Keane and Pav

[peter123]

What a game today but watching Keane and Pav again this year I really feel there is a gulf between them two and Crouch and Defoe.

Pav just lacks the pace to run a defender or get on the end of things when he needs do. Kolo Toure was immense but late on there was a chance Pav had that I just feel Defoe would have been first to.

Keane struggled with the pace of the game too but I see move value in keeping him (look at his positioning for the bale mis-cued header) than Pav as you just know keane can help unlock crappy teams.

Dos Santos looked poor to me, him and keane kept giving the bloody ball away, but I hope Dos Santos can deliver because we need some wide pace on the bench.

I think we can be happy with Defoe and Crouch but we need better boys, we need some quick bugger upfront that can score!!!!

 

[ohh_when_the_spurs]

Gay

 

[dynamoSpurs]

i thought Pav did alright when he came on... Two shots (one half hearted albeit) and a bloody awesome cross to Bale who should have finished.

Keane on the other hand didn't impress.

As for Dos Santos, I thought he did okay.. I counted 2 dispossessions, but could be wrong.

Main point is none of the 3 played 90 mins so I think it's difficult and unfair to judge their worth based on -20 mins of the first game into the season.

Not a Keane fan, but lets give him a bit more game time to try and impress (again) lol.

 

[LukaMotion]

What a game today but watching Keane and Pav again this year I really feel there is a gulf between them two and Crouch and Defoe.

Pav just lacks the pace to run a defender or get on the end of things when he needs do. Kolo Toure was immense but late on there was a chance Pav had that I just feel Defoe would have been first to.

Keane struggled with the pace of the game too but I see move value in keeping him (look at his positioning for the bale mis-cued header) than Pav as you just know keane can help unlock crappy teams.

Dos Santos looked poor to me, him and keane kept giving the bloody ball away, but I hope Dos Santos can deliver because we need some wide pace on the bench.

I think we can be happy with Defoe and Crouch but we need better boys, we need some quick bugger upfront that can score!!!!

If i had to name 1 asset that i think Pav has, just one, i would say it's his knack of being in the right place at the right time. He doesn't have a great deal of pace but he doesn't need it because he has the positional sense and alertness to be in the right area anyway.

There isn't a gulf of class between our strikers. In fact i'd say they are all fairly close in ability levels, hence why Harry is having such a hard time deciding which one to ship out. All our strikers offer something unique that the others don't, which is why they work so well to balance our attack.

As for Gio, i thought he played well once he came on. He was dangerous when he got on the ball ad he made some great runs off it as well.

I'm not saying we don't need a new striker by any means, it'd be top of my list, and i'm sure top of harry's as well. But if we don't get anyone who will significantly improve on what we have, is there any point? There are only a few players available who would do so, and they are going to go for mega money.

 

[TwoSaintsComeMarching]

Pav and Defoe need to start I reckon. Pav's movement and positioning is excellent. He has a knack of being in the right place at the right time. Crouch should come on as a sub to shake things up if needed.

 

[Nav420]

Pav done well when he came on i thought, if you dont shoot you dont score- thats why i like him. As for Keane i think he's unfortunately out of his depth time to move on. You can tell that Gio has come on leaps and bounds he seems to have the awareness to play this simple pass and play a more maturer game and im sure he'l be a hit this season.

 

[THOWIG]

The only striker I would keep is Crouch as he's a handful and gives us a strong option.

 

[karennina]

Pav looked likeliest and actually most eager to score, I thought.

 

[spudtrader]

Pav's movement off the ball really brings defenders out of position. Yeah he's not the fastest but i was impressed with him today, happy to come short for the pass to feet or to chase down through balls and closing the keeper.

The whole striker thing is annoying because they all have their qualities. The only reason i would be happy if we sold keane is because it would hopefully ensure a new top class striker coming in, not because i don't think Keane can do a job. Agree with the majority in that we shouldn't change any players unless its an upgrade.

 

[peter123]

Pav looked likeliest and actually most eager to score, I thought.

Eager maybe but apart from the shot from the left that he hit on the ground to the bottom left (that should have been planted in the top corner given the time he had to run onto the ball) I just feel his shots are a hopeful, no alternative sort of thing. Alot of them he simply should not be looking to shoot because the shot is not on (due to his position/body shape and the position of the ball/defenders). Basically I feel that sometimes its just desperation because of his shortcomings.

Pav does have composure but not great composure, he doesn't have berbatov composure, where he can be unpredicatable and just keep the ball until something happens around him. He doesn't have that something extra in his locker so he ends up going through the motions and I don't think when he shoots he believes he is going to score. I don't think keane is "better" than Pav, only that there are 10-15 fixtures that are going to suit keane better than Pav, and thats why I think we might be better without him.

 

[tooey]

This is bollocks to be honest. There are a lot of people who love pav because he became "the underdog". So people could see the "potensial" in him and so when he does eventually come good can sit there smugly say "I told you so".

On one occasion he received the ball in an extremely dangerous area, he had time to take a touch, then find his aim, but instead decided to hit it first time which resulted in a poor effort straight at joe hart. Its these little things with pav that really piss me off. When Defoe and crouch played we looked lively up top, in sync and bar defoes 1v1 were unlucky not to grab a couple. I really dont rate pav (but thats my opinion), in the right side he would do a good job, but he doesnt suit our quick tempo. When you have passers like hudd and modric on the pitch you need a player who can latch on to things. And neither pav nor keane is one of those player.

We need a quick direct forward (much in the same mould as defoe). Pav can link up play lovely and drops back well but with pav,keane,modric,hudd making the forward spine of our team there are too many creaters and not enough finishers. The system that we played today proves to me that what we need is an out and out forward. We have enough in the middle of the park to create chances (modric, hudd, lennon, bale, gio) . We really dont need a striker who has a poor touch, lacks vision and whos game is purely based on confidence and the sides momentum. We need a striker who can make something out of nothing, or simply out pace a centre back and put it inbetween the sticks.

Most will disagree with me, but im just calling a spade a spade.

 

[Sanj]

What a game today but watching Keane and Pav again this year I really feel there is a gulf between them two and Crouch and Defoe.

Pav just lacks the pace to run a defender or get on the end of things when he needs do. Kolo Toure was immense but late on there was a chance Pav had that I just feel Defoe would have been first to.

Keane struggled with the pace of the game too but I see move value in keeping him (look at his positioning for the bale mis-cued header) than Pav as you just know keane can help unlock crappy teams.

Dos Santos looked poor to me, him and keane kept giving the bloody ball away, but I hope Dos Santos can deliver because we need some wide pace on the bench.

I think we can be happy with Defoe and Crouch but we need better boys, we need some quick bugger upfront that can score!!!!

ARE YOU FOR REAL?????
Pav is the best finisher at the club and showed glimpses of that with his positioning and movement after coming on. Keane got involved in some good moves that led to us creating chances, but by the time he and Pav had got on our midfield had dropped far deeper therefore not affording pav and keane the support that crouch and defoe got.
Crouch - i was more impressed with today than normal but defoe looked off the pace to me - maybe due to missing pre-season games with his injury. Defoe and crouch both missed good chances (of course this will happen to all strikers) - and showed a lack of strikers instinct at times esp when bale flashed a great cross across the 6 yard box - where i'd have expected good poachers to be anticipating a cross.
That said it was a good performance today and the players will improve with match sharpness. Not many teams have as much striking variety as us - lets hope they all contribute.

 

[SpurSince57]

If i had to name 1 asset that i think Pav has, just one, i would say it's his knack of being in the right place at the right time. He doesn't have a great deal of pace but he doesn't need it because he has the positional sense and alertness to be in the right area anyway.

There isn't a gulf of class between our strikers. In fact i'd say they are all fairly close in ability levels, hence why Harry is having such a hard time deciding which one to ship out. All our strikers offer something unique that the others don't, which is why they work so well to balance our attack.

As for Gio, i thought he played well once he came on. He was dangerous when he got on the ball ad he made some great runs off it as well.

I'm not saying we don't need a new striker by any means, it'd be top of my list, and i'm sure top of harry's as well. But if we don't get anyone who will significantly improve on what we have, is there any point? There are only a few players available who would do so, and they are going to go for mega money.

So did (and does) Bentinho, who's a more consistent finisher. The fact that he's a klutz who can't do a great deal else is irrelevant in this context (although, alarmingly, he created far more chances than Pav in 08-09). If Crouch could finish like Bent we'd be laughing all the way to the bank.

What we have is what we've had for several seasons now; strikers who can, between them, get a very respectable tally.

05-06: 36/53
06-07: 34/57
07-08: 40/66
08-09: 26/45
09-10: 37/67

Apart from the blip in 08-09, which can be ascribed to a number of factors, that's remarkably consistent (and if the sums are wrong, sorry, it's late, I've been enjoying a rather good Burgundy, and I don't think they can be that far out).

The idea of getting in an über-striker who can knock in 20+ a season is hugely appealing, but far easier said than done. And do we want to find ourselves reliant on one striker? What would have happened in 2005-2006 if Henry had got seriously crocked halfway through the season? We'd have finished comfortably fourth, that's what.

 

[Monkey Bastard Hands]

What a game today but watching Keane and Pav again this year I really feel there is a gulf between them two and Crouch and Defoe.

Pav just lacks the pace to run a defender or get on the end of things when he needs do. Kolo Toure was immense but late on there was a chance Pav had that I just feel Defoe would have been first to.

Keane struggled with the pace of the game too but I see move value in keeping him (look at his positioning for the bale mis-cued header) than Pav as you just know keane can help unlock crappy teams.

Dos Santos looked poor to me, him and keane kept giving the bloody ball away, but I hope Dos Santos can deliver because we need some wide pace on the bench.

I think we can be happy with Defoe and Crouch but we need better boys, we need some quick bugger upfront that can score!!!!

It's amazing how different peoples views can be!

I thought Gio looked good today, much more lively then Lennon and I thought he added more in his 15 minutes than Lennon did in the whole game.

I don't get why strikers have to have pace in order to be good? As someone has said on here already, Pav tends to have the knack of being in the right place at the right time. He has an excellent footballing brain and what he lacks in pace he more than makes up for it in positioning and reading the game. The only criticism I have is that he expects the perfect ball every time and moans when he doesn't get it.

With regard to the pace thing, Teddy Sheringham never had pace but he's a legend - he couldn't unlock the defence with his pace but he would know exactly where to be to score. Pav might not be as prolific as Ted Shez but in terms of intelligence and skill I think he's in the same league.

I thought Keane did a good job when he came on today. He might have been out of position once or twice, but lets face it Defoe and Crouch weren't exactly on top form today either. The thing I noticed most about Keane was his continuous pressing and chasing of the opposition, a number of times he forced them to play backwards. Defoe and Crouch tend not to do this as much.

I do think we're lacking that killer, world class striker. On their days any of our 4 could do the job but they don't do it often enough sadly.

 

[SpurSince57]

ARE YOU FOR REAL?????
Pav is the best finisher at the club and showed glimpses of that with his positioning and movement after coming on. Keane got involved in some good moves that led to us creating chances, but by the time he and Pav had got on our midfield had dropped far deeper therefore not affording pav and keane the support that crouch and defoe got.
Crouch - i was more impressed with today than normal but defoe looked off the pace to me - maybe due to missing pre-season games with his injury. Defoe and crouch both missed good chances (of course this will happen to all strikers) - and showed a lack of strikers instinct at times esp when bale flashed a great cross across the 6 yard box - where i'd have expected good poachers to be anticipating a cross.
That said it was a good performance today and the players will improve with match sharpness. Not many teams have as much striking variety as us - lets hope they all contribute.

On what criteria are you basing this opinion?

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Different strikers for different situations blah blah blah, but I actually felt that Pavlyuchenko looked far more dangerous and likely to score than Crouch did, and Keane actually linked up very nicely with both Giovani and Modric on a couple of occasions and was involved in a lot of good play, with Crouch and Defoe having been very quite since about ten minutes before half time.

I reckon we'd be best served to bring in a top quality striker if possible, with one of Keane and Pavlyuchenko being replaced, purely because Defoe is on current evidence our best goalscorer, and Crouch is the only striker we have who, as Thowig says, there is not another like him. However, if we cannot find an obvious improvement on either Keane or Pavlyuchenko, then I am more than happy for both to stay.

 

[ShelfSide18]

I know he is an SC taboo subject, but I'd kill to have Berba back.

 

[kaz Hirai]

i like keane but if i had to ship one of them out to make room for a much needed top class striker then it would probably be him simply because i think gio can play in the keane role

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I know he is an SC taboo subject, but I'd kill to have Berba back.

Completely agree with that, I'd drive him down myself.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Completely agree with that, I'd drive him down myself.

Shotgun front seat.