Jose Mourinho

[austinfh]

It’s quite difficult to win matches when your entire game plan is based on getting the back to one of two players and seeing what they do with it, especially if one of those two players is injured...

 

[ohtottenham!]

He may be failing, but he's failing because the group he has are weak-minded and entitled and they refuse to put their own wants and desires below those of the wider objective and no manager will be able to get them to do the work.

He's failing alright! We're failing as a club. We can see it on the pitch. There may be some weak-minded and entitled stuff going on with Jose too here; also, his refusing to put his own wants and desires below those of the wider objective. He's also the manager! The problems go deeper than Jose and the squad/players obviously.

I'd just like to see some good football, which this squad is capable of, despite its deficiencies...in all areas of the pitch. I'm not seeing enough evidence of Jose adapting to those realities to help us as a team. There could be many reasons for that.

 

[Styopa]

Bloody hell, I think about 80% of posts are from the same 5 or 6 people repeating the same stuff - is this what furlough does?

I think the huge, gigantic gulf in people's expectations of what Mourinho would bring, which has existed since he came to the club, fuels a highly divisive atmosphere in here. You literally have people who believe he is the best, most ambitious managerial appointment we have ever made versus people who think he is one of the very worst managerial appointments we have ever made. And some people are so invested in their own position that almost nothing that could ever happen will change their view. That doesn't make for a very nuanced discussion.

 

[rez9000]

Yeah really. I could always see a plan with Poch’s team, even if the players weren’t always able to implement it. Beyond sitting deep and looking for Kane to Son I see no plan from Jose. Even when we were picking up results the football was awful. It just leaves me empty and numb. I never had these feelings with a Poch team - it was more just frustration that players would miss a final pass or get caught on the counter after a sustained attack. Now we just look like lambs to the slaughter.

Players looking shit scared with no fans in the stadium can only come from the manager. He’s created a culture where players are scared to make mistakes through fear of being dropped or thrown under the bus in the media. Yes, people can say the players shouldn’t be so weak minded, but there is a reason a lot of the modern day managers aren’t so hard line. You need to adapt and realise this style of man management doesn’t work as well now a days.

Saying all this I still don’t want Mourinho sacked, yet. If we fail to get a win against West Brom then I think his position will be untenable.

But if one applies just the tiniest amount of logic, it suggests the opposite of what you're saying about patterns of play and so forth.

Is it feasible to imagine that a manager with that much success is deliberately not coaching his players?

Not saying you specifically, but just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there. Not saying it in a derogatory way, but you're (or me or anyone else) is hardly expert in those things, so our inability to see something isn't particularly weighty evidence.

Plus you have the further issue with the fact that we have players who don't seem to give a shit. Isn't it therefore more likely that he is trying to implement these things but that they players simply don't give enough of a crap to do it in any meaningful way. Attacking wise, the player who's committed and has the requisite skill to do things is Kane. We play a lot better when he's in the side.

That, to me, suggests that there are plans for attacking but that we need players committed to the cause to implement it. It also explains why Sonny has looked bereft without Kane - his own effort needs someone alongside him to do it too.

I've seen so many times people say, 'it's just lump it to Kane and hope for the best'. Come on, does that really survive even the tiniest application of logic?

 

[Spurzinho]

What year are you living in? ‘Turning boys into men’? You have about five international captains in the first team. Is it them or the dinosaur in charge leading them astray and sapping their creativity.

Would you be happy at work if you did nothing but spreadsheets all day?

Especially if you were hired for your creative ability. Especially if focusing on spreadsheets all day was seeing your teams productivity nosedive. Especially if you were given formal warnings and humiliated in front of the entire company every time you were caught doing anything other than spreadsheets.

 

[rez9000]

He's failing alright! We're failing as a club. We can see it on the pitch. There may be some weak-minded and entitled stuff going on with Jose too here; also, his refusing to put his own wants and desires below those of the wider objective. He's also the manager! The problems go deeper than Jose and the squad/players obviously.

I'd just like to see some good football, which this squad is capable of, despite its deficiencies...in all areas of the pitch. I'm not seeing enough evidence of Jose adapting to those realities to help us as a team. There could be many reasons for that.

He's the manager. It's his job to decide what the wider objective is. Not to agree on it by committee. A football club isn't a democracy. It's not supposed to be a fucking pluralistic commune with an Adjunct Subcommittee on Attacking Tactics that meets quarterly as long as it's quorate, for crying out loud!

He sets the direction of travel, they obey. It is as simple as that.

 

[muppetman]

I think the huge, gigantic gulf in people's expectations of what Mourinho would bring, which has existed since he came to the club, fuels a highly divisive atmosphere in here. You literally have people who believe he is the best, most ambitious managerial appointment we have ever made versus people who think he is one of the very worst managerial appointments we have ever made. And some people are so invested in their own position that almost nothing that could ever happen will change their view. That doesn't make for a very nuanced discussion.

I totally agree, it just makes reading through the thread a bit of a chore.

 

[Metalhead]

Is it Jose's fault? or the players fault? in the end its a sub plot. Its Jose's responsibility. The Manager always goes before the players.

This exactly. I always felt that Jose deserved a chance and despite the grumblings over tactics and player selections, people should remember that at the end of the day, he bears ultimate responsibility so therefore people should accept that those are his decisions.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Again, we had been on top for more than a week so what you said is still factually incorrect.

The point I made was that it obviously worked for a while from the start of the season until end of the year. I understand your frustration with Jose but please don’t tried to change the fact.

Bizarre wordsmithery but if it makes you feel happier I'll day that it worked for 2 weeks.

That's as far as I'll go.

But on the actual point...he's bloody awful and needs to go.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I totally agree, it just makes reading through the thread a bit of a chore.

If it's the same 5 or 6 posters and to boot it's a chore, why bother reading, you'll know what you'll get, no?

 

[ohtottenham!]

He's the manager. It's his job to decide what the wider objective is. Not to agree on it by committee. A football club isn't a democracy. It's not supposed to be a fucking pluralistic commune with an Adjunct Subcommittee on Attacking Tactics that meets quarterly as long as it's quorate, for crying out loud!

He sets the direction of travel, they obey. It is as simple as that.

Maybe we should hire Trump next then. Hear he's not working right now. This is getting silly.

 

[muppetman]

If it's the same 5 or 6 posters and to boot it's a chore, why bother reading, you'll know what you'll get, no?

How could I be a Spurs fan if I wasn't an eternal optimist? Like with Spurs I keep hoping for better and just like Spurs. . .

It's fine people, need to vent and it was a mistake of mine to read through the last 6 or 8 pages - I should just learn to skip.

 

[Spartanspurs]

I think the huge, gigantic gulf in people's expectations of what Mourinho would bring, which has existed since he came to the club, fuels a highly divisive atmosphere in here. You literally have people who believe he is the best, most ambitious managerial appointment we have ever made versus people who think he is one of the very worst managerial appointments we have ever made. And some people are so invested in their own position that almost nothing that could ever happen will change their view. That doesn't make for a very nuanced discussion.

I generally agree with this. However, I was in neither. I wasn't thrilled initially but after thinking about it I could see the idea behind the important and really started to believe we might win something.

Last season we let a lot go because things had got very poor before he got here. This season the performances have been mixed to poor but initially results were keeping us optimistic with the belief the performances would improve over time. However, over time the performances have dropped off a cliff and our play style etc have not earned Jose any good will from the fans. So I think most people who started neutral are at least on the way to the station, if not already on the Jose out train.

 

[rez9000]

Maybe we should hire Trump next then. Hear he's not working right now. This is getting silly.

Uh-huh. Right. Moving on.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

How could I be a Spurs fan if I wasn't an eternal optimist? Like with Spurs I keep hoping for better and just like Spurs. . .

It's fine people, need to vent and it was a mistake of mine to read through the last 6 or 8 pages - I should just learn to skip.

Hope springs eternal.

 

[spursfan77]

Because of new rules you cannot approach a manager of another club mid season . So that leaves the interim manager as a way forward .
My choice would be Harry Redknapp at least it would not be like watching paint dry .

People keep saying Redknapp but he’s done in football. He’s a tv personality now. Last year he opened a block of toilets in hamworthy that had been closed for 5 years. Honestly he was good for us but he’s not in the game any more.

 

[E17yid]

i bet @scat1620 is laughing his arse off at all of us.

 

[commodoreLUNGE]

You raise some good points. I agree that what Poch did will be a contributory cause, as I've stated myself elsewhere.

The problem isn't what's causing them to do it - the problem is that they do it at all. This group has characters in it that feel it's appropriate to act in a fashion that will get the manager fired, damaging their own prospects of success as well as the manager's and the club's. No matter what's gone on, there's a line that can't be crossed.

Dele's been 'mistreated'? Because he got a bollocking? Alex Ferguson assaulted David Beckham during a half-time team talk. Remember the boot incident and the plaster over the eye photo? Beckham went for Ferguson in the dressing room and had to be held back. Did the rest of the squad down tools? No. They won the league that season.

He may be failing, but he's failing because the group he has are weak-minded and entitled and they refuse to put their own wants and desires below those of the wider objective and no manager will be able to get them to do the work. If I had my druthers, all the pre-Mourinho players would be shipped out and replaced, because it's all them.

EDIT: Also, isn't it funny how no one mentions Danny Rose and his freeze-out? No one weeps for Danny's career (not that I feel anyone should). No one questions Mourinho's man-management style when it comes to him.

You likewise raise some good points and therefore I’d like to share my view on some of them, which clearly is founded in the fact that I disagree fundamentally with who’s to blame for this mess, but simultaneously respecting that your views are equally as valid as mine. I’m not trying to tell you that you’re wrong, just that I see things differently.

The squad not downing tools after the David Beckham incident may or may not be to do with professionalism. None of us will ever know. I would suspect that it is highly likely that the rest of the squad had such a strong relationship with Ferguson, that it didn’t undermine their own confidence and trust in him. Many of them may have had a better relationship with Fergie than they did with Beckham.

I cannot agree with the assertion that the group are weak-minded in such generalised terms. Many of these players were here during Poch in his pomp, and one characteristic of the squad was resilience, and fight until the end, we never looked out of the game until the final whistle, the game against Swansea was an epitome of that. If we’ve replaced players with more weak minded ones, Jose has bought many of them and has to take responsibility there.

Mistreatment of Dele is perhaps a little strong, but definitely mismanaged, and there is likely a thin line between the two that may or may not have been crossed behind closed doors.

Finally, with Danny Rose, I imagine he burned a lot of his bridges with a lot of players a long time ago with some of his antics, and thus, they don’t have a relationship with him to care either way how Mourinho treats him. They may feel he deserves his treatment where others do not.

 

[Spurzinho]

West Ham play better football than us ffs

Under David f*****g Moyes of all people.

At this rate we'll finished behind West. Ham. United! That's how rotten things have gotten.

 

[SpartanSpur]

I think there are more than enough people in here who were excited about the idea of Mourinho and hoped he would be the answer and have turned now (myself included) for the narrative to still be that only those that never wanted him are in the Jose out camp.

Any reasonable person can only defend someone for so long when the things you were arguing against are being proven more correct with every game that passes.