Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[fishhhandaricecake]

What is your definition of top level manager? is Ange one? Is Conte?

Yep both are but Conte was never a good fit for us and wasn’t committing to us longer term, Ange is a good fit and is on a 4 year project contract so let’s keep going with it and it’ll likely pay off as it did for Liverpool with Klopp for example (his first 3 seasons of finishes were : 8th,4th,4th…)

Ange needs 5-6 new players in summer and we will look a much more consistent team next season.

But regardless of this Wolves are a good side under O’Neill, they beat Chelsea 2-4 away, the same Chelsea side which just drew away to City. This same Wolves team also beat Man.City earlier this season so for all of this analysis it could also just be that they’re a good side, they played well and tactically did a job on us, we were below par, we lost so move on.

 

[Spud82]

For me, I think the main difference between the start of the season and say the last 5 games is that the fullbacks are inverting too quickly. They need to be part of the build up play at the back and time their inversions, otherwise they just clutter the midfield, block off our passing lanes to Madders, Kulu etc and push the opposition into an organised low block.

Feels like we need to get back to basics, hopefully Ange and the staff can work on this. Right now it's all too open and predictable and teams will love playing against us.

 

[mattspur1]

Disagree. That's because the players we spent big on weren't actual top quality.

Anyone who had watched VVD play knew he was one of the world's best. He was available and Liverpool spent the required funds to get him.

Over the last 2 seasons our net spend has been over £100m per season. That has involved us buying numerous first team players. If we get 2 wing backs then we aren't going to need to buy 5 or 6 first team squad players in a window.

In the last 2 seasons if a £80m player became available it was hard to justify it as we needed so many other positions filled.

Our financial situation is different now and many teams abroad are not in the financial position to turn down big money. So yes, I maintain if the right player becomes available for £80m then within the next couple of windows we might be able to justify a move, whereas we haven't before.

As much as I would love it, I can't see DL spending that kind of money on a player.

 

[dontcallme]

As much as I would love it, I can't see DL spending that kind of money on a player.

We've already spent £60m on Richarlison. As our position strengthens and we need less players, it's hardly out of the realms of possibility that we'd go a bit higher.

 

[mattspur1]

We've already spent £60m on Richarlison. As our position strengthens and we need less players, it's hardly out of the realms of possibility that we'd go a bit higher.

Which I feel is about DL's ceiling.

 

[dontcallme]

Which I feel is about DL's ceiling.

I've no doubt a few years ago you'd have said we'd never spend £60m on a player.

 

[mattspur1]

I've no doubt a few years ago you'd have said we'd never spend £60m on a player.

True. I just think clubs are starting to worry about FFP, potentially limiting transfer funds.

 

[Styopa]

True. I just think clubs are starting to worry about FFP, potentially limiting transfer funds.

True, but most of our top six compatriots - Man C, Liverpool, Arsenal and Man U- and Chelsea, have already broken the £100m per single player transfer fee, or come close to it.

 

[dontcallme]

True. I just think clubs are starting to worry about FFP, potentially limiting transfer funds.

This is the part that could help us though.

Our position for FFP is currently very strong. A high enough offer for a top player could entice clubs to sell if they're struggling to meet FFP.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

The trouble with looking at the market for £80m-£100m players is that if the likes of Madrid and City aren’t interested there’s usually a reason. If they are interested then good luck signing them. We all wondered five years ago why we were allowed a free run at Ndombele…

 

[dontcallme]

The trouble with looking at the market for £80m-£100m players is that if the likes of Madrid and City aren’t interested there’s usually a reason. If they are interested then good luck signing them. We all wondered five years ago why we were allowed a free run at Ndombele…

That's true. I'm not saying we should be aiming to spend that on a player. but if the right player becomes available and the price is that high, at some point soon we might be able to justify such a price.

 

[Styopa]

The trouble with looking at the market for £80m-£100m players is that if the likes of Madrid and City aren’t interested there’s usually a reason. If they are interested then good luck signing them. We all wondered five years ago why we were allowed a free run at Ndombele…

Obviously Ndombele was a disaster, but also we bought him at the wrong time, when things were starting to fall apart. Maybe Ndombele would always have been a disaster but I think there’s a difference between buying a player like that from a position of strength and buying a player like that when you need to rebuild the whole squad.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

That's true. I'm not saying we should be aiming to spend that on a player. but if the right player becomes available and the price is that high, at some point soon we might be able to justify such a price.

Yes agreed - Arsenal signing Rice for £100m is probably the closest example of a similar situation.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

Obviously Ndombele was a disaster, but also we bought him at the wrong time, when things were starting to fall apart. Maybe Ndombele would always have been a disaster but I think there’s a difference between buying a player like that from a position of strength and buying a player like that when you need to rebuild the whole squad.

It felt like a position of relative strength at the time. We’d reached the CL final and finished top 4 in the season before. The prevailing view was that CM needed a rebuild but the rest of the team was very good.

 

[Styopa]

It felt like a position of relative strength at the time. We’d reached the CL final and finished top 4 in the season before. The prevailing view was that CM needed a rebuild but the rest of the team was very good.

Yeah it felt like it but it really wasn’t. Looking back, most of the core of the team- i.e Vertongen, Alderweireld, Dele and Rose were on their last legs. Eriksen had pretty much also checked out. Lloris was probably starting his downward trajectory too.

I think it’s very different now, because the squad is at different stage than it was then. I think we’re probably closer to 15/16 Tottenham now than 19/20 Tottenham.

 

[aliyid]

We've already spent £60m on Richarlison. As our position strengthens and we need less players, it's hardly out of the realms of possibility that we'd go a bit higher.

I agree on this being the preferable approach but we've never made 'big' big money signings and have only ever made two over £50m (Ndombele & Richarlison) I don't think you can call either of them a compelling argument for Levy to think that a big money signing would be a guaranteed performer.

As a club we're in a tricky position as (being realistic for a moment):

• Big money signings (£80m+) don't want to come to us as we don't have 'recent' success, we're not a big glamour club and we don't offer crazy wages.
• We're an attractive proposition for players in the £40-£60m bracket looking to launch their career or looking to test themselves in the premiership
• The £60-£80m bracket is where we may find success if we can convince them to join us rather than be a squad player at City / Madrid / Bayern
  • Players in this bracket: Neto, Raphinia, Vlahovic, Watkins (though think he'll be priced out of a move)

On the Ange side, I think he's comfortably done enough in his first 6 months to justify a bigger transfer pot and the timing could be perfect for us to make a push with Klopp leaving & City's issues coming to a head next season. It could be our best chance for years if everything falls into place now that the stadium revenue is kicking in and giving us a competitive advantage alongside FFP but are we brave enough to roll the dice?

 

[Styopa]

I agree on this being the preferable approach but we've never made 'big' big money signings and have only ever made two over £50m (Ndombele & Richarlison) I don't think you can call either of them a compelling argument for Levy to think that a big money signing would be a guaranteed performer.

We also bought Romero for close to £50m I think. And Johnson this summer. The Romero fee in particular seems to go under the radar. Maybe because he’s been a relative success people aren’t so hung up on his fee.

 

[dontcallme]

I agree on this being the preferable approach but we've never made 'big' big money signings and have only ever made two over £50m (Ndombele & Richarlison) I don't think you can call either of them a compelling argument for Levy to think that a big money signing would be a guaranteed performer.

As a club we're in a tricky position as (being realistic for a moment):

• Big money signings (£80m+) don't want to come to us as we don't have 'recent' success, we're not a big glamour club and we don't offer crazy wages.
• We're an attractive proposition for players in the £40-£60m bracket looking to launch their career or looking to test themselves in the premiership
• The £60-£80m bracket is where we may find success if we can convince them to join us rather than be a squad player at City / Madrid / Bayern
  • Players in this bracket: Neto, Raphinia, Vlahovic, Watkins (though think he'll be priced out of a move)

On the Ange side, I think he's comfortably done enough in his first 6 months to justify a bigger transfer pot and the timing could be perfect for us to make a push with Klopp leaving & City's issues coming to a head next season. It could be our best chance for years if everything falls into place now that the stadium revenue is kicking in and giving us a competitive advantage alongside FFP but are we brave enough to roll the dice?

For me, you have to take it on a case by case basis and make sure you have scouted thoroughly.

I remember West Ham wanting to show themselves as a big club by buying a £20m striker. They announced this to the world and ended up with Ayew. We went with Poch's choice by spending big on Ndombele.

So I completely agree that you can't just spend big and think you're getting quality.

The point I have been making is that once we buy two wing backs as cover/competition for Porro and Udogie then we have 2 good to very players in each position. This allows us to spend bigger should the right player become available.

Liverpool have been trying to buy the next VVD and City haven't replaced Kompany. Even the biggest clubs with the biggest budgets can't just buy what they need when they want it.

Pretty much every post disagreeing with me that the next step is to buy a more expensive player should he become available is actually agreeing with me.

 

[aliyid]

We also bought Romero for close to £50m I think. And Johnson this summer. The Romero fee in particular seems to go under the radar. Maybe because he’s been a relative success people aren’t so hung up on his fee.

Yeah Romero came in at £42m (LINKY) not sure what it could be with any potential add-ons (hopefully we knocked £2m off for every potential red card tackle )

No doubt Levy will look at last summer where we bought "the cheaper option" in Mickey VdV and he's been a success. It would just be nice as a club / fanbase for us to make a big statement signing.

 

[newbie]

I agree on this being the preferable approach but we've never made 'big' big money signings and have only ever made two over £50m (Ndombele & Richarlison) I don't think you can call either of them a compelling argument for Levy to think that a big money signing would be a guaranteed performer.

As a club we're in a tricky position as (being realistic for a moment):

• Big money signings (£80m+) don't want to come to us as we don't have 'recent' success, we're not a big glamour club and we don't offer crazy wages.
• We're an attractive proposition for players in the £40-£60m bracket looking to launch their career or looking to test themselves in the premiership
• The £60-£80m bracket is where we may find success if we can convince them to join us rather than be a squad player at City / Madrid / Bayern
  • Players in this bracket: Neto, Raphinia, Vlahovic, Watkins (though think he'll be priced out of a move)

On the Ange side, I think he's comfortably done enough in his first 6 months to justify a bigger transfer pot and the timing could be perfect for us to make a push with Klopp leaving & City's issues coming to a head next season. It could be our best chance for years if everything falls into place now that the stadium revenue is kicking in and giving us a competitive advantage alongside FFP but are we brave enough to roll the dice?

i think we need to bring in good younger players, and plan for success in a few years rather than buy instant success we should be thinking 2-3 years time, and have succession plans if a player goes.

This is where Brighton and Brentford have been very good, we have done a great job over the years with finding talent and young talent where we have struggled is replacing them.

50 million for Walker was wasted
80 million for bale was waste
carrick we wasted the money.

we need to be a step a head and have the understudy ready to take over and the next player coming though after.

easier said then done but looking kane this summer was a big loss but we had already planned for it, so it was not so bad.

we need 2 good young full backs to understudy Porro and Udogie.

it looks like we are starting to take this approach buying for now and the future, we wont over pay, we have got a price and if it goes over we move on to our next target.