Player Watch: Erik Lamela

[dimiSpur]

People still talking about his transfer fee as a negative, it was 5 years ago ffs

What does time have to do with the matter? What we paid, at the time, was a high transfer fee and the transfer fee of a player will always be something that is taken into consideration when evaluating whether the player has been a success or not.

Example: Pogba has some good traits, would I pay £100m+ for him? Fuck no. So for the fee they paid he's been a failure so far. Same goes for Lukaku.

 

[Shadydan]

What does time have to do with the matter? What we paid, at the time, was a high transfer fee and the transfer fee of a player will always be something that is taken into consideration when evaluating whether the player has been a success or not.

Example: Pogba has some good traits, would I pay £100m+ for him? Fuck no. So for the fee they paid he's been a failure so far. Same goes for Lukaku.

I'm just amazed that people are still bringing up how much he cost in this thread that's all...Regardless of time his value is irrelevant, we're talking about his current impact on the team and the merits for keeping or selling him not evaluating whether he's been a success, I don't see how his transfer fee really affects things in that respect.

Pogba isn't the best example either seeing as he went for a world record fee at the time of course the expectations are different...

 

[phaser]

Was rubbish on Saturday. He works hard but largely ineffectively. I have never seen in him what someone must have seen to be happy to spend 30 million or so on him. Time for him to have a fresh start elsewhere.

Baldini was the one happy to advise Levy to spend the money on him and others from GB's sale (Eriksen apart he fouled up). Lamela's on-field inadequacies soon led some of us to the conclusion that Baldini was way off the mark. I guess our Daniel wasn't too impressed with Baldini's choices either.

 

[phaser]

That was my feeling from his first game... Wasn't impressed. He has a cult like following on here though which I've never understood.

Because he get's stuck in and runs around a lot. But it doesn't resonate with them that he's often running around a lot having given the ball away in the first place. Lol.

 

[dimiSpur]

I'm just amazed that people are still bringing up how much he cost in this thread that's all...Regardless of time his value is irrelevant, we're talking about his current impact on the team and the merits for keeping or selling him not evaluating whether he's been a success, I don't see how his transfer fee really affects things in that respect.

Pogba isn't the best example either seeing as he went for a world record fee at the time of course the expectations are different...

You mean the "Erik Lamela Thread"? I would have thought this is the most appropriate place to mention it.

And his fee is a big part of whether or not he's been a success. The fee you pay for a player is indicative of how important you want a signing to be. For example, lets say £26m then is equivalent to a £50m signing now. Well we wouldn't go and spend £50m on a bench player now would we? The amount you pay shows how important you intend that signing to be, hence why his fee is brought up time and again. We intended him to be a vital first XI player and he's turned out to be, at best, someone you'd want as a squad player. So he's been a failure.

Pogba was an example of how the player's price tag is indicative of the importance you expect of a player to your first XI. At the time he was our record signing (or record equalling).

 

[tiger666]

The fee you pay for a player is indicative of how important you want a signing to be. For example, lets say £26m then is equivalent to a £50m signing now. Well we wouldn't go and spend £50m on a bench player now would we? The amount you pay shows how important you intend that signing to be, hence why his fee is brought up time and again. We intended him to be a vital first XI player and he's turned out to be, at best, someone you'd want as a squad player. So he's been a failure.

Lol what?

 

[dimiSpur]

Lol what?

What didn't you understand?

The higher the price you pay for a footballer, the higher the level of importance you expect that player to have in your team. If you pay £50m for a player you'd expect that player to be an important name in your teamsheet, not a jobber.

Now repeat that back to me, I wanna make sure you understand.

 

[Shadydan]

You mean the "Erik Lamela Thread"? I would have thought this is the most appropriate place to mention it.

And his fee is a big part of whether or not he's been a success. The fee you pay for a player is indicative of how important you want a signing to be. For example, lets say £26m then is equivalent to a £50m signing now. Well we wouldn't go and spend £50m on a bench player now would we? The amount you pay shows how important you intend that signing to be, hence why his fee is brought up time and again. We intended him to be a vital first XI player and he's turned out to be, at best, someone you'd want as a squad player. So he's been a failure.

Pogba was an example of how the player's price tag is indicative of the importance you expect of a player to your first XI. At the time he was our record signing (or record equalling).

Yeah great but...

In the context of this current conversation I don't see why bringing up his fee makes any difference to anything, we're talking about his ability and the merits of keeping him in the team - that's what the conversation was about hence my reply, the only person who bought up his fee and whether he has been a success or not is you because you want to have that conversation, not sure why though...

In regards to whether he's been a success or failure, you know you are actually allowed to use context when you're debating things like this, I'd argue Lamela's contribution to the team when he's been fit has been a largely positive one, more often than not he's been a key player and at times vital to the way we play and when he's been Injured we've missed his energy and his offensive and defensive play. So let's not try and make out that because he hasn't hit double figures every season he's an instant flop as you know there's much much more to it than that.

A player's value is such a simplistic and lazy way of judging them, if a player goes to a club on a free transfer and ultimately flops they don't yet a free pass just because the club didn't pay any money for them, there's much more to it than that, it's not the players fault that the club decided to spunk a load of money on players who mostly didn't fit our team, the fact that he is one of two players still left from the splurge says more about him more than anything.

Also you realise that Lamela was a starter in our team before he got injured and he was putting together consistent performances, if he hadn't got injured which again wasn't his fault than who knows how he would have kicked on the following season.

And before anyone says it I'm not part of some Lamela cult or fan club or whatever fanciful title people who struggle to debate properly may want to make up, I just think we need to be a bit more fairer when judging him. I'm actually not against moving him on providing we can get a player who can take us to another level, probably easier said than done though.

 

[Bobbins]

People still talking about his transfer fee as a negative, it was 5 years ago ffs

To be fair people are still talking about him as being "the most one-footed player they've ever seen" despite the goals he's scored with his right.

This thread is just toxic these days, it's the auto-go-to destination for a number of people after we've had a bad result.

 

[Hazelton]

I think the biggest issue he's had since being here is that he's a playmaker who needs runners, but instead has often been asked to be the runner.

He's so clearly not a winger, he's a number 10. Now, you can debate whether he's good or bad at it, but the fact remains that he is a number 10.

It'll never happen, but I think if we ever played him behind Kane and put Son and Lucas either side of him, we'd see what he can really do with two pacey runners in the team. As I said though, we'll never see that. Especially as it means we'd have to drop or move Eriksen and/or Alli to accomodate it, both of whom deserve to play ahead of him.

I like Lamela but I don't see it working for him here, he'll never be anything other than a good squad player for us. For the sake of his own career if nothing else, he needs to go away and become a key player in Serie A or La Liga. If he chooses to stay, great.

 

[daryl hannah]

Looking at last year's team performance, we finished 2nd in the league. Lamela was no where near that team after October. I don't think we'll miss him if he decides to move on.

 

[dimiSpur]

Yeah great but...

In the context of this current conversation I don't see why bringing up his fee makes any difference to anything, we're talking about his ability and the merits of keeping him in the team - that's what the conversation was about hence my reply, the only person who bought up his fee and whether he has been a success or not is you because you want to have that conversation, not sure why though...

In regards to whether he's been a success or failure, you know you are actually allowed to use context when you're debating things like this, I'd argue Lamela's contribution to the team when he's been fit has been a largely positive one, more often than not he's been a key player and at times vital to the way we play and when he's been Injured we've missed his energy and his offensive and defensive play. So let's not try and make out that because he hasn't hit double figures every season he's an instant flop as you know there's much much more to it than that.

A player's value is such a simplistic and lazy way of judging them, if a player goes to a club on a free transfer and ultimately flops they don't yet a free pass just because the club didn't pay any money for them, there's much more to it than that, it's not the players fault that the club decided to spunk a load of money on players who mostly didn't fit our team, the fact that he is one of two players still left from the splurge says more about him more than anything.

Also you realise that Lamela was a starter in our team before he got injured and he was putting together consistent performances, if he hadn't got injured which again wasn't his fault than who knows how he would have kicked on the following season.

And before anyone says it I'm not part of some Lamela cult or fan club or whatever fanciful title people who struggle to debate properly may want to make up, I just think we need to be a bit more fairer when judging him. I'm actually not against moving him on providing we can get a player who can take us to another level, probably easier said than done though.

Why would you assume that I cannot debate the issue properly? Because I have an opposite opinion to you, you instantly think I'm unable to debate? And neither have I issued any names to you or anyone else who argues Lamela's case. So stop making OTT comments to that end and preteding I'm incapable of debating the matter in a civil and well-mannered way because it cries desperation and deflects from the actual essence of the argument, which is whether or not Lamela is/has been a good player for us.

A player's price tag, as I said in my initial post, is one of the ways in which a player is measured. I didn't say it is the only thing by which a player is judged. You say it's a lazy way, but I've given my reasons as to why I think a price tag does have a bearing on a player's status as a success or not. If you disagree with that, then fine, but you are not disagreeing with what I've posted, you're making out it's the only thing I've judged him on, when I haven't. So you're debating and arguing against the points you would have liked me to have made rather than what I've actually said!

In any case, I don't think you can regard Lamela as a success because having watched him for season after season, I fail to see what he offers the team in an attacking sense. Yes he works hard and presses from the front, but that is not what an attacking midfielder's main attributes should be. Otherwise we may as well have anyone there who is willing to close down and give his all. Applying yourself to the match is the minimum that should be required of all players.

In other words, the extreme work rate he gives us should be an added bonus to an already effective player on the ball. And the plain truth is, he just isn't as effective on the ball as I would have liked him to be. He looks like a player that would be better suited to a slower paced league. He wants time on the ball that he seldom has. He dwells to make decisions and in the final third you need to be razor sharp, especially in games where the opposition has two lines of 4 or 5 defenders and that quick pass is the difference between exposing a defensive hole or giving them time to regroup. He doesn't go past people. He doesn't shoot particularly well from outside the area. He doesn't get himself into goalscoring positions (as Dele does) with any frequency and when he does, he mostly fluffs his lines and misses due to a lack of composure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's shit or hopeless. There's the odd day where he actually plays well and affects the game going forward. But it's never very consistent and it's never particularly awe-inspiring. And he's not someone I'd want in my first XI if I had the choice. Does that mean I want him sold? No. Like I said before, I think there's a place for him in a 25-man squad. That being coming on to close games out where we're ahead by the odd goal and starting to retreat defensively.

But then I go back to my initial point of that's not what you expect from a big - money signing. If we signed someone now for a record - equalling transfer fee and he was a "jobber" I would be gravely disappointed.

 

[Shadydan]

To be fair people are still talking about him as being "the most one-footed player they've ever seen" despite the goals he's scored with his right.

This thread is just toxic these days, it's the auto-go-to destination for a number of people after we've had a bad result.

It's tragic really, I get that people have an opinion but the amount of falsities and extremes people go to to make a point gives me a fucking headache, and that's on both sides of the debate whether positive or negative. Bringing up his fee to form an argument is as much of a stretch of saying that he is a difference maker if given a run in the team, there's such an imbalance of OTT opinions in here

 

[Shadydan]

Why would you assume that I cannot debate the issue properly? Because I have an opposite opinion to you, you instantly think I'm unable to debate? And neither have I issued any names to you or anyone else who argues Lamela's case. So stop making OTT comments to that end and preteding I'm incapable of debating the matter in a civil and well-mannered way because it cries desperation and deflects from the actual essence of the argument, which is whether or not Lamela is/has been a good player for us.

A player's price tag, as I said in my initial post, is one of the ways in which a player is measured. I didn't say it is the only thing by which a player is judged. You say it's a lazy way, but I've given my reasons as to why I think a price tag does have a bearing on a player's status as a success or not. If you disagree with that, then fine, but you are not disagreeing with what I've posted, you're making out it's the only thing I've judged him on, when I haven't. So you're debating and arguing against the points you would have liked me to have made rather than what I've actually said!

In any case, I don't think you can regard Lamela as a success because having watched him for season after season, I fail to see what he offers the team in an attacking sense. Yes he works hard and presses from the front, but that is not what an attacking midfielder's main attributes should be. Otherwise we may as well have anyone there who is willing to close down and give his all. Applying yourself to the match is the minimum that should be required of all players.

In other words, the extreme work rate he gives us should be an added bonus to an already effective player on the ball. And the plain truth is, he just isn't as effective on the ball as I would have liked him to be. He looks like a player that would be better suited to a slower paced league. He wants time on the ball that he seldom has. He dwells to make decisions and in the final third you need to be razor sharp, especially in games where the opposition has two lines of 4 or 5 defenders and that quick pass is the difference between exposing a defensive hole or giving them time to regroup. He doesn't go past people. He doesn't shoot particularly well from outside the area. He doesn't get himself into goalscoring positions (as Dele does) with any frequency and when he does, he mostly fluffs his lines and misses due to a lack of composure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's shit or hopeless. There's the odd day where he actually plays well and affects the game going forward. But it's never very consistent and it's never particularly awe-inspiring. And he's not someone I'd want in my first XI if I had the choice. Does that mean I want him sold? No. Like I said before, I think there's a place for him in a 25-man squad. That being coming on to close games out where we're ahead by the odd goal and starting to retreat defensively.

But then I go back to my initial point of that's not what you expect from a big - money signing. If we signed someone now for a record - equalling transfer fee and he was a "jobber" I would be gravely disappointed.

*sigh*

I wasn't addressing you with that paragraph I said people which is why I said "anyone" and "people", I'm merely saying that because that's normally brought out in this debate.

Alright cool, let's agree to disagree on the fee thing, can't be asked to debate anymore anyway lol

 

[dimiSpur]

*sigh*

I wasn't addressing you with that paragraph I said people which is why I said "anyone" and "people", I'm merely saying that because that's normally brought out in this debate.

Alright cool, let's agree to disagree on the fee thing, can't be asked to debate anymore anyway lol

Saying people and anyone whilst directly replying to my post implies you mean me. When and if I bring it out, then you can state what you stated. You can't answer the post you'd like to have replied to.

And oh look, once you disarmour someone's opinion of all the hysterics of the type you alluded to in your post, you actually did what you accused me of doing, not being able to debate.

 

[phaser]

Yeah great but...

In the context of this current conversation I don't see why bringing up his fee makes any difference to anything, we're talking about his ability and the merits of keeping him in the team - that's what the conversation was about hence my reply, the only person who bought up his fee and whether he has been a success or not is you because you want to have that conversation, not sure why though...

In regards to whether he's been a success or failure, you know you are actually allowed to use context when you're debating things like this, I'd argue Lamela's contribution to the team when he's been fit has been a largely positive one, more often than not he's been a key player and at times vital to the way we play and when he's been Injured we've missed his energy and his offensive and defensive play. So let's not try and make out that because he hasn't hit double figures every season he's an instant flop as you know there's much much more to it than that.

A player's value is such a simplistic and lazy way of judging them, if a player goes to a club on a free transfer and ultimately flops they don't yet a free pass just because the club didn't pay any money for them, there's much more to it than that, it's not the players fault that the club decided to spunk a load of money on players who mostly didn't fit our team, the fact that he is one of two players still left from the splurge says more about him more than anything.

Also you realise that Lamela was a starter in our team before he got injured and he was putting together consistent performances, if he hadn't got injured which again wasn't his fault than who knows how he would have kicked on the following season.

And before anyone says it I'm not part of some Lamela cult or fan club or whatever fanciful title people who struggle to debate properly may want to make up, I just think we need to be a bit more fairer when judging him. I'm actually not against moving him on providing we can get a player who can take us to another level, probably easier said than done though.

A key player is total bullshit. “We kicked on the following season without him” following his injury. We finished in our highest ever position of second, established all kinds of playing records and moved up another level without him. Lamela wasn't thought of, wasn't needed and wasn’t missed. He is an insignificant spare part that needs to be sold.

 

[Shadydan]

Saying people and anyone whilst directly replying to my post implies you mean me. When and if I bring it out, then you can state what you stated. You can't answer the post you'd like to have replied to.

And oh look, once you disarmour someone's opinion of all the hysterics of the type you alluded to in your post, you actually did what you accused me of doing, not being able to debate.

Jesus I'm actually squashing the debate and you want to carry it on lol, you just need to accept that I think you're wrong, you need to move on, I have.

 

[Shadydan]

A key player is total bullshit. “We kicked on the following season without him” following his injury. We finished in our highest ever position of second, established all kinds of playing records and moved up another level without him. Lamela was thought of, was needed and wasn’t missed. He is an insignificant spare part that needs to be sold.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../tottenhams-jan-vertonghen-hails-erik-lamela/

No need to take my word for it when it's come from Jan's mouth but hey what do I know...

 

[dimiSpur]

Jesus I'm actually squashing the debate and you want to carry it on lol, you just need to accept that I think you're wrong, you need to move on, I have.

Never!

 

[dimiSpur]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../tottenhams-jan-vertonghen-hails-erik-lamela/

No need to take my word for it when it's come from Jan's mouth but hey what do I know...

This was 2 years ago. And he was hardly going to say "Well we expected more but hey ho, maybe we can get Sissoko in, I hear he's quite the talent".