming, as he's never been consistently effective there, and it's one of the most important positions on the pitch.

I like him, and think he's a good - not great - player, but I can certainly see why we'd be considering selling him.

Absolutely perfect summary, and I suspect that this reasoning is exactly how the decision makers at the club are thinking.

Lamela out (and ideally back to Roma) and Eze in sounds like ideal business, with all parties happy.
 

OPModric

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2010
1,104
2,450
We need to sell to buy. Lamela has never quite become the player that we'd hoped he would, he's injury prone and he's 28 so this is our last chance to recoup a reasonable amount of the money we paid for him. The fact that he's our second best option as a #10 is pretty alarming, as he's never been consistently effective there, and it's one of the most important positions on the pitch.

I like him, and think he's a good - not great - player, but I can certainly see why we'd be considering selling him.

I actually agree with most of what you are saying but I question the timing.

We have a thin squad. There is question marks for Ndombele, Skipp maybe going on loan, Gedson not proven very much. On top of that Alli doesn't fit any role because he is such a limited footballer.
 

FibreOpticJesus

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2005
2,815
5,043
Absolutely perfect summary, and I suspect that this reasoning is exactly how the decision makers at the club are thinking.

Lamela out (and ideally back to Roma) and Eze in sounds like ideal business, with all parties happy.
So Eze replacing Lamela makes us a better squad. For real OMG
 

fletch82

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2015
2,652
8,489
No pace, slow on the ball, can't use his right foot.
Time to go

People ask why others are so defensive of erik lamela
Your post is the answer.
I dont think he is amazing
I dont think he replaced our old no 11.
But he most definitely isn't the donkey you see when your watching and if more of our players had his attitude towards the game and the club we might have seen a little success in the last few years
Instead of a team who choke every time something is there for the taking. :(
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
He is our second best choice as #10 behind Lo Celso. He is our second best choice behind Lucas on the right. He is a great player to have when we are down and also a great choice when defending a lead.

Why would we trade him now when know how the fixture list look like september-oktober?

Disagree.

Firstly, if Moura does not start on the right then Bergwijn does, not Lamela.

Secondly, I do not think Lo Celso is a #10 - he can and has played there, but is more of a #8. In the low-block/ counter style Mourinho is building we need an intelligent player maker in the mould of a peak Eriksen/Coutinho/Sneijder to play as our #10.

In the absence of that type of play maker, the #10 needs to score and assist a lot more than Lamela does. I know Dele has been woeful form the last year or so, but he is much better as a #10 than Lamela as he becomes a second striker and brings more goals and assists to the side, even when playing badly.

I think Mourinho has a few problems to solve. His team is looking like this now...

Lloris
newRB Toby/Sanchez Dier Davies
Højbjerg LoCelso
Moura/Bergwijn CAM Son
Kane​

... with Ndombele, Winks, Sissoko, Lamela and Dele all struggling to find a spot in the starting XI.

Ndombele's best position would be alongside Højbjerg as a deep lying playmaker, but I just cannot see Mourinho trusting him when positional discipline off the ball is key to his system, and Lo Celso provides that.

Dele's best position is as a second striker, with intelligent diagonal runs from inside forward positions. He could play as a CAM if he realises he has to move the ball more efficiently and with more precision than he has been in the last 12-18 months. But he brings goals and assists to the team, is great aerially at both ends (which Mourinho loves) and will put a shift in. However, the team did look noticeably more effective implementing Mourinho's system when he was injured. Needs to adapt and find better form.

Winks, I think he deserves a chance to show he can be a better #8 than a #4. I just doubt he has the goals or assists in his locker. Yes, he can glue the play together with neat passing, but I think the comparison with Xavi are a little insulting to the Spaniard, and he needs to do a lot more. If the season started tomorrow I'd expect JM to start Winks alongside Höjberg and Lo Celso, without a natural #10.

Sissoko is the ultimate Mourinho squad player. Follows instructions to the letter, almost like a robot, and is big and powerful. I think he will always be involved in some capacity in the bigger games where Mourinho is ultra cautious.

Lamela is the ultimate sub to see a game out. He comes on, in any position across midfield / attack, and instantly ups the team's energy levels and aggression. He is tactically astute and knows when to foul, when to time waste in the corner, when to harass the ref. A proper Mourinho player. He just lacks fitness, pace and any significant goal output to be considered a starter.
 

Who’s our next manager?

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2020
1,231
1,806
So you want to weaken the squad? A proven international vs an unproven championship player. Maybe in a couple of years Eze might get to be at Lamela’s level.
How proven is Lamela at international Level? 25 caps in 9 years and many of those as a sub. He’s a good squad player,nothing more. Eze has the potential, so,at this stage, would be a better bet.
 
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