Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Yid-ol]

At the start of the season I said this first season is a write off, doesn't matter where we finish as long as the football improves and the club is going in the right direction.

3 MOTM awards in a row (won't be a 4th) and I almost got pissed off with the last 2 results, but reminded myself this is still a working progress. The first 11 is almost there, but the squad depth isn't for Ange and what he needs, still needs January and summer window again to hopefully get all that sorted!

If we had said at the start of the season we would be where we are and only lost 2 and drawn 2, I would have been happy! Hopefully the injured guys gets back sooner than expected in January and the suspended players make a difference when back. Dispute the last 2 results (did say after Chelsea the injuries and suspension were worse than the result) we are still better off than when we had Jose or conte in charge.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Postecoglou getting grief 24 hours after picking up his third MOTM award out of 3 does make me chuckle. Spurs fans need to be better than this. We win together, we lose together. Chin up lads and ladies.

I didn’t go into the match thread for this reason, he shouldn’t be getting any ‘grief’ however questions around if starting Phillips over Dier or Davies would’ve been better today and same Q for Lo Celso over PEG are imo valid but we will never know and ultimately Ange knows better than all of us and he will have 95% of the fans long term support.

We need another 3-4 signings to improve our weak squad areas, until then when injuries to big players at LB, CB, CM and AM/ST strike we will suffer with worse performances and results and there is nothing Ange or any Manager can do about that as we know the likes of Dier, Davies etc are just not up to it.

So either we risk some youth players or we suck it up until Romero is back and until we can address some of it in the January transfer window.

 

[Misfit]

At the start of the season I said this first season is a write off, doesn't matter where we finish as long as the football improves and the club is going in the right direction.

3 MOTM awards in a row (won't be a 4th) and I almost got pissed off with the last 2 results, but reminded myself this is still a working progress. The first 11 is almost there, but the squad depth isn't for Ange and what he needs, still needs January and summer window again to hopefully get all that sorted!

If we had said at the start of the season we would be where we are and only lost 2 and drawn 2, I would have been happy! Hopefully the injured guys gets back sooner than expected in January and the suspended players make a difference when back. Dispute the last 2 results (did say after Chelsea the injuries and suspension were worse than the result) we are still better off than when we had Jose or conte in charge.

Romero back for West Ham will help out a lot IMO. Still far from perfect but much better in terms of playing from the back at least.

But yes, I had expected us to have the teething problems for these first two months and then for us to get stronger. We've had a great start and given ourselves a little cushion to get through what looks to be a challenging few weeks that have arrived later than expected and entirely due to the woes this club was suffering from long before Ange arrived..

 

[shoggy33]

We aren't just missing a few of our best players, we are missing the absolute key players to the way Ange wants us to play. I'd been saying to friends for the last few weeks that as long as VDV and Maddison stay fit, and to a lesser extent Romero, Bissouma, and Son we'll be up there, but without them we'll be f*cked. In the space of about 5 minutes in the Chelsea game we went from good to f*cked. We are simply too early in our process to be able to play without them. We just have to get behind Ange and the team for the next couple of months and hope we are still the mix for top 5 when the injured players return and the transfer window opens.

 

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

I didn’t go into the match thread for this reason, he shouldn’t be getting any ‘grief’ however questions around if starting Phillips over Dier or Davies would’ve been better today and same Q for Lo Celso over PEG are imo valid but we will never know and ultimately Ange knows better than all of us and he will have 95% of the fans long term support.

We need another 3-4 signings to improve our weak squad areas, until then when injuries to big players at LB, CB, CM and AM/ST strike we will suffer with worse performances and results and there is nothing Ange or any Manager can do about that as we know the likes of Dier, Davies etc are just not up to it.

Thought Dier and particularly Davies had good games overall. Easy to blame one or both because we lost but that is just scapegoating the usual suspects.

I’d be more inclined to think the issue was PEH over Lo Celso. Barely troubled them after the goal.

 

[chas vs dave]

Thought Dier and particularly Davies had good games overall. Easy to blame one or both because we lost but that is just scapegoating the usual suspects.

I’d be more inclined to think the issue was PEH over Lo Celso. Barely troubled them after the goal.

It's easy to blame, but dier and Davies have probably played less than 180 minutes between them all season. Match fitness could have been an issue.

 

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

It's easy to blame, but dier and Davies have probably played less than 180 minutes between them all season. Match fitness could have been an issue.

also true. goes for any player just coming in, always going to be an issue around match sharpness

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Thought Dier and particularly Davies had good games overall. Easy to blame one or both because we lost but that is just scapegoating the usual suspects.

I’d be more inclined to think the issue was PEH over Lo Celso. Barely troubled them after the goal.

To be fair you’re not far wrong I think they did ok and our bigger issue was our lack of threat and creativity after we’d scored where GLC over PEH surely would’ve helped however Dier and Davies did give the ball away a lot more than VDV & Romero do, they didn’t dominate defensively as much as those 2 go and they got caught out a bit positionally for the 2nd goal so whilst I agree they didn’t have bad games particularly I do think they caused our overall team level to drop.

 

[ajspurs]

We aren't just missing a few of our best players, we are missing the absolute key players to the way Ange wants us to play. I'd been saying to friends for the last few weeks that as long as VDV and Maddison stay fit, and to a lesser extent Romero, Bissouma, and Son we'll be up there, but without them we'll be f*cked. In the space of about 5 minutes in the Chelsea game we went from good to f*cked. We are simply too early in our process to be able to play without them. We just have to get behind Ange and the team for the next couple of months and hope we are still the mix for top 5 when the injured players return and the transfer window opens.

Yeah, I think it has to be remembered just how much the players missing unsurprisingly hamper us. It's like the equivalent to Arsenal missing Saliba, Gabriel, Odegaard, Zinchenko and Trossard.

Like you say it's too early in the process to be able to compensate for such losses and that's to be expected. Just have to get it right in the windows to come.

 

[Tezza1978]

Some moronic opposition fans saying we are making excuses after the Chelsea game........ no its not an "excuse" to have 7/8 first team starters unavailable. It's an injury and suspension led crisis - that very, very few teams ever have to deal with. Even Man City would struggle with that and they have the deepest squad depth in the Prem due to money and more importantly being able to offer Champions League football. Its not remotely realistic - or financially sensible - to sign 4 or 5 extra "top 6" level players to improve the squad and replace the remaining deadwood players we have, without offering them either 1st team football or rotation options in Europe - and anyone who thinks otherwise knows absolutely nothing about football.

I see the arguments made re playing some of the youngsters and I have sympathy for that view....but let's not pretend that that's the solution. We are still going to find it very tough until Xmas regardless. Hopefully Maddison is back by say mid/late December and Romero being back in 3 games time will help also. Big January needed with 2/3 players in early.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

We aren't just missing a few of our best players, we are missing the absolute key players to the way Ange wants us to play. I'd been saying to friends for the last few weeks that as long as VDV and Maddison stay fit, and to a lesser extent Romero, Bissouma, and Son we'll be up there, but without them we'll be f*cked. In the space of about 5 minutes in the Chelsea game we went from good to f*cked. We are simply too early in our process to be able to play without them. We just have to get behind Ange and the team for the next couple of months and hope we are still the mix for top 5 when the injured players return and the transfer window opens.

Literally 1,000% this.

 

[only1waddle]

I didn’t go into the match thread for this reason, he shouldn’t be getting any ‘grief’ however questions around if starting Phillips over Dier or Davies would’ve been better today and same Q for Lo Celso over PEG are imo valid but we will never know and ultimately Ange knows better than all of us and he will have 95% of the fans long term support.

We need another 3-4 signings to improve our weak squad areas, until then when injuries to big players at LB, CB, CM and AM/ST strike we will suffer with worse performances and results and there is nothing Ange or any Manager can do about that as we know the likes of Dier, Davies etc are just not up to it.

So either we risk some youth players or we suck it up until Romero is back and until we can address some of it in the January transfer window.

I think its the frustration of consistent issues even with decent managers, the nearly years, "we don't have the squad depth, right players for manager x" combined with us not winning a tin pot for years that makes some fans a bit bipolar or fed up, perennial new project...

 

[Sophos151]

At the start of the season I said this first season is a write off, doesn't matter where we finish as long as the football improves and the club is going in the right direction.

3 MOTM awards in a row (won't be a 4th) and I almost got pissed off with the last 2 results, but reminded myself this is still a working progress. The first 11 is almost there, but the squad depth isn't for Ange and what he needs, still needs January and summer window again to hopefully get all that sorted!

If we had said at the start of the season we would be where we are and only lost 2 and drawn 2, I would have been happy! Hopefully the injured guys gets back sooner than expected in January and the suspended players make a difference when back. Dispute the last 2 results (did say after Chelsea the injuries and suspension were worse than the result) we are still better off than when we had Jose or conte in charge.

The idea behind the season being a write off is that it’s a time to learn new systems, blood new players, and build for the future. Choosing Davies, Dier, and Hojbjerg today - and Lo Celso from the bench - goes completely against that. Why use players who have no future here ahead of the brilliant young prospects we hope will be a part of the team’s future?

That’s what frustrates me today. Not the result, but the way we got there. Players with no future here, playing the way we all knew they would, while the (hopeful) future sits on the bench.

 

[soflapaul]

At the start of the season I said this first season is a write off, doesn't matter where we finish as long as the football improves and the club is going in the right direction.

3 MOTM awards in a row (won't be a 4th) and I almost got pissed off with the last 2 results, but reminded myself this is still a working progress. The first 11 is almost there, but the squad depth isn't for Ange and what he needs, still needs January and summer window again to hopefully get all that sorted!

If we had said at the start of the season we would be where we are and only lost 2 and drawn 2, I would have been happy! Hopefully the injured guys gets back sooner than expected in January and the suspended players make a difference when back. Dispute the last 2 results (did say after Chelsea the injuries and suspension were worse than the result) we are still better off than when we had Jose or conte in charge.

Nice balanced post as ratcheting expectations can make life miserable if it isn't based on reason. We've had a great start to the Ange era but it seems to have created amnesia for a sector of the fanbase .

Some of what we are reading today is an entertaining contrast to the early part of this thread shortly after Ange signed.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think its the frustration of consistent issues even with decent managers, the nearly years, "we don't have the squad depth, right players for manager x" combined with us not winning a tin pot for years that makes some fans a bit bipolar or fed up, perennial new project...

Yep you’ve nailed it although I think we have a clear 4 year project with Ange this time and we are now only 3-4 top signings away from a very strong well rounded squad.

If we had say signed a Lloyd Kelly and he’d played today instead of Dier or Davies maybe we’d have drawn or won today who knows.

But yea completely get the sentiment and frustration, just have to hope we give Ange what he needs this Jan and next summer, if we do that we could be really rocking next season even with a similarly crazy injury and suspension crisis.

 

[only1waddle]

Yep you’ve nailed it although I think we have a clear 4 year project with Ange this time and we are now only 3-4 top signings away from a very strong well rounded squad.

If we had say signed a Lloyd Kelly and he’d played today instead of Dier or Davies maybe we’d have drawn or won today who knows.

But yea completely get the sentiment and frustration, just have to hope we give Ange what he needs this Jan and next summer, if we do that we could be really rocking next season even with a similarly crazy injury and suspension crisis.

Realistically we're about 7/8 away from a good squad if we want to give us a chance in Europe, a cup and the league, Son will be 32 soon, 2 in January, 5 outfield and a reserve keeper in the summer and we'll be looking stronger.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Realistically we're about 7/8 away from a good squad if we want to give us a chance in Europe, a cup and the league, Son will be 32 soon, 2 in January, 5 outfield and a reserve keeper in the summer and we'll be looking stronger.

Yea if we really want to go for it I agree 2 on Jan 5 next summer, although I think right now as things stand we really have 3-4 big weaknesses at CB, LB, AM and ST when key players in those positions are injured.

 

[Locotoro]

We aren't just missing a few of our best players, we are missing the absolute key players to the way Ange wants us to play. I'd been saying to friends for the last few weeks that as long as VDV and Maddison stay fit, and to a lesser extent Romero, Bissouma, and Son we'll be up there, but without them we'll be f*cked. In the space of about 5 minutes in the Chelsea game we went from good to f*cked. We are simply too early in our process to be able to play without them. We just have to get behind Ange and the team for the next couple of months and hope we are still the mix for top 5 when the injured players return and the transfer window opens.

I had zero problem with the starting line up but had a big problem with the way we pressed as a unit. Dier and Davies may not be optimal for this system but they were far from at fault.

Hojbjerg, Sarr and Biss don't get off so easily unfortunately, none of them took responsibility for the link play in the forward spaces and left the box runs to Emerson and Porro. Even with bringing on GLC and Bentancur it seemed that the game was constantly behind them instead of them being conduits to playing it forward and Gil got brushed off the ball every ... single...time.

I'm sure if you play any one of them in a stronger team and they perform admirably but put the second string in together and the drop in quality and belief in Anges system evaporates

 

[Locotoro]

Having looked at the extended highlights and the stats from the game again I think we've found the system that is likely to give us the most trouble.

Wolves played four at the back to counter our wide forwards and Son being man marked by Dawson and Gomes dropping in to make an extra CB in order to pick up the runners. When they won the ball back they focused on wide areas with Cunha and Hwang and those are the areas we vacate and the wingbacks pushed up high and wide too (doubling up in areas where we're already short) and that left Lemina as the lone link between left and right flanks.
The goals came from doubling up wide and getting into the box avoiding the mass of players we tend to keep central. With better players we deal with it but with a midfield that didn't want to go forward we were always going to struggle

 

[heinsmit]

Went to the driving range to forget the result. Couldn't.