Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Sp3akerboxxx]

We don't. But when has that ever mattered on a football forum? Ange might make some odd decisions with his lineups, but he's no idiot. The jump from under 21 football to the PL is huge, and they are clearly not yet ready to start.

"Clearly" is doing a lot of work.

 

[Nebby]

I disagree. Like @Hotspur_Hero said.. Pedro would have skinned Dier alive

I counted at least 4 times where Brighton played the ball through to him and Royal was fast enough to recover and contain n prevent him from running at goal.

If it was Dier, I think Pedro would have had many more chances to bury us

Maybe you're right. But (a) the criticism Dier gets is pathetic and (b) I don't think he would have let himself be dragged out of position like Emerson was. Not entirely his fault, as it was an unfamiliar role for him. But that inexperience showed last night and it cost us.

 

[rossdapep]

I completely trust Ange’s judgement in who he starts with given injuries and suspensions.

Also believe that him stating the players are tired when most are second string, hardly played any games and we’ve not had cup games is merely him taking the flack in front of the media. I’m sure that’s him just protecting players he can see won’t be part of the medium term but needs them now.

This is the start of the journey not the end.

But you have to take into account how relentless Ange's system is.

He wants players at it for as long as they are on the pitch.

At Celtic, Ange regularly switched his midfielders and attackers around the 60-75 minute mark. He rotated too.

He cannot do that at the moment and some players are playing most of the minutes at high intensity (Son, Sarr, Johnson, Deki).

Son for example was taking heavy touches and going to ground easy, a sign his legs were heavy.

Deki was all over the pitch but couldn't add that extra zing to his game, probably because he was tired.

He had a similar performance against West Ham, sandwiched between some excellent performances.

Gil doesn't look a fit and when he did start we suffered so Ange is probably using him despite not really wanting too.

Earlier in the season we had Solomon and could rotate.

It just helps to give players a little breather over a more congested schedule.

We dont have that option.

Also, Hojbjerg is having to do a lot more in this system, so 2 consecutive games and he really struggles.

Porro must be a little tired too as he has played every minute, cant even rest him as his back up is playing elsewhere.

Squad is at its limit and Ange's system demands a lot.

 

[rossdapep]

Maybe you're right. But (a) the criticism Dier gets is pathetic and (b) I don't think he would have let himself be dragged out of position like Emerson was. Not entirely his fault, as it was an unfamiliar role for him. But that inexperience showed last night and it cost us.

Really? Dier always gets dragged out of position and struggles with players running at him

 

[Nebby]

"Clearly" is doing a lot of work.

If these boys were good enough they would start. They're simply not ready.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

If these boys were good enough they would start. They're simply not ready.

There is absolutely no guarantee that "if they're good enough they'll start"

 

[ukdy]

He picked the back four of full backs there’s 3 centre half’s on the bench

Dier is the worst possible example of a CB our team has ever had, and even more so now. The other 2. Young and inexperienced players with no real PL match time to speak of.

So all in, Davies and Royal have fitness, familiarity and will run their socks off. Even though not 100% suited to the task, it’s the best we can ask for at the mo.

Add those *3 centre halves together and you’ve maybe got 1 complete player.

 

[mil1lion]

And in the interim we've dropped 15 points from 15 in matches where neither VdV nor Romero have been available.

Failing to shift Hugo didn't prevent us from bringing in Vicario, and failing to shift Dier/Sanchez likewise should not have prevented us from bringing in a CB. It would have been one thing if they'd both been tied down on long-term contracts, but that wasn't the case. We're one of the very richest clubs in world football, we can afford to pay the wages of an extra player or two in the squad.

We took a massive gamble in order to save a bit of money, and it's not even clear whether it will save us any money in the end. As I said in my initial post, if you were the chairman of Genoa or Nice would you not be holding out for an extortionate fee for Dragusin/Todibo now? We've got no bargaining leverage whatsoever. If finances are not an adequate excuse for failing to do the necessary business this January, they also should not have been an adequate excuse in the summer.

Dier and Lloris were both registered though. Levy is not going to pay wages to a player not registered in the squad and we had to make space for another signing. We couldn't sign another before deadline because we couldn't shift one of ours in time first. I'm not making any excuses as we should 100% have signed another centre back. We had to shift some players who were not part of our plans though so when the offer came for Sanchez and to take Ndombele for a season it made sense. There's nothing to suggest we would have done better with Sanchez so no point speculating on that. In other words yes we needed to sign a centre back but we also needed to sell Sanchez.

 

[Tonio]

Richardson was so fucking frustrating, we instantly looked more of a threat when he went off. Our squad needs so much fucking work.

I’d start Veliz the next few games

 

[Liamyid28]

If only Ange had the chance to watch them in training every single day he might make a different decision

 

[dvdhopeful]

There is absolutely no guarantee that "if they're good enough they'll start"

That makes no sense.

Are we suggesting that the young lads are outperforming the 'first team' in training but aren't getting a chance simply because they are young?

That makes no sense.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Some of you go so overboard. The way we set up we were always due a slapping at some point. When you factor in major injuries and suspensions to key positions and general fatigue of the players, playing against a opposition who press and attack aggressively, it's not a huge surprise we lost.

This was always going to be a season that is a bit of a 'free hit' in terms of Ange building the squad and imparting his philosophy. We have already seen the level we're capable of with a fully fit squad so I really don't see the need for micro-analysis of this loss. There will be more losses of the same nature for the remainder of the season. We just got to trust the process.

 

[PaulM]

There is absolutely no guarantee that "if they're good enough they'll start"

There isn't but you have to trust the opinion of a Premier League manager with 25 years coaching experience who sees them every day over a bunch of people on the internet who have barely seen these lads play.

Sometimes you get beaten for a lot of the reasons @rossdapep outlined. Some combination of options sitting on the bench aren't always going to change the result.

​

 

[Tucker]

Some of you go so overboard. The way we set up we were always due a slapping at some point. When you factor in major injuries and suspensions to key positions and general fatigue of the players, playing against a opposition who press and attack aggressively, it's not a huge surprise we lost.

This was always going to be a season that is a bit of a 'free hit' in terms of Ange building the squad and imparting his philosophy. We have already seen the level we're capable of with a fully fit squad so I really don't see the need for micro-analysis of this loss. There will be more losses of the same nature for the remainder of the season. We just got to trust the process.

People seem completely incapable of considering the context when looking at bad performances. Everyone seems desperate to blame individual players or coaching decisions for a poor performance.

Last night was as much about fatigue and injures as anything else. Brighton have injuries too, but nothing like ours, and they’d had over a week off, we’d had three days.

Like you say, this season is going to have a lot of up and downs and people just need to accept that and trust Ange.

 

[rossdapep]

Exactly. When people complain about this kind of thing, it's pretty much always misunderstood and poo-poo'd as not liking to see any criticism. Often times It's not that at all, it's the spiteful nature of the criticism. It puts people's backs up and there's no need for it. Especially when time and time again, it's the same people

Its this and I was told it was fair criticism.

It isnt because its always the same ones who are quick to get to the negative yet hardly say anything positive.

I believe some spurs fans are not comfortable unless there is something to complain about, maybe it's a way of letting off steam but I find it so counter productive and the majority of it just isnt fair critisicsm either.

 

[PaulM]

People seem completely incapable of considering the context when looking at bad performances. Everyone seems desperate to blame individual players or coaching decisions for a poor performance.

Last night was as much about fatigue and injures as anything else. Brighton have injuries too, but nothing like ours, and they’d had over a week off, we’d had three days.

Like you say, this season is going to have a lot of up and downs and people just need to accept that and trust Ange.

I'm pro Ange overall but do have reservations about his style. I wouldn't go too hard on last night for all the reasons people have outlined. It was going to happen at some stage and I take a bit of comfort from the fact that the lads kept going when I feared it'd be 5 or 6.

That said, there are some things in the set-up that I think will hurt us even when everyone is back. The way Son and Deki watched their lad in space, take a touch, set himself and rifle it in for the first was a dereliction of defensive duty. Is that laziness or are they being coached to sit in those areas and just wait for the break?

The amount of times we were undone by simple long balls over the top was also a worry. I know VdV gets us out of jail on a lot of those if he plays but it's a very risky strategy especially when he doesn't play.

So last night was what it was. I'm not too upset by it. But it does re-enforce in my mind that Ange will be a good and entertaining manager for us but I don't see him bringing us any further than the likes of BMJ and Harry.

 

[Styopa]

Its this and I was told it was fair criticism.

It isnt because its always the same ones who are quick to get to the negative yet hardly say anything positive.

I believe some spurs fans are not comfortable unless there is something to complain about, maybe it's a way of letting off steam but I find it so counter productive and the majority of it just isnt fair critisicsm either.

I think ever since we appointed Mourinho there has been this tension between those fans who think we need a conservative coach who has experience of winning major trophies and those who are more concerned with us getting back to playing exciting football and a new project. So a lot of fans are still deeply sceptical about the Ange project and probably will be unless and until he wins something.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

I think ever since we appointed Mourinho there has been this tension between those fans who think we need a conservative coach who has experience of winning major trophies and those who are more concerned with us getting back to playing exciting football and a new project. So a lot of fans are still deeply sceptical about the Ange project and probably will be unless and until he wins something.

Jose, Nuno and Conte won nothing playing mostly awful football. Fans worried about whether Ange will win something, this is a club problem more than a manager problem. We ain’t winning anything unless the club sorts itself out and is able to finally build a decent squad, not just a decent first 11. If then and only then we finally for the first time get a top draw suitable squad and Ange can’t step up to the plate maybe we move on.

However the current choice is between winning nothing with good football and winning nothing with terrible football. I choose good football.

 

[only1waddle]

I think ever since we appointed Mourinho there has been this tension between those fans who think we need a conservative coach who has experience of winning major trophies and those who are more concerned with us getting back to playing exciting football and a new project. So a lot of fans are still deeply sceptical about the Ange project and probably will be unless and until he wins something.

There's also the media narratives of hero to zero in a day, clickbait that stops fans from applying thought to the process, or understanding any nuance about the situation, make it kneejerk, get people angry, I want it now.

 

[PLTuck]

Everyone going on about Emerson and Davies when it was Porro who didn't close down Pedro for their first, kulu being a fuckwit for the 2nd, the 3rd was a worldie and GLC being a fuckwit for the 4th.