Our Midfeild

[fozzi44]

It could be argued that Palacios was already Zokora's replacement, but otherwise we haven't replaced Zok and ought to. I think we're weak if Palacios is injured or (more likely) suspended.

Hence the Sissoko links etc. - we've been looking at central mids, although that may just be to allow us to move quickly to replace Jenas if we sell him.

It could be argued that Bostock or KPB could be given a chance in Midfield. Jamie O'Hara has since emerged as a talent since Zokora was signed. It is not alway about throwing more money away to replace players. We should look to develop our existing talent.

 

[WexfordTownSpur]

It could be argued that Bostock or KPB could be given a chance in Midfield. Jamie O'Hara has since emerged as a talent since Zokora was signed. It is not alway about throwing more money away to replace players. We should look to develop our existing talent.

I agree with that about O'Hara, if there is any position on the field where it is natural for him it is as a Holding MF, he doesn't have pace, but he does have good passing range and like Palacios grit and determination - he is wasted as a wide man, so this could be his chance - Oh, and he isn't half bad at LB either - so I say keep O'Hara

 

[thfc14]

KPB is shite, Bostock is far from ready and Jamie O'Hara should be no where near our first team. we need to improve the quality in the centre. when jj or wilson are not fit or suspended we do not have any decent civer. The Hud is too slow and fast teams like arsenal, liverpool and manu etch just play round him.

 

[Stars]

It could be argued that Bostock or KPB could be given a chance in Midfield. Jamie O'Hara has since emerged as a talent since Zokora was signed. It is not alway about throwing more money away to replace players. We should look to develop our existing talent.

I don't think I would agree that O'Hara has emerged as a talent - personally, I'd move him on. Boateng has had opportunities in training to stake his claim but clearly hasn't impressed even enough for a bench place. Yes, there are others like Bostock who we need to expose to first team action, but I hear from a number of people who watch reserve and youth team games and haven't heard anyone suggest that he's ready to be relied upon as injury cover.

We currently have Palacios and Jenas as starters. Behind them: O'Horror, THudd, possibly Bentley or Corluka out of position or Modric coming in from the right, and then the kids. Unless we've written off this season as a transition one, I think it's more likely than not that we look to bring in at least competition for Jenas. And I wouldn't be surprised to see O'Hara move to somewhere like Fulham, where I think he'd be a solid pro.

 

[Bill_Oddie]

KPB is shite, Bostock is far from ready and Jamie O'Hara should be no where near our first team. we need to improve the quality in the centre. when jj or wilson are not fit or suspended we do not have any decent civer. The Hud is too slow and fast teams like arsenal, liverpool and manu etch just play round him.

That was a bad post.

I always like to offer constructive criticism but not sure I can this time. The bit in bold was especially, well, shite.

I don't think I would agree that O'Hara has emerged as a talent - personally, I'd move him on. Boateng has had opportunities in training to stake his claim but clearly hasn't impressed even enough for a bench place. Yes, there are others like Bostock who we need to expose to first team action, but I hear from a number of people who watch reserve and youth team games and haven't heard anyone suggest that he's ready to be relied upon as injury cover.

We currently have Palacios and Jenas as starters. Behind them: O'Horror, THudd, possibly Bentley or Corluka out of position or Modric coming in from the right, and then the kids. Unless we've written off this season as a transition one, I think it's more likely than not that we look to bring in at least competition for Jenas. And I wouldn't be surprised to see O'Hara move to somewhere like Fulham, where I think he'd be a solid pro.

Better version of a similar theme. I just don't know how you can say KPB has had the chance in training. We can't know. He's been ordinary in the games he's played for us but has equally looked very good for Germany youth sides and really tore up several games he played when he was on loan last season. He's also had a few knocks for us. But mainly, he's a young lad just starting out.

Something that's easily forgotten about KPB is that he specifically chose Spurs NOT to be an instant starter but to BECOME a great player. His first interview said he only expected to play parts of maybe 5 games that season, then build up his role. It was a lot of money for a youngster (possibly heavily incentivised, I honestly couldn't say but given other deals we've done, I'd imagine it was) but he had - and indeed has - good pedigree. He is in style exactly what I hear everyone bleating about us needing every day "Good engine, tough tackler, genuine ballwinner, can pick passes, gets into good areas, creates chances, kicks little old ladies up into the air, etc". I hate to use the term 'The German Fabian Delph' but comparing the pair of them in youth football and their respective leagues last season, the comparison is fair and valid.

I don't blame Spurs fans for not realising and appreciating what talents KPB has but to dismiss him on the frighteningly little evidence his time at Tottenham has given us is very unimaginative and pretty depressing.

Now, seeing as we suspect we're not going to be signing any more players this window, can we close the forum?

 

[fozzi44]

KPB is shite, Bostock is far from ready and Jamie O'Hara should be no where near our first team. we need to improve the quality in the centre. when jj or wilson are not fit or suspended we do not have any decent civer. The Hud is too slow and fast teams like arsenal, liverpool and manu etch just play round him.

probably the most ignorant post i have ever read.

 

[fozzi44]

I don't think I would agree that O'Hara has emerged as a talent - personally, I'd move him on. Boateng has had opportunities in training to stake his claim but clearly hasn't impressed even enough for a bench place. Yes, there are others like Bostock who we need to expose to first team action, but I hear from a number of people who watch reserve and youth team games and haven't heard anyone suggest that he's ready to be relied upon as injury cover.

We currently have Palacios and Jenas as starters. Behind them: O'Horror, THudd, possibly Bentley or Corluka out of position or Modric coming in from the right, and then the kids. Unless we've written off this season as a transition one, I think it's more likely than not that we look to bring in at least competition for Jenas. And I wouldn't be surprised to see O'Hara move to somewhere like Fulham, where I think he'd be a solid pro.

if you think we can sign a better midfielder than o'hara prepared to sit on the bench then good luck to you.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Has Boateng been involved in pre-season at all? I agree with the Oddiemeister that we can't possibly judge him having not seen him very much but I imagine Harry and co can judge him a bit better so if he's not been involved much in pre-season it would suggest he won't be involved much at the start of the season either.

I, like Stars, worry that without Palacios we suddenly return to the toothless beast of the Zokora/Jenas era where our midfield would set their stall out and then drink beer and wave as the opposition midfield sauntered through unopposed.

Palacios was the key to our improvement last season. I think we only lost 3 games in the league after he arrived...to Man United, Liverpool and Blackburn (after he got sent off). We really need to have a plan B for when he gets suspended/injured as his role in the team is far too important not to cover.

 

[thfc14]

KPB will not be a sucess at Tottenham. He has neither impressed when he has played for the first team, When out on loan last year or for our reserves. You can tell when players will be sucessful from a young age. Lennon, Ledly, etc these players automatically stand out as if they have something special. KPB does not. He is 22 he is no longer a youngster. naughton has shown more promise as a player for us in a few short appeances then KPB has done in the time he has been at our club.

 

[Danny1]

That was a bad post.

I always like to offer constructive criticism but not sure I can this time. The bit in bold was especially, well, shite.



Better version of a similar theme. I just don't know how you can say KPB has had the chance in training. We can't know. He's been ordinary in the games he's played for us but has equally looked very good for Germany youth sides and really tore up several games he played when he was on loan last season. He's also had a few knocks for us. But mainly, he's a young lad just starting out.

Something that's easily forgotten about KPB is that he specifically chose Spurs NOT to be an instant starter but to BECOME a great player. His first interview said he only expected to play parts of maybe 5 games that season, then build up his role. It was a lot of money for a youngster (possibly heavily incentivised, I honestly couldn't say but given other deals we've done, I'd imagine it was) but he had - and indeed has - good pedigree. He is in style exactly what I hear everyone bleating about us needing every day "Good engine, tough tackler, genuine ballwinner, can pick passes, gets into good areas, creates chances, kicks little old ladies up into the air, etc". I hate to use the term 'The German Fabian Delph' but comparing the pair of them in youth football and their respective leagues last season, the comparison is fair and valid.

I don't blame Spurs fans for not realising and appreciating what talents KPB has but to dismiss him on the frighteningly little evidence his time at Tottenham has given us is very unimaginative and pretty depressing.

Now, seeing as we suspect we're not going to be signing any more players this window, can we close the forum?

Good post. I agree that you can compare KPB to Delph. Delph has been playing his football in the 3rd tier of English Football whereas KPB plyed his trade in the top of the German. At U21 Level KPB has been far more superior to a lot of other players at that age group so Id like to give him time !

As for the ITK, I feel its gonna be a quiet time over the next couple of weeks.

 

[talkshowhost86]

if you think we can sign a better midfielder than o'hara prepared to sit on the bench then good luck to you.

As I keep saying though it's not about being 'prepared to sit on the bench'. I bet Bassong isn't prepared to sit on the bench and we've bought him in. I suspect the same can be said of all 4 of our strikers and they'll probably all be here come September.

The problem for me with our midfield is that JJ and Palacios are streets ahead of the others and as soon as one of them is out we look a different, less...ummm...good prospect. What we need is someone who can push both of them, do the business when needed and try and get his way into the first team.

 

[thfc14]

probably the most ignorant post i have ever read.

and yours the most condescending. there again I suppose your opinion is far better than anyone elses.

 

[fozzi44]

Has Boateng been involved in pre-season at all? I agree with the Oddiemeister that we can't possibly judge him having not seen him very much but I imagine Harry and co can judge him a bit better so if he's not been involved much in pre-season it would suggest he won't be involved much at the start of the season either.

I, like Stars, worry that without Palacios we suddenly return to the toothless beast of the Zokora/Jenas era where our midfield would set their stall out and then drink beer and wave as the opposition midfield sauntered through unopposed.

Palacios was the key to our improvement last season. I think we only lost 3 games in the league after he arrived...to Man United, Liverpool and Blackburn (after he got sent off). We really need to have a plan B for when he gets suspended/injured as his role in the team is far too important not to cover.

As far as I know he is injured. It is a worry but that is what other players are paid to do, they need to step up to the mark. If they cant do that, under this new manager then i will gladly agree that we need to ring the changes.

 

[ever]

You can tell when players will be sucessful from a young age. .

not always, crouch being a prime example, we didnt think he would make it and bumped him off on the cheap, now we have spent 9million getting him back and then theres the other side of the coin, all those players who at a young age looked like world beaters and turned out to be less than impressive once they have matured

personally i'm intrigued as to what redknapp can make off the prince if given the chance

 

[klink]

Has Boateng been involved in pre-season at all? I agree with the Oddiemeister that we can't possibly judge him having not seen him very much but I imagine Harry and co can judge him a bit better so if he's not been involved much in pre-season it would suggest he won't be involved much at the start of the season either.

I, like Stars, worry that without Palacios we suddenly return to the toothless beast of the Zokora/Jenas era where our midfield would set their stall out and then drink beer and wave as the opposition midfield sauntered through unopposed.

Palacios was the key to our improvement last season. I think we only lost 3 games in the league after he arrived...to Man United, Liverpool and Blackburn (after he got sent off). We really need to have a plan B for when he gets suspended/injured as his role in the team is far too important not to cover.

He took a knock in one of the preseason games (Hull I think) and I saw our season flash before my eyes.

 

[fozzi44]

As I keep saying though it's not about being 'prepared to sit on the bench'. I bet Bassong isn't prepared to sit on the bench and we've bought him in. I suspect the same can be said of all 4 of our strikers and they'll probably all be here come September.

The problem for me with our midfield is that JJ and Palacios are streets ahead of the others and as soon as one of them is out we look a different, less...ummm...good prospect. What we need is someone who can push both of them, do the business when needed and try and get his way into the first team.

Bassong is different tho, Ledley will definately offer up the chances for his position. As Will Woodgate.

I wouldnt say they are streets head of the others. Thudds passing in Pre season was the best i have ever seen it - bearing in mind he was having to do a job at CB at times. If ITK is to be beleived he has looked really impressive in training.

We have bled the Hudd into the premiership, We have taken chances with him, the experience we have given him is invaluable. He is at the age now were we would expect to see a notable improvements. I would begrudge if all that developement was for nothing and we were to let him go and some other team benefit from all our hard work.

For me, Hudd is one of the best possible back-ups about. To be honest i would give him his fair share of games starting. I know it is a game of opinions but i really do think there are some serious misconceptions about him on the part of Spurs fans. He is my type of midfielder, a style i appreciate, i know it isnt everyone elses.

Anyway i am not entering into another saga debating the qualities of our midfielders and the Hudd in particular. I have done that to death in numerous other threads. :grin:

 

[Stars]

if you think we can sign a better midfielder than o'hara prepared to sit on the bench then good luck to you.

We're not in the business of having eleven quality players and playing them for 90 minutes in every game of the season. Particularly in the key positions, we need genuine competition for places and quality cover such that an injury or suspension doesn't potentially represent another season down the drain.

I appreciate that you and I may well have different opinions on O'Hara. I think he's a decent pro, someone who works hard with a reasonable amount of skill, someone who could become a productive player in the Danny Murphy mould for a club with a limited budget. If we're willing to absorb his salary and don't need the £4-5m that he would probably bring us if we moved him on, then it does no harm to keep him here.

Would he keep up the talent levels if he had to step in for Jenas or Palacios against Liverpool or Chelsea or the like? I'd say no; I'd suggest that with him in our midfield others would have to have a blinder, or our opponents would have to be on a very off day, for us to have a reasonable chance of three points. Is he going to develop into a more productive player for us for the future? Again, I'd say no.

Palacios and Jenas aside, we have a weak central midfield - significantly weaker than our competitors. One quality cover for the two central midfield positions would have a reasonable chance of getting a fair few games, covering injuries, suspensions and coming on as a sub to change games. And possibly, replacing Jenas or Palacios if the new guy reaches his potential and becomes better than them.

Which is where, ultimately, we want to be.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Bassong is different tho, Ledley will definately offer up the chances for his position. As Will Woodgate.

I wouldnt say they are streets head of the others. Thudds passing in Pre season was the best i have ever seen it - bearing in mind he was having to do a job at CB at times. If ITK is to be beleived he has looked really impressive in training.

We have bled the Hudd into the premiership, We have taken chances with him, the experience we have given him is invaluable. He is at the age now were we would expect to see a notable improvements. I would begrudge if all that developement was for nothing and we were to let him go and some other team benefit from all our hard work.

For me, Hudd is one of the best possible back-ups about. To be honest i would give him his fair share of games starting. I know it is a game of opinions but i really do think there are some serious misconceptions about him on the part of Spurs fans. He is my type of midfielder, a style i appreciate, i know it isnt everyone elses.

Anyway i am not entering into another saga debating the qualities of our midfielders and the Hudd in particular. I have done that to death in numerous other threads. :grin:

I think we should keep Hudd definitely because he offers us something that none of our other midfielders offer.

But the fact is that Hudd isn't suited to play in a fair number of games simply because once he's put under pressure, he tends to fold quite badly.

JJ and Palacios offer us a huge amount of energy in midfield and allow Modric and Lennon to do their bit further forwards. Hudd, for all his talents, doesn't offer energy and if he plays instead of JJ or Palacios then we have to completely change our game plan.

For me that doesn't constitute a back-up...more of an alternative (semantic wankery I know but I stand by it!). I'd be happy for our midfielders to be JJ, Palacios, Hudd +1 who can put in the workload that JJ and Palacios do.

 

[Freddiehotspur]

Palacios and Jenas aside, we have a weak central midfield - significantly weaker than our competitors. One quality cover for the two central midfield positions would have a reasonable chance of getting a fair few games, covering injuries, suspensions and coming on as a sub to change games. And possibly, replacing Jenas or Palacios if the new guy reaches his potential and becomes better than them.

Do we really have that weak a central midfield? Jenas, Palacios, Hudd, Modric, Bentley can all play there. Show me Liverpool's midfield without Gerrard and Mascherano then... Or Chelsea's without Lampard and Essien, or City's without Ireland and Barry, or Everton's without Arteta and Fellaini. I do agree we need one more all action midfielder in the Sneijder mold, however they are not easily available.. Maybe Toulouse or Standard Liege could solve that problem for us.

Otherwise, we are all set. Our first 11 will be very tricky to beat indeed.

 

[THOWIG]

Similar discussion in the 'What Now' thread.

I reiterate that we must have another option/back up/support what ever you want to call it for Palacios. Take him out of our midfield and we are in trouble.