Jose Mourinho

[Busstop]

Is this a known fact? And, do you have the names in the different groups?

All speculation to support his hypothesis

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Is this a known fact? And, do you have the names in the different groups?

I’m assuming these are rhetorical questions because you know I cannot answer that definitively. I can tell you though it’s pretty obvious when you see what we do on the pitch.

 

[Metalhead]

A couple of games ago I said I thought his chopping and changing at CB might be him sending a message to Levy and Hitchin. Now I am convinced this is exactly what he is doing. And it has resulted in us plummeting down the table. Poor management.

Silly time to do it if true as it's months until it can be resolved.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

All speculation to support his hypothesis

Anyone who watches our team play football can see that. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure it out for yourself. And once again, my comments are being cherry picked instead of argued as a whole.

 

[ZiggySpurs]

I’m still someone who is Jose in, but also am aware of tangible evidence that has rightly led some to be Jose out. I think because I still see a team fighting for the manager and still have important matches to play on 3 fronts, that he should be given more time to turn it around.

I recognize the quality of the squad and do think he should be doing more, but I also see reasons, not excuses behind the poor results. I really do think the heart of defence lacks serious quality/consistency/reliability. This area of the team might be the most important in any squad, and it’s a major weakness. Jose picks them though and needs to find the best pairing, even though I believe every pairing will be flawed more than many clubs for one reason or another.

There’s still a lot to play for, which wasn’t the case at this point last year. I think it’s most important that we all are open to having our views challenged and changed. We’re all Tottenham fans, and we all want what’s best for the club. We have different viewpoints on how that is achieved, but stubbornly refusing to be open to the possibility of having someone/something change your mind is not the way to go about conversation with others. Try to help others understand your views calmly, and let yourself be open to others’ views altering the way you see things. It’s better when we’re all receptive and kind to others.

Yeah this sums up where I think I'm at atm. I think lots of people can agree to give him until the end of the season at this point, especially while we're still in a couple of competitions, but I do understand that things need to change on the pitch and perhaps the most suitable/easiest shake up would be a new manager with a new philosophy. I'm hoping that our current squad and manager can turn things around, or at least stop the rot until the end of the season. And that's not so I can chime in and say "I told you so!" but because I'd feel so disappointed if after Mourinho's tenure here we come out of it with no silverware to show for after he's done it at every other club.

Also on another note, I didn't particularly dislike yesterday's performance. I thought we looked more positive than other recent matches and on another day Bale's crossbar shot and several others would have gone in and we wouldn't be where we are now. In isolation, I wouldn't be too upset with the result considering West Ham are (unfortunately) in very hot form these days. My problem is that it's not in isolation with our recent results and we really need to rack points up as we near the tail end of our season.

Edit: Actually scratch that I'd probably still be upset just because J-Lingz Jesse Ellis Lingard was allowed to celebrate his one goal twice. The little bastard.

 

[SpartanSpur]

There are players that are the problem. Did Poch make mistakes and lose the dressing room? Yes. Is Mourinho likely doing the same? Probably. But let’s put them aside for one second here.

How mentally weak do you have to be to not show up for a CL final. To not show up for a derby against Chelsea/West Ham. To not show up or give any effort for 8 out of 10 games. To not show up for 70 mins of a game then light the world on fire for the last 20. There is a deep lying mentality issue here. Not a coaching issue. Not a technical (player attribute) issue in some cases. These things happened under BOTH managers from the SAME set of players.

They should fight, even bleed for that badge. PEH is the epitome of this kind of player. Son, Kane, Lamela, GLC, Ndombele, Tanganga, Bergwijn, Hart (sue me he knows how to lead) and Davies have all shown they have some fight in their belly.

This is not about having 11 world class players on the field. Not one of us have ever said that. This is about having 11 players who would kill to be on the pitch and give their all. Not 5 or 6. And I say 5 or 6 because we haven’t had the full set of fighters available due to injuries this season. But I’m sure You can catch my drift.

What we have is a dressing room split by the two types of players. This causes a group issue because one half is working harder than the other. But both are being punished because the collective isn’t moving in the right direction.

Let’s hope either things change drastically over the next few games or even if we do end up sacking JM, that a new manager could come in and kill this mentality off.

I do appreciate that but surely every club up and down the country has similar differences in personality and mentality. It can't be unique to us.

We have a results manager and the results have not been good enough.

 

[Betha]

I’m assuming these are rhetorical questions because you know I cannot answer that definitively. I can tell you though it’s pretty obvious when you see what we do on the pitch.

Not really. You presented this as a fact. And as I had not seen that before I got curious. But, It seems like it wasn't the fact that you presented it to be.

 

[Japhet]

There are players that are the problem. Did Poch make mistakes and lose the dressing room? Yes. Is Mourinho likely doing the same? Probably. But let’s put them aside for one second here.

How mentally weak do you have to be to not show up for a CL final. To not show up for a derby against Chelsea/West Ham. To not show up or give any effort for 8 out of 10 games. To not show up for 70 mins of a game then light the world on fire for the last 20. There is a deep lying mentality issue here. Not a coaching issue. Not a technical (player attribute) issue in some cases. These things happened under BOTH managers from the SAME set of players.

They should fight, even bleed for that badge. PEH is the epitome of this kind of player. Son, Kane, Lamela, GLC, Ndombele, Tanganga, Bergwijn, Hart (sue me he knows how to lead) and Davies have all shown they have some fight in their belly.

This is not about having 11 world class players on the field. Not one of us have ever said that. This is about having 11 players who would kill to be on the pitch and give their all. Not 5 or 6. And I say 5 or 6 because we haven’t had the full set of fighters available due to injuries this season. But I’m sure You can catch my drift.

What we have is a dressing room split by the two types of players. This causes a group issue because one half is working harder than the other. But both are being punished because the collective isn’t moving in the right direction.

Let’s hope either things change drastically over the next few games or even if we do end up sacking JM, that a new manager could come in and kill this mentality off.

What catagory would you put Dier in? I'd say he's as much of a fighter as any in our squad but his problem is that Mourinho (who's always had a hard on for him) keeps picking him when his confidence is shot, primarily as a result of having had to play backs to the wall football for 70-80% of most matches.

 

[GutBucket]

You can't compare Poch's

I think something being missed as far as style of play is that since Jose arrived we've pretty much been playing a game every 3-4 days and had no real pre season in between the two seasons. When you consider there will be a day of rest after the games, then a day prep for the next match it doesn't leave a lot of time to learn much new stuff. Not to mention all the covid related rules and regs. Hardly comparable to Klopps start at Pool.

The results are poor no doubt, but he's not had the crack of the whip new managers in normal times always get.

It's same with Moyes but his team is doing way better with a worse squad. Ancelotti was hired at similar time and same story. Arteta managed to change the way they play in short time too. Special One should be able to do a lot better than all of them (except maybe Ancelotti who has similar reputation).

 

[SpartanSpur]

To be honest we don't really have a choice anyway.

I don't see any temporary coach coming in and lifting this team. Maybe we get the typical new manager bounce but after 5 or 6 games it'd likely revert to type and that coach probably isn't a specialist in cup ties either, something Jose may still prove to have competence in.

The names been thrown around;

Benitez - No thank you! He is not the coach for this job, he's reactive and from the same kind of pool as Jose. He wouldn't have an assault on the top 4 and I think his managerial style is to be distant from the players.

Redknapp - give me a break. He downed tools many years ago and hasn't been in football for a while. He traded all that for the celebrity lifestyle.

Mason - Just, no! Love Ryan but he was a youth player under Lloris, Kane, Toby, etc - they wouldn't take him seriously.

King - Again, no. King has no experience as a coach and he also seems quite timid in situations. Maybe in future but he'd need to learn somewhere else.

Hughton - I like Hughton but he's quite defensive and again no success in big ties.

Allegri - Wouldn't come on a temporary basis

Sarri - Wouldn't come on a temporary basis.

I may have missed some but the club would need to take the hit and approach the summer with a refresh.

Two options;

Allegri - Go with a winner who may be able to raise the level, keep Bale and try bring in a quality CB/CM for him to work with.

or

Nagelsmann/Rodgers - Go with a coach who'll focus on the youth and will be happy to take players under the radar/potential

But we've backed ourselves into a corner here where firing Jose won't make too much difference, mostly cause there's no-one really available right now.

I think this is what will keep him in a job until the summer. I imagine Levy is currently looking very seriously at replacements and only if one of his top ones (my guess is Nagelsmann, Allegri or Rodgers) says they'll join now will he chop Jose.

That said he will have nowhere to hide if he doesn't win at least two of the upcoming games against Burnley, Leicester or Palace IMO.

 

[muppetman]

Edit: Actually scratch that I'd probably still be upset just because J-Lingz was allowed to celebrate his one goal twice. The little bastard.

Is this a bannable offense????

 

[brasil_spur]

I think this is what will keep him in a job until the summer. I imagine Levy is currently looking very seriously at replacements and only if one of his top ones (my guess is Nagelsmann, Allegri or Rodgers) says they'll join now will he chop Jose.

That said he will have nowhere to hide if he doesn't win at least two of the upcoming games against Burnley, Leicester or Palace IMO.

I think Jose will be given enough leash until one of the two following things happens:

- We get knocked out of EL
- We drop close to the relegation zone in the PL

If we win the Carabao Cup then I think he'll stay regardless of EL progress as long as we're not in the relegation zone.

 

[VegasII]

Is this a bannable offense????

A jailings offence, no?

 

[King of Otters]

You can't compare Poch's

I think something being missed as far as style of play is that since Jose arrived we've pretty much been playing a game every 3-4 days and had no real pre season in between the two seasons. When you consider there will be a day of rest after the games, then a day prep for the next match it doesn't leave a lot of time to learn much new stuff. Not to mention all the covid related rules and regs. Hardly comparable to Klopps start at Pool.

The results are poor no doubt, but he's not had the crack of the whip new managers in normal times always get.

And yet, Ancelloti seems to have done a fine job in building a functioning team at Everton, with fewer resources at his disposal and an inferior squad.

Tuchel has also managed to impose his style on Chelsea in all of about five games.

 

[ZiggySpurs]

Is this a bannable offense????

A jailings offence, no?

I've put in a second sly edit to avoid the ban-hammer.

 

[Trix]

It's same with Moyes but his team is doing way better with a worse squad. Ancelotti was hired at similar time and same story. Arteta managed to change the way they play in short time too. Special One should be able to do a lot better than all of them (except maybe Ancelotti who has similar reputation).

Except it's not the same because Moyes hasn't had Europe and the added fixture congestion/less training time, and neither did Ancelotti when he took over.

 

[Styopa]

That said he will have nowhere to hide if he doesn't win at least two of the upcoming games against Burnley, Leicester or Palace IMO.

I think our next 4 matches are Burnley (H), Fulham (A), Palace (H), Arsenal (A)?

Difficult to see us getting more than 5 or 6 points from that lot. Even that's probably optimistic - it would certainly represent a real upturn in form if we do get anything more than 4 points. Over the last few months we've been averaging about 0.85 points a game.

 

[mil1lion]

Klopp's first season was actually very similar to our current season:
Liverpool finished 8th in the league, behind Southampton and West Ham. They were 9th with 35 points and -4 goal difference (32 GF / 36 GA), and had won only one of their last five games - with 25 games played and no games in hand. With a squad that had finished 2nd in the league two years earlier.
We are currently 9th with 36 points and +10 goal difference (37 GF / 27 GA), and have won only one of our last five games - with 24 games played and a game in hand on over half the teams in the league. With a squad that finished 4th two years ago.

I'm not suggesting that our current form is acceptable, but Liverpool's form at the start of Klopp's reign was no better.

Interesting. I guess I wasn't paying much attention to them at the time. I do think Jose will get until the summer. If he wins a trophy that will buy him the extra start of next season. I just hope that he A identifies that the likes of Dier and Sanchez need to be sold and B the board get suitable replacements. Although I'm not sure how Klopps Liverpool were doing 18 months in and I also think we were doing better 18 months into Poch's time. I expect to see more at this point

 

[Trix]

And yet, Ancelloti seems to have done a fine job in building a functioning team at Everton, with fewer resources at his disposal and an inferior squad.

Tuchel has also managed to impose his style on Chelsea in all of about five games.

Not sure why you'd even bother quoting or responding to one of my posts if i'm honest. I mean in your own words, I just make stuff up to get likes on the internet.

 

[GutBucket]

Except it's not the same because Moyes hasn't had Europe and the added fixture congestion/less training time, and neither did Ancelotti when he took over.

Arteta has it and he changed the way they play. Their team is worse, have a rookie coach and they are probably our biggest rivals for league position. Fixture congestion can be difference with top 4 and 6, not top 4 and mid-table. Pochettino had fixture congestion, no home court, half the team on World Cup who didn't have proper preseason, shit luck with injuries and apparently players didn't like him anymore but he still got CL finals and top 4. Running out of excuses now.